Retake question- What's the break point?

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What is the break point for holding and re-applying

161
3
7%
162
6
13%
163
1
2%
164
6
13%
165
10
22%
166
19
42%
 
Total votes: 45

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Nammertat
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Retake question- What's the break point?

Postby Nammertat » Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:22 pm

Hello all-

Currently I'm a 159/4.0 (NON-urm, decent softs), and have dialed down all of my options to UC Davis with 39k/year. I want either DC or NorCal, hence the Davis choice.

Yesterday I took my 3rd LSAT and after another 6 months of study it felt pretty good, however there is always room for failure on this terrible test. With scores coming in early July, I'll have less than 4 weeks to either:

A) Move to Davis and live happily ever after
B) Take my new score to Penn/UVA who I'm waitlisted with
C) Realize my new score is awesome and wait/reapply next cycle

Here's the real question- At what point does it make serious sense, considering the massive $$ to Davis, to wait and re-apply. (Poll at the top)
Last edited by Nammertat on Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

abc12345675
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Re: Retake question- What's the break point?

Postby abc12345675 » Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:34 pm

Nammertat wrote:Hello all-

Currently I'm a 159/4.0 (NON-urm, decent softs), and have dialed down all of my options to UC Davis with 39k/year. I want either DC or NorCal, hence the Davis choice.

Yesterday I took my 3rd LSAT and after another 6 months of study it felt pretty good, however there is always room for failure on this terrible test. With scores coming in early July, I'll have less than 4 weeks to either:

A) Move to Davis and live happily ever after
B) Take my new score to Penn/UVA who I'm waitlisted with
C) Realize my new score is awesome and wait/reapply next cycle

Here's the real question- At what point does it make serious sense, considering the massive $$ to Davis, to wait and re-apply. (Poll at the top)


I'd retake until I got a 168. You cannot waste a 4.0. I repeat CANNOT. Get a 168 and go to Boalt. Enjoy any NorCal job you'd like.

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Nammertat
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Re: Retake question- What's the break point?

Postby Nammertat » Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:37 pm

abc12345675 wrote:
Nammertat wrote:Hello all-

Currently I'm a 159/4.0 (NON-urm, decent softs), and have dialed down all of my options to UC Davis with 39k/year. I want either DC or NorCal, hence the Davis choice.

Yesterday I took my 3rd LSAT and after another 6 months of study it felt pretty good, however there is always room for failure on this terrible test. With scores coming in early July, I'll have less than 4 weeks to either:

A) Move to Davis and live happily ever after
B) Take my new score to Penn/UVA who I'm waitlisted with
C) Realize my new score is awesome and wait/reapply next cycle

Here's the real question- At what point does it make serious sense, considering the massive $$ to Davis, to wait and re-apply. (Poll at the top)


I'd retake until I got a 168. You cannot waste a 4.0. I repeat CANNOT. Get a 168 and go to Boalt. Enjoy any NorCal job you'd like.


It's definitely possible I scored in that range yesterday. I've been Pting in the low 170s, and of course Berkeley is my #1. I applied this year and made it through FR2 before being dinged.

However, there is a rule against taking the test more than 3 times in 2 years. Another retake is not in the cards at this point, and ultimately I couldn't justify putting myself & my wife through it again even if they would let me take it.

**Sorry guys, messed up and reset the poll. Please re-vote

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Samara
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Re: Retake question- What's the break point?

Postby Samara » Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:41 pm

haha, wait until you get your score, bro.

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Nammertat
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Re: Retake question- What's the break point?

Postby Nammertat » Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:43 pm

Samara wrote:haha, wait until you get your score, bro.


Trust me I'd much prefer to do it that way.... I HAVE to let my job know if I'll be there another year BY July 6th, and thus I HAVE to know my break point prior to the score coming out.

abc12345675
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Re: Retake question- What's the break point?

Postby abc12345675 » Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:44 pm

Nammertat wrote:
abc12345675 wrote:
Nammertat wrote:Hello all-

Currently I'm a 159/4.0 (NON-urm, decent softs), and have dialed down all of my options to UC Davis with 39k/year. I want either DC or NorCal, hence the Davis choice.

Yesterday I took my 3rd LSAT and after another 6 months of study it felt pretty good, however there is always room for failure on this terrible test. With scores coming in early July, I'll have less than 4 weeks to either:

A) Move to Davis and live happily ever after
B) Take my new score to Penn/UVA who I'm waitlisted with
C) Realize my new score is awesome and wait/reapply next cycle

Here's the real question- At what point does it make serious sense, considering the massive $$ to Davis, to wait and re-apply. (Poll at the top)


I'd retake until I got a 168. You cannot waste a 4.0. I repeat CANNOT. Get a 168 and go to Boalt. Enjoy any NorCal job you'd like.


It's definitely possible I scored in that range yesterday. I've been Pting in the low 170s, and of course Berkeley is my #1. I applied this year and made it through FR2 before being dinged.

However, there is a rule against taking the test more than 3 times in 2 years. Another retake is not in the cards at this point, and ultimately I couldn't justify putting myself & my wife through it again even if they would let me take it.

**Sorry guys, messed up and reset the poll. Please re-vote


I don't think you'd like to put your wife through stressful job searches, either. You'd be better off, if you don't hit your target, to keep doing what you're doing, retake again when you can, and get to Boalt. I cannot stress enough the importance of not wasting a 4.0.

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Doorkeeper
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Re: Retake question- What's the break point?

Postby Doorkeeper » Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:46 pm

With a 4.0, anything at or above a 165 gets you into the T14, possibly with $$. Definitely in with $$ with a 167.

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Samara
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Re: Retake question- What's the break point?

Postby Samara » Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:48 pm

Doorkeeper wrote:With a 4.0, anything at or above a 165 gets you into the T14, possibly with $$. Definitely in with $$ with a 167.

Yeah, this. Even a 164 is the 25th percentile at Berkeley. So, I guess 165 is probably your target.

I don't entirely understand the options, though.

abc12345675
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Re: Retake question- What's the break point?

Postby abc12345675 » Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:49 pm

Doorkeeper wrote:With a 4.0, anything at or above a 165 gets you into the T14, possibly with $$. Definitely in with $$ with a 167.


Precisely my point. Do.Not.Settle.For.Davis!!!! I would pull out my eyeballs with a pair of plyers for a 4.0. Do not settle for less a T14.

Your wife will LOVE the trips you can take her on and the house you can buy her with your biglaw salary. And she will quickly forget the extra year you dragged out the law school process.

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Nammertat
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Re: Retake question- What's the break point?

Postby Nammertat » Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:53 pm

abc12345675 wrote:
Doorkeeper wrote:With a 4.0, anything at or above a 165 gets you into the T14, possibly with $$. Definitely in with $$ with a 167.


Precisely my point. Do.Not.Settle.For.Davis!!!! I would pull out my eyeballs with a pair of plyers for a 4.0. Do not settle for less a T14.

Your wife will LOVE the trips you can take her on and the house you can buy her with your biglaw salary. And she will quickly forget the extra year you dragged out the law school process.


I am with all of you on this!! That's the entire reason I took the test for a 3rd time... By no means am I against waiting and re-apply if it legitimately makes sense for $$ and T14 reasons. BUT if it comes back and I get a 162 or worse, my decision is made up for me. My vote is either 163-164 being the break, but it seems others are thinking higher.

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Doorkeeper
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Re: Retake question- What's the break point?

Postby Doorkeeper » Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:45 pm

Nammertat wrote:
abc12345675 wrote:
Doorkeeper wrote:With a 4.0, anything at or above a 165 gets you into the T14, possibly with $$. Definitely in with $$ with a 167.


Precisely my point. Do.Not.Settle.For.Davis!!!! I would pull out my eyeballs with a pair of plyers for a 4.0. Do not settle for less a T14.

Your wife will LOVE the trips you can take her on and the house you can buy her with your biglaw salary. And she will quickly forget the extra year you dragged out the law school process.


I am with all of you on this!! That's the entire reason I took the test for a 3rd time... By no means am I against waiting and re-apply if it legitimately makes sense for $$ and T14 reasons. BUT if it comes back and I get a 162 or worse, my decision is made up for me. My vote is either 163-164 being the break, but it seems others are thinking higher.

I mean if you want to work in CA after law school, it's either T14, USC/UCLA, or Davis/Hastings. Around a 160-164, you'll be WL or accepted to USC/UCLA. With a 165, you'll get into somewhere in the T14, possibly with $.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Retake question- What's the break point?

Postby CanadianWolf » Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:50 pm

With a 4.0 GPA, anything above a 162 should substantially change your options. If you are currently employed and get a 161 or higher, then reapply since next year should be easier regarding admissions due to fewer applications to law schools. If you're waitlisted at Penn & Virginia this cycle as a non-URM with a 159, then a 161/4.0 with an additional year of work experience & maturity should help in a less competitive application cycle. Reapply because you'll be paid twice: your work earnings & scholarship money or biglaw placement.

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Nammertat
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Re: Retake question- What's the break point?

Postby Nammertat » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:01 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:With a 4.0 GPA, anything above a 162 should substantially change your options. If you are currently employed and get a 161 or higher, then reapply since next year should be easier regarding admissions due to fewer applications to law schools. If you're waitlisted at Penn & Virginia this cycle as a non-URM with a 159, then a 161/4.0 with an additional year of work experience & maturity should help in a less competitive application cycle. Reapply because you'll be paid twice: your work earnings & scholarship money or biglaw placement.


I think all the points you make here are valid. It should also be known that my job is closely tied to IP, which I intend to practice in. Any additional work experience will be beneficial to T14's.

I'm a bit concerned that a 161 wouldn't make enough of a difference. I think I need to spend some time on LSN and really dial in some stats. Unfortunately softs don't show through in the #'s on there! REALLY looking to get some knowledge/insight out of the TLS community on this one... Surprisingly few trolls hitting this (albeit awkward) thread.

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Nammertat
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Re: Retake question- What's the break point?

Postby Nammertat » Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:08 pm

One other thing to consider- My applications last time went in mid December... this time it'll be september/whenever each school becomes available.

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rickgrimes69
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Re: Retake question- What's the break point?

Postby rickgrimes69 » Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:03 pm

If you waste a 4.0 on a mid-160 LSAT, you are a very silly person.

abc12345675
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Re: Retake question- What's the break point?

Postby abc12345675 » Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:05 pm

rickgrimes69 wrote:If you waste a 4.0 on a mid-160 LSAT, you are a very silly person.


No he's not. if he got to 166 he'd have a very good shot at Boalt. Which is his dream school. Fact is 166 is probably all he needs

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Nammertat
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Re: Retake question- What's the break point?

Postby Nammertat » Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:08 pm

abc12345675 wrote:
rickgrimes69 wrote:If you waste a 4.0 on a mid-160 LSAT, you are a very silly person.


No he's not. if he got to 166 he'd have a very good shot at Boalt. Which is his dream school. Fact is 166 is probably all he needs


^ This.

*a 165+ to me is an obvious sit out and re-apply situation. The 163-164 area is really where I'm begging for help deciding!

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rickgrimes69
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Re: Retake question- What's the break point?

Postby rickgrimes69 » Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:55 pm

abc12345675 wrote:
rickgrimes69 wrote:If you waste a 4.0 on a mid-160 LSAT, you are a very silly person.


No he's not. if he got to 166 he'd have a very good shot at Boalt. Which is his dream school. Fact is 166 is probably all he needs


Oh I forgot that Berk is completely predictable and not a black box at all so yeah 'probably' should be good enough odds

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Nammertat
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Re: Retake question- What's the break point?

Postby Nammertat » Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:59 pm

rickgrimes69 wrote:
abc12345675 wrote:
rickgrimes69 wrote:If you waste a 4.0 on a mid-160 LSAT, you are a very silly person.


No he's not. if he got to 166 he'd have a very good shot at Boalt. Which is his dream school. Fact is 166 is probably all he needs


Oh I forgot that Berk is completely predictable and not a black box at all so yeah 'probably' should be good enough odds


lolz... k so that's a valid argument.

gravityrides0
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Re: Retake question- What's the break point?

Postby gravityrides0 » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:56 pm

Sup Nammertat! I had a 4.0 and was waitlisted EVERYWHERE with my 165... While that was very stressful, the 165 eventually got me into GW, Penn, and UCLA... With that being said, my softs may have had some influence on how quickly I got off of waitlists. I had kind of an interesting resume with lots of research experience, work at a think tank, etc. (Penn and UCLA are both schools that value interdisciplinary scholarship, etc.) If your softs jive well with the schools you want you will have a shot with a 165, but it may mean a stressful cycle and some waitlists... I think a 163/164 is a total crapshoot, and a 167+ would mean a very good shot (though I'm not sure if the two retakes change that..) in any case, I hope you score what you were PTing... That would be the ticket! Best of luck!! :)

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Nammertat
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Re: Retake question- What's the break point?

Postby Nammertat » Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:19 pm

Thanks for the first-hand experience Gravity! I'm actually surprised this thread has gotten so few votes!

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Nammertat
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Re: Retake question- What's the break point?

Postby Nammertat » Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:05 pm

So I think the wording may have skewed the results a bit... Lots of people are saying to definitely wait and re-apply with a score improvement, but the results are showing 166 as a bottom line....

I'm not asking what I should test until I get, but rather, what score is high enough to warrant NOT going to Davis this fall?

A Big thanks to all who vote/comment here!

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flem
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Re: Retake question- What's the break point?

Postby flem » Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:08 pm

With anything in the 160s ED to UVA with that 4.0. Also try Boalt. Worst case scenario you work for a year and save some money and have the Davis option next year.

darkgrayclouds
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Re: Retake question- What's the break point?

Postby darkgrayclouds » Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:45 pm

I am in a similar situation. When I registered for the June LSAT, I intended to use my potentially improved score in an effort to get off the Stanford waiting list. However, when I informed Stanford of this plan, they told me that they will not be able to take my June score into consideration regarding my wait list candidacy. I don't know what stance UVA or Penn take on this issue, but you should check if you haven't done so already.

Best of luck to you! I intend to reapply next year if my June score turns out to be a 170+.

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auburnbelle89
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Re: Retake question- What's the break point?

Postby auburnbelle89 » Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:51 pm

OP, I was in a similar situation last year. I had the exact same LSAT and GPA and agonized over whether or not to go ahead and apply with that score or test again. I listened to TLS reasoning, studied, and retook the test. On my third retake I got a 163 (not what I wanted by any means since I was PTing around 170, but better than my other two scores). I got into UVA early on this cycle without ED. I would say that if you got at least a 162, sit out and reapply next cycle. Don't settle for Davis. My cycle was way more stressful than I would like, but it worked out extremely well thanks to my 4.0 (much much better than I anticipated). Aim higher next cycle, and even if you don't break the T14, you're looking at pretty big money at top regional schools.




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