UCLA $10k or NU Sticker

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

UCLA OR Dream School (Northwestern)

Poll ended at Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:04 am

UCLA
25
44%
Northwestern
32
56%
 
Total votes: 57

LALALAND12
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UCLA $10k or NU Sticker

Postby LALALAND12 » Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:04 am

After visiting all the law schools that I applied to, I found northwestern to be my dream school. I am from LA and would like to practice in CA in the future. Career-wise I'd like to get a clerkship, work in big law and then potentially go in house somewhere. If I go to UCLA I will live with my boyfriend and commute, he'll likely be "supporting" me, he's currently in big law. Northwestern will be sticker and I have no ties to chicago. While it probably makes most financial sense to go to UCLA, northwestern was my #1... but I don't know if 3 rankings or T14 title is worth 240K+interest in loans, and emotional stress. Where should I go if I want clerkship/biglaw in LA.. and is UCLA not well received east of the mississippi?

NJPitcher
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Re: UCLA $10k or NU Sticker

Postby NJPitcher » Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:24 am

Would your bf move with you, or is he LA big law? And is that 10k/yr, or 10k total? And would you work east of the Mississippi, or are you pretty set on cal long term?

Seems like if your bf is already cal biglaw, he'll probably have some valuable CA connections for you by the time you're looking - it seems like depending on where you are in life UCLA is a viable option, even with the small price difference.

LALALAND12
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Re: UCLA $10k or NU Sticker

Postby LALALAND12 » Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:00 am

NJPitcher wrote:Would your bf move with you, or is he LA big law? And is that 10k/yr, or 10k total? And would you work east of the Mississippi, or are you pretty set on cal long term?

Seems like if your bf is already cal biglaw, he'll probably have some valuable CA connections for you by the time you're looking - it seems like depending on where you are in life UCLA is a viable option, even with the small price difference.



spoke to a UCLA student, its need based aid so I'll likely be getting it per year. financial situations won't be changing. Bf is in CA big law and cannot move.. and I don't see myself moving east.. although thats one of the reasons why I'd like this mini experience living somewhere other than CA.

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dietcoke0
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Re: UCLA $10k or NU Sticker

Postby dietcoke0 » Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:23 am

You're doing it wrong. Marry the B/F and use his biglaw salary to fund your art career.



But take UCLA if you want Cali. Plus no housing. Chicago going to add 12k a year in housing, so you looking at 66k for staying in Cali.

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PennBull
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Re: UCLA $10k or NU Sticker

Postby PennBull » Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:08 am

A question you should ask yourself is, what if you don't get biglaw, period? Northwestern gives you a much better shot at that.

You must consider if you would take Chicago/Not-LA Biglaw over a non-biglaw job in Los Angeles, in the unfortunate (but very possible) scenario that you miss the LA biglaw boat from UCLA.

LALALAND12
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Re: UCLA $10k or NU Sticker

Postby LALALAND12 » Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:59 pm

PennBull wrote:A question you should ask yourself is, what if you don't get biglaw, period? Northwestern gives you a much better shot at that.

You must consider if you would take Chicago/Not-LA Biglaw over a non-biglaw job in Los Angeles, in the unfortunate (but very possible) scenario that you miss the LA biglaw boat from UCLA.


I would probably prefer to do non-biglaw job in LA... because once again living expenses out in chicago would probably eat up all my big law money.. but thats the fear.. that if i went to NU and had to take care of the 240k debt.. i would HAVE to take any big law i could get...

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PennBull
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Re: UCLA $10k or NU Sticker

Postby PennBull » Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:08 pm

LALALAND12 wrote:
PennBull wrote:A question you should ask yourself is, what if you don't get biglaw, period? Northwestern gives you a much better shot at that.

You must consider if you would take Chicago/Not-LA Biglaw over a non-biglaw job in Los Angeles, in the unfortunate (but very possible) scenario that you miss the LA biglaw boat from UCLA.


I would probably prefer to do non-biglaw job in LA... because once again living expenses out in chicago would probably eat up all my big law money.. but thats the fear.. that if i went to NU and had to take care of the 240k debt.. i would HAVE to take any big law i could get...


Your debt at UCLA would be how much? 150k? That's not something very easily paid off without biglaw, either.

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Doorkeeper
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Re: UCLA $10k or NU Sticker

Postby Doorkeeper » Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:25 pm

Use your Northwestern acceptance to negotiate more money from UCLA.

You're still going into debt a minimum of around $100k for UCLA (assuming you live with the BF). That's not pocket change. TLS wisdom is that you need to be top third at UCLA for LA biglaw.

LALALAND12
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Re: UCLA $10k or NU Sticker

Postby LALALAND12 » Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:41 pm

Doorkeeper wrote:Use your Northwestern acceptance to negotiate more money from UCLA.

You're still going into debt a minimum of around $100k for UCLA (assuming you live with the BF). That's not pocket change. TLS wisdom is that you need to be top third at UCLA for LA biglaw.


I was unable to negotiate for more. good friend and rising 2L at Ucla said top 40% got summers... Northwestern will be 100k more..

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PennBull
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Re: UCLA $10k or NU Sticker

Postby PennBull » Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:05 pm

LALALAND12 wrote:
Doorkeeper wrote:Use your Northwestern acceptance to negotiate more money from UCLA.

You're still going into debt a minimum of around $100k for UCLA (assuming you live with the BF). That's not pocket change. TLS wisdom is that you need to be top third at UCLA for LA biglaw.


I was unable to negotiate for more. good friend and rising 2L at Ucla said top 40% got summers... Northwestern will be 100k more..


If you're unwilling to work in biglaw outside of LA, I wouldn't do either option. I would pay sticker for Northwestern for biglaw in general, but not if I was forced to limit myself to a certain geographic location. It's not just "3 rankings" and a T14 label--Northwestern has a significantly higher biglaw placement due to the self-selected nature of the student body.

I wouldn't pay 150k for UCLA with the pressure of finishing top 40% or 33%.

Dman
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Re: UCLA $10k or NU Sticker

Postby Dman » Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:08 pm

LALALAND12 wrote:I was unable to negotiate for more. good friend and rising 2L at Ucla said top 40% got summers


Yeah not sure where they made that number up from unless your definition of summers is any job and not specifically Biglaw which appears to be implied here. At top 40% you might make the minimum cut off to bid on some of lower V100s but the chance of getting a SA is extremely low unless you have some amazing pre-law school skills/experience.

attractive_NUisance
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Re: UCLA $10k or NU Sticker

Postby attractive_NUisance » Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:33 pm

Class of 2010 UCLA Law: law firms 100+ attorneys = 39% of class.

http://www.law.ucla.edu/career-services ... stics.aspx

Class of 2010 NU Law: law firms 100+ attorneys = 57% of class.

http://www.law.northwestern.edu/career/ ... /2010.html

LALALAND12
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Re: UCLA $10k or NU Sticker

Postby LALALAND12 » Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:13 pm

attractive_NUisance wrote:Class of 2010 UCLA Law: law firms 100+ attorneys = 39% of class.

http://www.law.ucla.edu/career-services ... stics.aspx

Class of 2010 NU Law: law firms 100+ attorneys = 57% of class.

http://www.law.northwestern.edu/career/ ... /2010.html


am I reading this top link incorrectly? It seems like UCLA did pretty well... better than i thought. But obviously northwestern is by far wayyyy better and has more flexibility in terms of markets

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sunynp
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Re: UCLA $10k or NU Sticker

Postby sunynp » Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:25 pm

LALALAND12 wrote:
PennBull wrote:A question you should ask yourself is, what if you don't get biglaw, period? Northwestern gives you a much better shot at that.

You must consider if you would take Chicago/Not-LA Biglaw over a non-biglaw job in Los Angeles, in the unfortunate (but very possible) scenario that you miss the LA biglaw boat from UCLA.


I would probably prefer to do non-biglaw job in LA... because once again living expenses out in chicago would probably eat up all my big law money.. but thats the fear.. that if i went to NU and had to take care of the 240k debt.. i would HAVE to take any big law i could get...


You are tied to California. There is no reason to uproot yourself to go to Northwestern. If you don't want or need biglaw, then don't put yourself in a position where you must have biglaw to repay loans. Living with your bf and getting that emotional support is worth a lot as well.

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Elston Gunn
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Re: UCLA $10k or NU Sticker

Postby Elston Gunn » Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:31 pm

What about big money at UCI? Is that an option? I can see why you wouldn't want NU sticker, but even that much debt at UCLA is dangerous.

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sunynp
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Re: UCLA $10k or NU Sticker

Postby sunynp » Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:34 pm

Elston Gunn wrote:What about big money at UCI? Is that an option? I can see why you wouldn't want NU sticker, but even that much debt at UCLA is dangerous.


What is the actual cost difference here? I can't tell from her posts. Also the class of 2011 data is out, you don't need to rely on 2010.

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Elston Gunn
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Re: UCLA $10k or NU Sticker

Postby Elston Gunn » Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:37 pm

sunynp wrote:
Elston Gunn wrote:What about big money at UCI? Is that an option? I can see why you wouldn't want NU sticker, but even that much debt at UCLA is dangerous.


What is the actual cost difference here? I can't tell from her posts. Also the class of 2011 data is out, you don't need to rely on 2010.


She said NU was 100K more (I'm assuming pre-interest), so that puts UCLA at about $150K before interest, I think. If it's post-interest, I guess $180K.

Dman
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Re: UCLA $10k or NU Sticker

Postby Dman » Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:52 pm

LALALAND12 wrote:
attractive_NUisance wrote:Class of 2010 UCLA Law: law firms 100+ attorneys = 39% of class.

http://www.law.ucla.edu/career-services ... stics.aspx

Class of 2010 NU Law: law firms 100+ attorneys = 57% of class.

http://www.law.northwestern.edu/career/ ... /2010.html


am I reading this top link incorrectly? It seems like UCLA did pretty well... better than i thought. But obviously northwestern is by far wayyyy better and has more flexibility in terms of markets


I can't speak for NU, but you realize that these employments numbers are skewed right? I know for a fact that employment numbers overall are based on the fact that a large section of the graduating class is hired by the school in fellowship positions just long enough to meet reporting requirements (yes this method happens at UCLA too). But the numbers of the lower pie graphs % are only based on those reporting in the survey, which also has accuracy issues. Also there is no number breakdown on how many went to large firms, just a % of those who decided to report.

Take the total number reporting 236 Time the % in firms (57%) by the number in 500 + attorney firms ie big law (52.7%) = 71, the number of peopel with big law jobs / by entire class size (346) = 20.5% who got big law jobs. Not all that rosy if you are taking out $150k in loans. 2011 was better but not that much better. My class of 2012's data has not been released but from anecdotal experience, my guess the numbers will not be much better than 2011.

Just saying, I have been there done that and if you base your decision on school published employment statistics your risk assessment may not be accurate. UCLA is a great school for a lot of reasons just have to make sure you are looking at it in the right light.

005618502
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Re: UCLA $10k or NU Sticker

Postby 005618502 » Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:58 pm

In this case, I would take UCLA for sure. You dont want to live outside so-cal. You have (small) money to go there BUT you also have what could be considered abother 15-20k a year in $$ because of your bf. I dont know how serious you are but if he pays your rent/food costs for the year, that is a lot of money. He will also likely be able to help you get the feel for law school and maybe help you network.

Take UCLA here.

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splitsplat
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Re: UCLA $10k or NU Sticker

Postby splitsplat » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:19 pm

LALALAND12 wrote:
attractive_NUisance wrote:Class of 2010 UCLA Law: law firms 100+ attorneys = 39% of class.

http://www.law.ucla.edu/career-services ... stics.aspx

Class of 2010 NU Law: law firms 100+ attorneys = 57% of class.

http://www.law.northwestern.edu/career/ ... /2010.html


am I reading this top link incorrectly? It seems like UCLA did pretty well... better than i thought. But obviously northwestern is by far wayyyy better and has more flexibility in terms of markets


You might want to consider the latest NLJ 250 Data instead (c/o 2011):
Northwestern University School of Law
149/286 52.1%
University of California at Los Angeles School of Law
78/344 22.67%

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 2543436520

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PennBull
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Re: UCLA $10k or NU Sticker

Postby PennBull » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:49 pm

AssumptionRequired wrote:In this case, I would take UCLA for sure. You dont want to live outside so-cal. You have (small) money to go there BUT you also have what could be considered abother 15-20k a year in $$ because of your bf. I dont know how serious you are but if he pays your rent/food costs for the year, that is a lot of money. He will also likely be able to help you get the feel for law school and maybe help you network.

Take UCLA here.


For 150k+ of debt, would you take UCLA?

I still vote neither school is a good choice, with the limitations OP has placed on themselves.

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glitter178
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Re: UCLA $10k or NU Sticker

Postby glitter178 » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:52 pm

splitsplat wrote:
LALALAND12 wrote:
attractive_NUisance wrote:Class of 2010 UCLA Law: law firms 100+ attorneys = 39% of class.

http://www.law.ucla.edu/career-services ... stics.aspx

Class of 2010 NU Law: law firms 100+ attorneys = 57% of class.

http://www.law.northwestern.edu/career/ ... /2010.html


am I reading this top link incorrectly? It seems like UCLA did pretty well... better than i thought. But obviously northwestern is by far wayyyy better and has more flexibility in terms of markets


You might want to consider the latest NLJ 250 Data instead (c/o 2011):
Northwestern University School of Law
149/286 52.1%
University of California at Los Angeles School of Law
78/344 22.67% <---------------------------------------- this number is terrifying.

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 2543436520

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TTTehehe
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Re: UCLA $10k or NU Sticker

Postby TTTehehe » Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:34 pm

I think you'll be in good shape regardless of what you choose.

UCLA will likely give you greater short term (3-5 years) happiness and could very well pay off for you in the long run.

Northwestern will probably give you a bigger headache (long distance relationship) in the short term, but open doors that may not have been available coming from UCLA.

You have to kind of accept that law school is a big came of craps. Some people will roll the dice and be in the top of the class, and get great first jobs out of either school. Others will roll the dice and be in the middle or below median, and have a tougher time.

The question you should ask yourself is how will being in the middle of Northwestern pay off for you vs. being middle at UCLA. This of course is "worst case" scenario, as we're all destined to be top 10% (or so everyone thinks).

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PennBull
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Re: UCLA $10k or NU Sticker

Postby PennBull » Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:14 pm

TTTehehe wrote:
The question you should ask yourself is how will being in the middle of Northwestern pay off for you vs. being middle at UCLA. This of course is "worst case" scenario, as we're all destined to be top 10% (or so everyone thinks).


Why would you suggest to somebody that being in the middle is the worst case scenario? That's cruelly shitty advice. People work very hard and still end up at the bottom, which is the actual worst case scenario.

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TTTehehe
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Re: UCLA $10k or NU Sticker

Postby TTTehehe » Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:45 pm

PennBull wrote:
TTTehehe wrote:
The question you should ask yourself is how will being in the middle of Northwestern pay off for you vs. being middle at UCLA. This of course is "worst case" scenario, as we're all destined to be top 10% (or so everyone thinks).


Why would you suggest to somebody that being in the middle is the worst case scenario? That's cruelly shitty advice. People work very hard and still end up at the bottom, which is the actual worst case scenario.


You're not good with sarcasm, are you?




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