University of Cincinnati vs University of Kentucky Forum

[1Lguy23]

So I've pretty much come to the end of my intellectual rope in terms of deciding on these two schools. I was waitlisted at University of Cincinnati until early June and was interested but leaning toward UK due to the lower tuition (18k in state). Well after having a nice conversation with the dean of admissions today, I was offered the same 18k tuition I'd get at UK. So in half visual thinking and half forum advice seeking, I've put down the Pros and Cons of each including soft and hard factors like location vs. bar passage rate etc.

University of Kentucky College of Law

Pros

96% bar passage rate in 2011
Higher USNWR ranking 62 (UC's is 69 now)
Flagship school in the state of Kentucky
Some name recognition outside of the state, though nothing to write home about.
Solid regional job placement in the South.
Solid Employment numbers (though with all the hanky panky that goes on who knows)
More peaceful atmosphere (well during basketball off season)
I have an apartment set up right across from the law school and would never need to drive to school.
People seemed happy there.
I'd be starting a new life there, which means I would have less distraction from old friends
Nearly as competitive as UC in Cincinnati.
More easily accessible, straight from the school numbers.
Would hook me into a new area with new connections.



Cons
Salaries have never been stellar. The class of 2011 averaged 45k.
Historically lower ranked than UC, In the last 5 years I believe this is the only time they've topped them.
I prefer the North to the South geographically.
I know no one in lexington which has its ups and downs.
Larger classes sizes, to be fare it has like 4 more people per class and maybe 10 more students overall.
Lexington and the surrounding areas are not exactly employment hubs.
Outside of Japanese food the food sucks.
The building is terrible. Worse than my old highschool. They are supposed to be getting a new one but it's been that way for 10 years.
Less informed decision overall.


University of Cincinnati College of Law

Pros
Sterling reputation in my home region.
On the doorstep of some big firms and companies.
Smaller class sizes (slightly)
Historically higher salaries.
Historically higher rankings.
The Ohio Bar exam transfers to KY and not vice versa. Will have to re-take from UK.
Close to home, could live there if I choose (won't).
Better job placement in the midwest.
Awesome food.
Younger faculty, may find it easier to get a mentor.
Right were all my connections are, if I can't land the big firm clerkships, I know dozens of NKY Cincy area small firm lawyers who would at least interview me.

Cons
The numbers have been aggravatingly not concrete. There is no page straight from the school which just has them.
My dream is really not to work in Cincinnati and I'm ready to move. Definitely a solid (and likely) scenario though.
I worry my old undergrad lifestyle won't wear off and I won't be as focused.
Downtown Cincinnati housing is more expensive, farther away, and is in the middle of a fairly high crime area.
UC dominates in Cincinnati but is not the flagship school of Ohio.
Won't be connected into new network. Already know a lot of lawyers in this region (but can always meet more.)
UK degree seems more transferable to Cincinnati job market than vice versa.
Smog.
Waitlisted me but no hard feelings there.
I've met a few disgruntled UC grads, but if I lived in Lexington I'd probably meet a few UK ones.


Well so there it is. I've learned some things myself just in the course of typing. If anybody has any advice (and if you read it all you might as well give it) post or pm me. From my 0L law applicant experience, I can't say enough good things about the admissions staff and faculty helpfulness at both schools. I've talked to both admissions deans about my tough decision and they've done all they can do. Scholarship wise UK has used their scholarship fund and UC has already matched UK, I could ask them for more I guess but...whew. Anyway there is my stream of consciousness, add to it if you'd like.

[SchopenhauerFTW]

.

[1Lguy23]

Well I just researched the numbers coming out of UC employment wise (LSAC numbers so I trust them about as much as you can trust numbers) and UK's were quite a bit better. 72% employment rate with 77% of those jobs requiring a bar passage rate and full-time long term, which is in the top 25 in the country based on employment stats. UC's is 48% with 27% being "underemployed" and 5% hired by their own university. This is a huge concern for me because I am not going to end up folding shirts at Target with a JD, and I know it happens. I was logically with UC until that point but now I don't know...Numbers can be deceiving but I'm buying these since they match what UK is giving out at orientation and I was directed to them via LSAC. To be fair everybody wants to be a lawyer in a metropolitan city like Cincinnati, few want to be the town lawyer in Hazard, KY, so maybe it's a matter of KY being less of a rat race.

One boon for UC that I didn't quite think of is I know a few people that I could probably work for as a 2L and 3L part-time during law school in the greater cincy area. No clue in Lexington. This gives me better (possibly paid) experience for when I am looking for a job. But the numbers point to UK as better as far as employment and that's a huge deal for me. I do feel a bit better off in the NKY/Cincy area due to a few connections, but I'm not taking that for granted.

[SchopenhauerFTW]

Ouch. Ignore my obviously naive post then.

[lbeezy]

I just graduated from UK Law, so clearly I'm biased. But as far as people working as a 2L and 3L -- almost everyone I know who wanted to work part-time at a firm did so. The class size at UK is super small (130 people, roughly) so even though the market is smaller, there are also fewer people who need jobs.

And yeah -- last years class, while I would say only 40-50% of the class had a job at graduation, everyone seemed to be employed by the time bar results came out. I know that isn't the best news, but the hiring model here is a little different -- firms want you barred before they hire you.

[1Lguy23]

Ouch. Ignore my obviously naive post then.

I've kind of learned to not put too much weight in numbers, I mean LSAC also said I had a 5-20% chance of getting into University of Kentucky and UC so why should I believe them now?

But still I don't have any numbers from the school out of UC and that worries me.

[1Lguy23]

I just graduated from UK Law, so clearly I'm biased. But as far as people working as a 2L and 3L -- almost everyone I know who wanted to work part-time at a firm did so. The class size at UK is super small (130 people, roughly) so even though the market is smaller, there are also fewer people who need jobs.

And yeah -- last years class, while I would say only 40-50% of the class had a job at graduation, everyone seemed to be employed by the time bar results came out. I know that isn't the best news, but the hiring model here is a little different -- firms want you barred before they hire you.

Pretty much as broad of a question as you can get but how did you like it?

[lbeezy]

I just graduated from UK Law, so clearly I'm biased. But as far as people working as a 2L and 3L -- almost everyone I know who wanted to work part-time at a firm did so. The class size at UK is super small (130 people, roughly) so even though the market is smaller, there are also fewer people who need jobs.

And yeah -- last years class, while I would say only 40-50% of the class had a job at graduation, everyone seemed to be employed by the time bar results came out. I know that isn't the best news, but the hiring model here is a little different -- firms want you barred before they hire you.

Pretty much as broad of a question as you can get but how did you like it?

It was okay. I actually wish I had gone to one of my other options, but only because I think getting away from my college friends would have been helpful in the long run -- I had a ton of distractions here. However, the teachers are really, really great, and are super invested in your job prospects and putting you in touch with people, etc. And the classes end up being pretty tight with each other -- everyone in my class seemed to get along well with everyone else, and events and things were always going on, etc.

The building sucks, but it's such a minor point in the larger scheme of things -- at the end of the day it's just a building.

Also the food here is fantastic, you goon. And I assume by apartment across the street you mean at the seminary -- and that's a great choice. A ton of law students live there and it becomes its own little community. If you have any specific questions though, feel free to pm me.

[1776]

So I've pretty much come to the end of my intellectual rope in terms of deciding on these two schools. I was waitlisted at University of Cincinnati until early June and was interested but leaning toward UK due to the lower tuition (18k in state). Well after having a nice conversation with the dean of admissions today, I was offered the same 18k tuition I'd get at UK. So in half visual thinking and half forum advice seeking, I've put down the Pros and Cons of each including soft and hard factors like location vs. bar passage rate etc.

University of Kentucky College of Law

Pros

96% bar passage rate in 2011
Higher USNWR ranking 62 (UC's is 69 now)
Flagship school in the state of Kentucky
Some name recognition outside of the state, though nothing to write home about.
Solid regional job placement in the South.
Solid Employment numbers (though with all the hanky panky that goes on who knows)
More peaceful atmosphere (well during basketball off season)
I have an apartment set up right across from the law school and would never need to drive to school.
People seemed happy there.
I'd be starting a new life there, which means I would have less distraction from old friends
Nearly as competitive as UC in Cincinnati.
More easily accessible, straight from the school numbers.
Would hook me into a new area with new connections.



Cons
Salaries have never been stellar. The class of 2011 averaged 45k.
Historically lower ranked than UC, In the last 5 years I believe this is the only time they've topped them.
I prefer the North to the South geographically.
I know no one in lexington which has its ups and downs.
Larger classes sizes, to be fare it has like 4 more people per class and maybe 10 more students overall.
Lexington and the surrounding areas are not exactly employment hubs.
Outside of Japanese food the food sucks.
The building is terrible. Worse than my old highschool. They are supposed to be getting a new one but it's been that way for 10 years.
Less informed decision overall.


University of Cincinnati College of Law

Pros
Sterling reputation in my home region.
On the doorstep of some big firms and companies.
Smaller class sizes (slightly)
Historically higher salaries.
Historically higher rankings.
The Ohio Bar exam transfers to KY and not vice versa. Will have to re-take from UK.
Close to home, could live there if I choose (won't).
Better job placement in the midwest.
Awesome food.
Younger faculty, may find it easier to get a mentor.
Right were all my connections are, if I can't land the big firm clerkships, I know dozens of NKY Cincy area small firm lawyers who would at least interview me.

Cons
The numbers have been aggravatingly not concrete. There is no page straight from the school which just has them.
My dream is really not to work in Cincinnati and I'm ready to move. Definitely a solid (and likely) scenario though.
I worry my old undergrad lifestyle won't wear off and I won't be as focused.
Downtown Cincinnati housing is more expensive, farther away, and is in the middle of a fairly high crime area.
UC dominates in Cincinnati but is not the flagship school of Ohio.
Won't be connected into new network. Already know a lot of lawyers in this region (but can always meet more.)
UK degree seems more transferable to Cincinnati job market than vice versa.
Smog.
Waitlisted me but no hard feelings there.
I've met a few disgruntled UC grads, but if I lived in Lexington I'd probably meet a few UK ones.


Well so there it is. I've learned some things myself just in the course of typing. If anybody has any advice (and if you read it all you might as well give it) post or pm me. From my 0L law applicant experience, I can't say enough good things about the admissions staff and faculty helpfulness at both schools. I've talked to both admissions deans about my tough decision and they've done all they can do. Scholarship wise UK has used their scholarship fund and UC has already matched UK, I could ask them for more I guess but...whew. Anyway there is my stream of consciousness, add to it if you'd like.

yeah, the Dean of Admissions from UC is REALLY nice. He gave me a call and was telling me how to get instate. Their offer was really nice, and I was off the waitlist. It would've been the cheapest tuition wise, but I already put a deposit down and I thought it was too late to change schools. I was really impressed with UC's admissions process, and I wish I would've heard back a little sooner. I probably would have gone there.

Good luck in choosing!

[abc12345675]

OP, I'm a little confused. You say a Con for UC is that you don't really want to live/practice in Cincy-----but you want to practice in Kentucky? I don't understand.

[1Lguy23]

OP, I'm a little confused. You say a Con for UC is that you don't really want to live/practice in Cincy-----but you want to practice in Kentucky? I don't understand.

I'm a bit torn where I wan to practice. Cincinnati isn't exactly a dream of mine, but it's a nice, lucrative job market. I wouldn't mind practicing in certain areas in Kentucky but I don't see that major metro area like in UC.

Honestly I'd like to practice out of state (but I don't know where!), but since I'm not in that top 30 schools that will be tough. I have a few strong out of state family connections though which could help me get to some other places but the name UC and UK will likely not do much beyond their solid ranking. My ambitions on where to practice are a bit murky at the moment but I won't be disappointed if I end up in KY or Ohio which is very possible.