Someone choosing between Cooley and Golden Gate

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abc12345675
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Someone choosing between Cooley and Golden Gate

Postby abc12345675 » Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:33 pm

I know someone dumb enough to be considering these options. Won't listen to reason about retaking or not going. How would you deal with this?

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Broseidon
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Re: Someone choosing between Cooley and Golden Gate

Postby Broseidon » Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:37 pm

Golden Gate. If the're gonna throw away 3 years of their life, they might as well do it while enjoying that beautiful SF weather.

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sunynp
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Re: Someone choosing between Cooley and Golden Gate

Postby sunynp » Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:38 pm

Here is an article that makes Golden Gate look really bad with stipulations on scholarships:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/01/busin ... rants.html

There must be similar articles about Cooley somewhere.

I would try to find mainstream publications. Also LST data might be helpful.
Once they have the data, it is their choice. Not much more you can do about it.

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goldeneye
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Re: Someone choosing between Cooley and Golden Gate

Postby goldeneye » Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:43 pm

Provide them with a guide book on leaving the country and attaining a new identity to avoid debt payments.

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Nova
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Re: Someone choosing between Cooley and Golden Gate

Postby Nova » Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:37 pm

What is your relationship with this person?

SchopenhauerFTW
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Re: Someone choosing between Cooley and Golden Gate

Postby SchopenhauerFTW » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:20 pm

Broseidon wrote:Golden Gate. If the're gonna throw away 3 years of their life, they might as well do it while enjoying that beautiful SF weather.
TITCR

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1776
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Re: Someone choosing between Cooley and Golden Gate

Postby 1776 » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:21 pm

sunynp wrote:Here is an article that makes Golden Gate look really bad with stipulations on scholarships:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/01/busin ... rants.html

There must be similar articles about Cooley somewhere.

I would try to find mainstream publications. Also LST data might be helpful.
Once they have the data, it is their choice. Not much more you can do about it.


I was curious and looked at the LST numbers for both. I didn't know employment stats could be that bad!

SchopenhauerFTW
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Re: Someone choosing between Cooley and Golden Gate

Postby SchopenhauerFTW » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:27 pm

1776 wrote:
sunynp wrote:Here is an article that makes Golden Gate look really bad with stipulations on scholarships:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/01/busin ... rants.html

There must be similar articles about Cooley somewhere.

I would try to find mainstream publications. Also LST data might be helpful.
Once they have the data, it is their choice. Not much more you can do about it.


I was curious and looked at the LST numbers for both. I didn't know employment stats could be that bad!


http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog ... hools.html

University of Santa Clara is at the top of that list.

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splitbrain
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Re: Someone choosing between Cooley and Golden Gate

Postby splitbrain » Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:34 pm

abc12345675 wrote:I know someone dumb enough to be considering these options. Won't listen to reason about retaking or not going. How would you deal with this?

Would depend on my relationship with them but also their ability to listen to logic and reason.

Real Madrid
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Re: Someone choosing between Cooley and Golden Gate

Postby Real Madrid » Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:27 am

goldeneye wrote:Provide them with a guide book on leaving the country and attaining a new identity to avoid debt payments.


The correct response.

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flem
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Re: Someone choosing between Cooley and Golden Gate

Postby flem » Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:18 am

Send a passive aggressive let me google that for you link RE: scamblogs and employment stats

I don't actually know how anyone chooses these schools with all the bad press they get. Do people not even google the school? If you google Cooley the first three links are for stuff on Cooley's website, and after that its all scamblogs links.

timbs4339
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Re: Someone choosing between Cooley and Golden Gate

Postby timbs4339 » Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:24 am

flem wrote:Send a passive aggressive let me google that for you link RE: scamblogs and employment stats

I don't actually know how anyone chooses these schools with all the bad press they get. Do people not even google the school? If you google Cooley the first three links are for stuff on Cooley's website, and after that its all scamblogs links.


These people may actually be mentally incapable of making the decision not to attend. The strength of the optimism/confirmation bias means that no amount of information will dissuade them.

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Easy-E
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Re: Someone choosing between Cooley and Golden Gate

Postby Easy-E » Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:24 am

flem wrote:Send a passive aggressive let me google that for you link RE: scamblogs and employment stats

I don't actually know how anyone chooses these schools with all the bad press they get. Do people not even google the school? If you google Cooley the first three links are for stuff on Cooley's website, and after that its all scamblogs links.


I literally just clicked over from a thread where someone was refusing to take advice to not go to either Brooklyn or St. Johns. I don't know if its special snowflake syndrome, an inability to process information, or some kind of protein deficiency, but some people refuse to accept this shit. I understand when people's friends and family say "Oh just go to any school you'll be fine" but about 20 seconds on TLS will tell you how fucking wrong that is. /rant


timbs4339 wrote:These people may actually be mentally incapable of making the decision not to attend. The strength of the optimism/confirmation bias means that no amount of information will dissuade them.


I honestly find it fascinating.

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Dr. Review
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Re: Someone choosing between Cooley and Golden Gate

Postby Dr. Review » Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:08 am

SchopenhauerFTW wrote:http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog ... hools.html

University of Santa Clara is at the top of that list.


There's an update at the bottom of the list that says:

Update: Law School Transparency has corrected the data for:

Santa Clara: a positive 23.0% (53.8% Employment Score - 30.8% Under-Employment Score)

bingbang1025
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Re: Someone choosing between Cooley and Golden Gate

Postby bingbang1025 » Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:09 pm

What these TTT schools do is absolutely criminal re: grade stipulations.

They systematically ensure that some of their scholarship students will lose their grants. The school gets to not pay in years 2/3 while keeping the GPA/LSAT inflation that student (likely way above their medians) brought them.

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Dr. Review
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Re: Someone choosing between Cooley and Golden Gate

Postby Dr. Review » Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:17 pm

bingbang1025 wrote:What these TTT schools do is absolutely criminal re: grade stipulations.

They systematically ensure that some of their scholarship students will lose their grants. The school gets to not pay in years 2/3 while keeping the GPA/LSAT inflation that student (likely way above their medians) brought them.


I think DePaul's stip is like top 1/3 or top 1/4

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Broseidon
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Re: Someone choosing between Cooley and Golden Gate

Postby Broseidon » Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:20 pm

bingbang1025 wrote:What these TTT schools do is absolutely criminal re: grade stipulations.

They systematically ensure that some of their scholarship students will lose their grants. The school gets to not pay in years 2/3 while keeping the GPA/LSAT inflation that student (likely way above their medians) brought them.

Agreed. On a similar note, the TTTs that kick students out if they're below a certain point are actually doing them a good service. I know Widener does this, and I think the school is doing them a favor by not allowing them to drop another 80 grand.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Someone choosing between Cooley and Golden Gate

Postby JamMasterJ » Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:25 pm

HCG is basically biglaw secure, so I'd go with Cooley. I mean, Golden Gate is only a third tier school.

bingbang1025
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Re: Someone choosing between Cooley and Golden Gate

Postby bingbang1025 » Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:45 pm

Broseidon wrote:
bingbang1025 wrote:What these TTT schools do is absolutely criminal re: grade stipulations.

They systematically ensure that some of their scholarship students will lose their grants. The school gets to not pay in years 2/3 while keeping the GPA/LSAT inflation that student (likely way above their medians) brought them.

Agreed. On a similar note, the TTTs that kick students out if they're below a certain point are actually doing them a good service. I know Widener does this, and I think the school is doing them a favor by not allowing them to drop another 80 grand.


Every single school should cut their class size by 60%. Done.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Someone choosing between Cooley and Golden Gate

Postby JamMasterJ » Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:54 pm

bingbang1025 wrote:
Broseidon wrote:
bingbang1025 wrote:What these TTT schools do is absolutely criminal re: grade stipulations.

They systematically ensure that some of their scholarship students will lose their grants. The school gets to not pay in years 2/3 while keeping the GPA/LSAT inflation that student (likely way above their medians) brought them.

Agreed. On a similar note, the TTTs that kick students out if they're below a certain point are actually doing them a good service. I know Widener does this, and I think the school is doing them a favor by not allowing them to drop another 80 grand.


Every single school should cut their class size by 60%. Done.

it would be better to just cut the bad schools instead. No point in having 60% less at Yale and retaining some TTTs

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Nova
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Re: Someone choosing between Cooley and Golden Gate

Postby Nova » Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:03 pm

JamMasterJ wrote:
bingbang1025 wrote:
Broseidon wrote:
bingbang1025 wrote:What these TTT schools do is absolutely criminal re: grade stipulations.

They systematically ensure that some of their scholarship students will lose their grants. The school gets to not pay in years 2/3 while keeping the GPA/LSAT inflation that student (likely way above their medians) brought them.

Agreed. On a similar note, the TTTs that kick students out if they're below a certain point are actually doing them a good service. I know Widener does this, and I think the school is doing them a favor by not allowing them to drop another 80 grand.


Every single school should cut their class size by 60%. Done.

it would be better to just cut the bad schools instead. No point in having 60% less at Yale and retaining some TTTs


I completely agree. Slashing about 50 schools would be a good start.

bingbang1025
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Re: Someone choosing between Cooley and Golden Gate

Postby bingbang1025 » Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:41 pm

They need to make the bar exam a lot, lot more difficult. Slash the bottom 50-75 schools. Set up more lienient 1st-year exit programs for people to gracefully GTFO of school if their grades are crap (e.g., refund 50% of tuition or something).

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Br3v
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Re: Someone choosing between Cooley and Golden Gate

Postby Br3v » Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:44 pm

bingbang1025 wrote:They need to make the bar exam a lot, lot more difficult. Slash the bottom 50-75 schools. Set up more lienient 1st-year exit programs for people to gracefully GTFO of school if their grades are crap (e.g., refund 50% of tuition or something).


If anything, TTT schools have the incentive to make students pay a sort of exit few to give students less of an incentive to leave

locthebloke
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Re: Someone choosing between Cooley and Golden Gate

Postby locthebloke » Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:05 pm

The whole Third and Fourth Tier should just be slashed, period. The only law schools that should exist are basically the top 20 or so, and then the state schools with strong brand/reputation in a region (Wisconsin, Illinois, etc.)

The ABA are the scum of this earth. They "accredit" all these pathetic junk heap schools when they know how bad the situation is and still don't require independent audits on employment and salary figures. Meanwhile they allow the outsourcing of legal work to India to go on.

timbs4339
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Re: Someone choosing between Cooley and Golden Gate

Postby timbs4339 » Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:09 pm

bingbang1025 wrote:They need to make the bar exam a lot, lot more difficult. Slash the bottom 50-75 schools. Set up more lienient 1st-year exit programs for people to gracefully GTFO of school if their grades are crap (e.g., refund 50% of tuition or something).


Maybe some sort of paralegal certification or something?
bingbang1025 wrote:What these TTT schools do is absolutely criminal re: grade stipulations.

They systematically ensure that some of their scholarship students will lose their grants. The school gets to not pay in years 2/3 while keeping the GPA/LSAT inflation that student (likely way above their medians) brought them.


I never understood the justification for the stipulations. You're attending a shitty school in one of the worst job markets ever. You need to score in the top 10% just to have a shot at a decent job. Unless people are really just treating law school like a three-year vacation what exactly is the risk that a hardworking, intelligent student will suddenly stop working and voluntarily accept certain unemployment?




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