Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

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rad lulz
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Re: Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

Postby rad lulz » Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:38 am

A 55% shot at a full time legal job is better than the job stats from your previous field, where you ALREADY had a job? Think about that...

rad lulz
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Re: Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

Postby rad lulz » Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:43 am

Incidentally, I also love it when people say "It's the best school in the state! The alumni network is great!" Well okay, are there jobs in the state?

abc12345675
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Re: Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

Postby abc12345675 » Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:00 am

rad lulz wrote:A 55% shot at a full time legal job is better than the job stats from your previous field, where you ALREADY had a job? Think about that...


Maybe he didn't like his previous field? Maybe he can go back to his previous job if USC doesn't work out, and being a lawyer is worth the risk for him? Maybe he likes running in to the ole Ball Coach?

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Scotusnerd
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Re: Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

Postby Scotusnerd » Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:01 am

rad lulz wrote:A 55% shot at a full time legal job is better than the job stats from your previous field, where you ALREADY had a job? Think about that...

Because having a job one year means you will have it the next year.

Have you even lived in the real world? Things happen and jobs change. You should know this.

Since this is relevant to the thread, I guess I'll post it. Long story short, the funding for my teaching position was cut, since I had only recently gotten the job and the district was downsizing. I knew the risks going in to it, and I chose it specifically to save up money and so I could figure out whether I wanted to do this for a living or not. I completed my contract for the year, and my contract was not renewed. My principal was reassigned to another school, and the entire school was reorganized due to legislation for no child left behind. After this, I moved to South Carolina to be with my fiance.

My previous job does not exist here within the state of South Carolina. Early music education is not as important out here, since most churches have music programs. Also, I had learned that I really didn't want to be a music teacher. Because of these factors, I had to figure out something to do with my life, and teaching was not in the cards, since my degree wasn't transferable.

So that is how I ended up on the path here. I know my choices, and I know why I made them, and I don't regret it. I didn't just 'spur of the moment' my decision to law school, and I did my background research for several months on schools in the area. I took the LSAT 3 times until I got a score good enough to get a scholarship. Even with that employment rate, it is by far the cheapest school with the best chance of placement within South Carolina.


ze2151 wrote:scotusnerd, just listen to rad rulz for your own sake.

but since i love saying i told you so, save this thread and come back to it in three years.

insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot.com.


Thanks for the link. Since you love saying 'i told you so', I will save this thread and come back in three years. We'll compare how we all did job-wise. :)

rad lulz wrote:Incidentally, I also love it when people say "It's the best school in the state! The alumni network is great!" Well okay, are there jobs in the state?


Now you're arguing for me to go to CSOL? The hell kinda scam are you running? :? And, yes, there are jobs. And, yes, I think there will be jobs when I graduate. Do I know this? Of course not. But I think I have a pretty good shot. Certainly a better one than as an early music teacher.

Hutz_and_Goodman
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Re: Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:05 am

With all due respect, let's keep the thread on topic: full ride/full ride+ vs. higher ranked schools. This is not a "Should I go to Law School?" thread.

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Scotusnerd
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Re: Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

Postby Scotusnerd » Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:07 am

Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:With all due respect, let's keep the thread on topic: full ride/full ride+ vs. higher ranked schools. This is not a "Should I go to Law School?" thread.


Agreed. I've said my piece.

abc12345675
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Re: Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

Postby abc12345675 » Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:12 am

I think that once you get outside the top 25 school they are all regional anyway. So the difference between number 35 and number 70 isn't much and is related to the individual market. So where you want to live is the first question when analyzing these things. If number 70 is where you want to live and gave you more money, why would you go to number 35 where you will pay more and not be in your market?

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Nova
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Re: Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

Postby Nova » Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:22 am

abc12345675 wrote:I think that once you get outside the top 25 T14school they are all regional anyway. So the difference between number 35 and number 70 isn't much and is related to the individual market. So where you want to live is the first question when analyzing these things. If number 70 is where you want to live and gave you more money, why would you go to number 35 where you will pay more and not be in your market?

I agree with what you wrote, except I would consider UCLA/USC/Vandy/UT/UMN/GW/UW/WUSTL/Emory/W&L regional as well.
Last edited by Nova on Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

rad lulz
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Re: Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

Postby rad lulz » Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:25 am

Nova wrote:
abc12345675 wrote:I think that once you get outside the top 25 T14school they are all regional anyway. So the difference between number 35 and number 70 isn't much and is related to the individual market. So where you want to live is the first question when analyzing these things. If number 70 is where you want to live and gave you more money, why would you go to number 35 where you will pay more and not be in your market?

I agree what you you wrote, except I would consider UCLA/USC/Vandy/UT/UMN/GW/UW/WUSTL/Emory/W&L regional as well.

All schools are regional. OR DID I JUST BLOW YOUR MIND.

abc12345675
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Re: Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

Postby abc12345675 » Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:28 am

rad lulz wrote:
Nova wrote:
abc12345675 wrote:I think that once you get outside the top 25 T14school they are all regional anyway. So the difference between number 35 and number 70 isn't much and is related to the individual market. So where you want to live is the first question when analyzing these things. If number 70 is where you want to live and gave you more money, why would you go to number 35 where you will pay more and not be in your market?

I agree what you you wrote, except I would consider UCLA/USC/Vandy/UT/UMN/GW/UW/WUSTL/Emory/W&L regional as well.

All schools are regional. OR DID I JUST BLOW YOUR MIND.


If by regional you mean the United States of America, then sure.

Hutz_and_Goodman
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Re: Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:30 am

Any TLS users who have accepted full ride/full ride+ or are considering doing so want to weigh in on the choice?

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6thbackstreetboy
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Re: Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

Postby 6thbackstreetboy » Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:26 pm

I'm taking a full tuition+fees scholarship at UCI over $ at Michigan. I was looking at only around 100k in debt from Michigan, but even that much debt terrifies me. I don't really want biglaw, so not having any debt when I graduate is amazing. I was also considering UMN with full tuition, and WUSTL with basically full tuition, but I chose UCI because I have ties to southern California and it is where I want to end up.

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Philipsssssss
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Re: Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

Postby Philipsssssss » Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:27 pm

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Last edited by Philipsssssss on Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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JCFindley
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Re: Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

Postby JCFindley » Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:48 pm

Scotusnerd wrote:
Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:With all due respect, let's keep the thread on topic: full ride/full ride+ vs. higher ranked schools. This is not a "Should I go to Law School?" thread.


Agreed. I've said my piece.


Nerd, please quit confusing the K-JD1Ls with lessons from the real world, as it it strictly a hypothetical numbers game to them....

Thank you. :wink:

And I do think she made a point for taking a lower ranked school with money that met her goals which is in fact on subject. If the end game goal is working in SC there is not likely another school that would do her better.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

Postby Tiago Splitter » Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:58 pm

ze2151 wrote:the adage, "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush," seems apt.

i was in your shoes. i said thanks but no thanks to some generous offers from t14s and offers of admission from the very top schools.

i have zero regrets.

stop thinking of student loan money as some fake imaginary money you will pay back when you are making hundreds of thousands of dollars in three years. take off the rose-colored glasses and talk honestly with yourself. you will be getting a 200 thousand dollar piece of paper. that's like a house. but you can't live in a piece of paper.

take the money. nearly anything you want to do at a t14, you can do from a t25 launching pad. further, you aren't a sucker for the "biglaw or bust" mindset. you can honestly consider working for a smaller firm, building a book of business, and actually learning to be a real-life lawyer.

there is nothing quite so satisfying as throwing your fafsa paperwork in the grill, adding liberal amounts of lighter fluid, and enjoying the show. if you crash and burn at a t25, you've lost only opportunity costs (assuming no stips). if you crash and burn with 200k debt, you will never, EVER, climb your way back out.

i recommend you visit the website insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot.com. it will act as a very needed cold shower.


This is especially hilarious given that Campos just wrote a post about a guy who did "everything right" (got a 172 LSAT, took a full-ride at a "Mid-Tier One") but couldn't land a job. Turned down the T-14 and got burned.

Of course, that guy did far from everything right, but I hate to let the truth get in the way of a good story.

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sunynp
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Re: Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

Postby sunynp » Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:58 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
ze2151 wrote:the adage, "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush," seems apt.

i was in your shoes. i said thanks but no thanks to some generous offers from t14s and offers of admission from the very top schools.

i have zero regrets.

stop thinking of student loan money as some fake imaginary money you will pay back when you are making hundreds of thousands of dollars in three years. take off the rose-colored glasses and talk honestly with yourself. you will be getting a 200 thousand dollar piece of paper. that's like a house. but you can't live in a piece of paper.

take the money. nearly anything you want to do at a t14, you can do from a t25 launching pad. further, you aren't a sucker for the "biglaw or bust" mindset. you can honestly consider working for a smaller firm, building a book of business, and actually learning to be a real-life lawyer.

there is nothing quite so satisfying as throwing your fafsa paperwork in the grill, adding liberal amounts of lighter fluid, and enjoying the show. if you crash and burn at a t25, you've lost only opportunity costs (assuming no stips). if you crash and burn with 200k debt, you will never, EVER, climb your way back out.

i recommend you visit the website insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot.com. it will act as a very needed cold shower.


This is especially hilarious given that Campos just wrote a post about a guy who did "everything right" (got a 172 LSAT, took a full-ride at a "Mid-Tier One") but couldn't land a job. Turned down the T-14 and got burned.

Of course, that guy did far from everything right, but I hate to let the truth get in the way of a good story.

Here is the link - note Campos also posted some comments to that blog post which had some additional information.

http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot. ... money.html

The guy wanted to be a DA and did everything he could to get that job. He was purely public interest. He didn't get any firm experience. Now he can't get a job as a DA because of the economy and he has no firm experience.

I don't see how going to a T14 at sticker and owing tuition would help him as he is unemployed. I don't think that going to a different school would have changed the likelihood he would get a job as a DA. The only difference to him would be that he doesn't have a job and would also have large debt. LARP is useless if you are unemployed.

Also note, when that person made his decision, IBR didn't exist. IBR seems to be influencing the debt decision of a lot of students.

And of course when he went to school (he was class of 2010) the economy was in better shape. I think public interest and government hiring was in much better shape then.

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smaug_
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Re: Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

Postby smaug_ » Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:02 pm

sunynp wrote:I don't think that going to a different school would have changed the likelihood he would get a job as a DA.


Why not (at least if you change the DA bit)?

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sunynp
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Re: Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

Postby sunynp » Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:09 pm

hibiki wrote:
sunynp wrote:I don't think that going to a different school would have changed the likelihood he would get a job as a DA.


Why not (at least if you change the DA bit)?

His plan was always to do public service. I don't think a T14 can get him a job when none exist. He possibly could have a job from his original school, if he hadn't been totally public service focused.

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Re: Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

Postby ze2151 » Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:13 pm

"This is especially hilarious given that Campos just wrote a post about a guy who did "everything right" (got a 172 LSAT, took a full-ride at a "Mid-Tier One") but couldn't land a job. Turned down the T-14 and got burned.

Of course, that guy did far from everything right, but I hate to let the truth get in the way of a good story."

hey tiago, imagine if that guy had "done everything right" but had gone to a t-14 at sticker instead?

as it stands, he's only out oppty cost, which is exactly what i said in my post. dig your own grave, don't encourage others to dig theirs.

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Re: Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

Postby ze2151 » Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:16 pm

plus "mid tier one" is a pretty nebulous term. we're talking top 25 full scholarship, or at least that's what i'm talking about.

named scholarships are great because they give your resume cachet before you put anything else on it. it is a leveler with a t14 name in whatever home market you're in. after that, you better make the grade. but if you don't, oh well, back to the lumber yard, and uncle sam isn't hounding you for 200 thousand dollars.

CreativityKing
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Re: Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

Postby CreativityKing » Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:32 pm

I took lower T14 full ride over HYS at sticker. Couldn't be happier about the decision.

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AreJay711
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Re: Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

Postby AreJay711 » Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:10 pm

Generally, I'd say go with the full ride. Fuck it. If you go median anywhere other than HYS you are hoping to get biglaw in NYC or Chitown. That's not so great and unless you are dead set on NYC or Chicago I don't see why biglaw there is better than shitlaw somewhere else. I know law students are type A prestige heads but if you just want to be a lawyer and be happy I don't see the benefit to the higher ranked school.

I've told this story before but for a while my GPA was terrible. I was a summer starter at UMich and had a prof enter my grade in wrong as a C when I earned a much better grade. My other graded course -- we only take 2 graded over the summer -- was a B+ making the GPA I saw a 2.7 or so. Basically I was fucked. The thing is, it wasn't like I couldn't believe it. I figured I just missed something and got curve fucked. It eventually got fixed when I asked to go over the exam with him to see how I could do better but I was almost too embarrassed to even ask. The whole situation made me realize it was dumb for me to be at a T10 school with a relatively small scholly. My grades ended up pretty good but I had no reason to think that would happen beforehand.

Really, really, really consider how you will deal with being bottom 25% at the different schools. Your local t50 with a full scholly -- provided no crazy stips -- and you will be fine: just looking for a moderate paying job helping individuals and small businesses. You won't be much worse off than most other people who just finished their education. At the t14 school you will probably be looking at an uphill climb at best and if you are dead bottom, like I though I was, more like face-down in a pile of shit.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

Postby Tiago Splitter » Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:53 pm

ze2151 wrote:"This is especially hilarious given that Campos just wrote a post about a guy who did "everything right" (got a 172 LSAT, took a full-ride at a "Mid-Tier One") but couldn't land a job. Turned down the T-14 and got burned.

Of course, that guy did far from everything right, but I hate to let the truth get in the way of a good story."

hey tiago, imagine if that guy had "done everything right" but had gone to a t-14 at sticker instead?

as it stands, he's only out oppty cost, which is exactly what i said in my post. dig your own grave, don't encourage others to dig theirs.


According to Campos he took out 37K in loans to finance COL. So he wasn't totally debt free.

To your question, he wouldn't have been in that situation if he had done everything right. The guy sounds like a pretty serious splitter; anyone with a 172 and no money in the T-14 has to be. His other big mistake was being fully dedicated to public interest and expecting a public law job to be handed to him when he graduated. Perhaps back in 2007 he couldn't know that this wouldn't happen but anyone going today sure as hell can.

There are a lot more lessons in that story than just "don't go to law school." Maybe "Ben" didn't have enough information to avoid those mistakes but we all can learn from his.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

Postby Bildungsroman » Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:05 pm

rad lulz wrote:Incidentally, I also love it when people say "It's the best school in the state! The alumni network is great!" Well okay, are there jobs in the state?

dood, [TTT] may not place a lot of people into [prestigious job], but it absolutely OWNS [tiny local legal market]. Every lawyer around here is a graduate of [TTT] and you can't beat that for networking.

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Re: Taking a full ride(+) scholarship at lower ranked school

Postby PennBull » Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:05 am

CreativityKing wrote:I took lower T14 full ride over HYS at sticker. Couldn't be happier about the decision.


These are the decisions I'm always curious about.




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