BC $$ vs. RU-N $$$ need to decide by Monday

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ru2486
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BC $$ vs. RU-N $$$ need to decide by Monday

Postby ru2486 » Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:57 pm

Sorry to create another thread (wasn't sure how to bump my old thread while updating the information), but...

BC upped my scholly and awarded me a total of $20,000/year out of $45,000/tuition, plus cost of living 15k/year.

OR

I can also attend Rutgers Newark for $8,421/year after scholly and in-state tuition, with not much cost of living (I have can live at home).


I have pipe-dreams of biglaw/academia, but I'm scared of a massive amount of debt.

My geographic preferences run as follows: NYC > northern NJ > Philly/Boston > debtor's prison.

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rickgrimes69
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Re: BC $$ vs. RU-N $$$ need to decide by Monday

Postby rickgrimes69 » Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:54 pm

I dunno, graduating from BC with well over 100k in debt scares me a little. Does Rutgers have any stips on their scholly?

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ru2486
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Re: BC $$ vs. RU-N $$$ need to decide by Monday

Postby ru2486 » Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:00 pm

rickgrimes69 wrote:I dunno, graduating from BC with well over 100k in debt scares me a little. Does Rutgers have any stips on their scholly?


Yeah 3.0, which is median. They said over 80% retain their scholarships. I'm prepared to drop out if I can't achieve median.

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rickgrimes69
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Re: BC $$ vs. RU-N $$$ need to decide by Monday

Postby rickgrimes69 » Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:07 pm

ru2486 wrote:
rickgrimes69 wrote:I dunno, graduating from BC with well over 100k in debt scares me a little. Does Rutgers have any stips on their scholly?


Yeah 3.0, which is median. They said over 80% retain their scholarships. I'm prepared to drop out if I can't achieve median.


I feel like this is the safer route to go. BC places about 25% into Biglaw, and I wouldn't feel like gambling that much money on those odds. Rutgers will let you graduate with a reasonable amount of debt. I would, however, call them up and try to leverage BC's scholly against them if you haven't already, to get those stips removed or more $$$.

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ru2486
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Re: BC $$ vs. RU-N $$$ need to decide by Monday

Postby ru2486 » Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:24 am

I've already tried to negotiate twice with R-N but no give. I'll see if I can get the stips lowered or removed.

I think I'm looking for people to advocate for BC at that price tag at this point. What am I missing at BC by choosing Rutgers?

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manofjustice
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Re: BC $$ vs. RU-N $$$ need to decide by Monday

Postby manofjustice » Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:38 am

In this economy, there is a massive risk associated with going to a low-tier school. Whereas many BC graduates are not getting BigLaw (but 35% are: check --LinkRemoved-- ), many RU graduates are just not getting jobs at all.

20/year for BC is a great offer. You probably wouldn't have gotten it last year, and wouldn't get it next year. I'd take it.

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manofjustice
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Re: BC $$ vs. RU-N $$$ need to decide by Monday

Postby manofjustice » Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:39 am

And you're saying RU comes with a stip but BC doesn't?

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ru2486
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Re: BC $$ vs. RU-N $$$ need to decide by Monday

Postby ru2486 » Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:52 am

manofjustice wrote:And you're saying RU comes with a stip but BC doesn't?


The stip is 2.0 out of a 4.0, which is the minimum required to maintain good standing. So, not sure if that's a real stip, I just need to be full-time and in good-standing academically.


A lot of the advice on this site in choosing a law school seems to revolve around assuming one will end up at median of the class at the law school in question, rather than "hur-dur I'm a special snowflakez lolz gonna get top 5% and transfer."

So, with that in mind, is it better to be median at Boston College with $120k in debt gunning for biglaw or median at R-N with $25-30k in debt gunning for any job?

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manofjustice
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Re: BC $$ vs. RU-N $$$ need to decide by Monday

Postby manofjustice » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:08 am

ru2486 wrote:
manofjustice wrote:And you're saying RU comes with a stip but BC doesn't?


The stip is 2.0 out of a 4.0, which is the minimum required to maintain good standing. So, not sure if that's a real stip, I just need to be full-time and in good-standing academically.


A lot of the advice on this site in choosing a law school seems to revolve around assuming one will end up at median of the class at the law school in question, rather than "hur-dur I'm a special snowflakez lolz gonna get top 5% and transfer."

So, with that in mind, is it better to be median at Boston College with $120k in debt gunning for biglaw or median at R-N with $25-30k in debt gunning for any job?


Well, a couple of things. You have to know that. It all comes down to how ambitious you are. Everyone has a level of ambition and everyone's is not the same. Will you be happy getting yelled at by a really dumb judge as you represent a client during a 30 minute bench trial for simple assault? Or would you rather sit down and write a memo for an antitrust case against a big company and get yelled at by a really smart partner? How much does it matter? What do YOU really want to do? What do YOU want to have a shot at doing when you're an experienced, seasoned, dangerous attorney? Do you want to be in BigLaw then? Does that excite you? If it does, you have to do what you need to do to get there.

I'd also say: some research suggests that if you're median at BC you'll be higher-ranked at NU, but it's not clear that that would get BigLaw at NU. It might at least get you a job. But BigLaw is basically out at NU.

(Btw, a wild card is that if you go to BC, you have a shot at summering, and if you summer, that's 20 to 30 grand, bringing down your costs).

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Re: BC $$ vs. RU-N $$$ need to decide by Monday

Postby cinephile » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:26 am

You absolutely cannot assume that you'll be one of the 1/3 (if that these days) of BC students who ends up in biglaw. Pick a school where you'd feel comfortable graduating at the median. The odds are that you won't get biglaw from either of them. So thinking about it that way, would you rather be in a lower-paying job and be dealing with $25-30k debt, or paying of $120k?

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Re: BC $$ vs. RU-N $$$ need to decide by Monday

Postby manofjustice » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:46 am

cinephile wrote:You absolutely cannot assume that you'll be one of the 1/3 (if that these days) of BC students who ends up in biglaw. Pick a school where you'd feel comfortable graduating at the median. The odds are that you won't get biglaw from either of them. So thinking about it that way, would you rather be in a lower-paying job and be dealing with $25-30k debt, or paying of $120k?


It depends on what he wants. If he wants BigLaw, it's BC. If he doesn't want BigLaw all that much, it's RU.

At median at RU, he is not simply taking a "lower-paying job," he is risking no job. At median at BC, he is not simply taking a "non-BigLaw job," he is risking taking a job that forces him into IBR.

These are the choices. Only OP can know how much he wants to avoid debt and how much he wants BigLaw.

He's like a law exam hypo. The facts he presents precludes a straight answer. It's not as if he said "hey guys I want to be a DA in Jersey and I hate debt."

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cinephile
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Re: BC $$ vs. RU-N $$$ need to decide by Monday

Postby cinephile » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:50 am

manofjustice wrote:
cinephile wrote:You absolutely cannot assume that you'll be one of the 1/3 (if that these days) of BC students who ends up in biglaw. Pick a school where you'd feel comfortable graduating at the median. The odds are that you won't get biglaw from either of them. So thinking about it that way, would you rather be in a lower-paying job and be dealing with $25-30k debt, or paying of $120k?


It depends on what he wants. If he wants BigLaw, it's BC. If he doesn't want BigLaw all that much, it's RU.


No, not at all. If he (or she) wants big law, then s/he has to either withdraw from both these schools and wait out the waitlist for Georgetown, or retake the LSAT and aim higher.

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Doorkeeper
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Re: BC $$ vs. RU-N $$$ need to decide by Monday

Postby Doorkeeper » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:53 am

Does BC have any semblance of an LRAP program that would help to mitigate the impact of the debt if the OP isn't lucky enough to win the biglaw lottery?

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Re: BC $$ vs. RU-N $$$ need to decide by Monday

Postby manofjustice » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:08 am

Doorkeeper wrote:Does BC have any semblance of an LRAP program that would help to mitigate the impact of the debt if the OP wasn't lucky enough to win the biglaw lottery?


http://www.bc.edu/schools/law/services/career/students/public/lra.html
http://www.top-law-schools.com/tls-guide-to-lrap-boston-college.html

Income cap of $60,500. Awards of between $500 to $7,000. "Seems" award cap of 60% of debt.

abc12345675
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Re: BC $$ vs. RU-N $$$ need to decide by Monday

Postby abc12345675 » Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:29 pm

I'd go BC without hesitation. If you have any Biglaw dreams at all, it's BC. Plus just finding a regular non-biglaw job will be much easier out of there than Rutgers

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Re: BC $$ vs. RU-N $$$ need to decide by Monday

Postby manofjustice » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:05 pm

I just noticed how clever OPs username is.

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JCFindley
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Re: BC $$ vs. RU-N $$$ need to decide by Monday

Postby JCFindley » Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:50 am

This BC / Rutgers thing has got to be hurting your sleep patterns and sanity by now......

Its kind of like knowing two women like you..... They both want to go out next Friday night..... One, is average looking, low maintenance and is perfectly happy doing a nice evening in your hometown at the local beer and pizza place.... The other is just downright HOT, not super-model hot but she dresses and acts like she is and she is close. She wants you to fly to Boston and take her to the symphony on Friday night..... She also knew you were leaning towards the nice girl in NJ, (Who can be just as pretty when she feels like it.....) The Boston girl offers to pay for half of the date to sway you in that direction..... Oh, the choices. You know that even paying for half your date it will cost you a LOT more to go to Boston but still it is an exciting proposition.....

I have no real advice for ya this time. I would still take Rutgers but I am not particularly looking to go to biglaw. I would rather have the Judge yelling at me in a bench trial than ever have to write out a memo for an antitrust case..... But that is MY vision and you have to chase yours.....

I do think median at RU still gives you a fine chance of working as an attorney but it would more likely be work like my vision above. On the upside, with the debt you incur at RU you can afford such options..... The median job market out of BC though would likely give you a good shot at servicing that debt as well....

Oh, the choices......

JC

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ru2486
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Re: BC $$ vs. RU-N $$$ need to decide by Monday

Postby ru2486 » Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:18 pm

JCFindley wrote:This BC / Rutgers thing has got to be hurting your sleep patterns and sanity by now......

Its kind of like knowing two women like you..... They both want to go out next Friday night..... One, is average looking, low maintenance and is perfectly happy doing a nice evening in your hometown at the local beer and pizza place.... The other is just downright HOT, not super-model hot but she dresses and acts like she is and she is close. She wants you to fly to Boston and take her to the symphony on Friday night..... She also knew you were leaning towards the nice girl in NJ, (Who can be just as pretty when she feels like it.....) The Boston girl offers to pay for half of the date to sway you in that direction..... Oh, the choices. You know that even paying for half your date it will cost you a LOT more to go to Boston but still it is an exciting proposition.....

I have no real advice for ya this time. I would still take Rutgers but I am not particularly looking to go to biglaw. I would rather have the Judge yelling at me in a bench trial than ever have to write out a memo for an antitrust case..... But that is MY vision and you have to chase yours.....

I do think median at RU still gives you a fine chance of working as an attorney but it would more likely be work like my vision above. On the upside, with the debt you incur at RU you can afford such options..... The median job market out of BC though would likely give you a good shot at servicing that debt as well....

Oh, the choices......

JC


Thank you everybody for all of your constructive feedback and insights, TLS is a great community! I wanted to let you know that despite being offered an additional $5,000/year, I withdrew from BC (call me silly, stupid, risk-averse, etc.), but even then the price-tag was just too great to stomach.

Rutgers it is. JCFindley, this is for you.

I got no time for the corner boys
Down in the street making all that noise
Or the girls out on the avenue
'cause tonight I wanna be with you
Tonight I'm gonna take that ride
Across the river to the jersey side
Take my baby to the carnival
And I'll take her on all the rides

'cause down the shore everything's all right
You and your baby on a saturday night
You know all my dreams come true
When I'm walking down the street with you

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JCFindley
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Re: BC $$ vs. RU-N $$$ need to decide by Monday

Postby JCFindley » Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:49 pm

ru2486 wrote:
JCFindley wrote:This BC / Rutgers thing has got to be hurting your sleep patterns and sanity by now......

Its kind of like knowing two women like you..... They both want to go out next Friday night..... One, is average looking, low maintenance and is perfectly happy doing a nice evening in your hometown at the local beer and pizza place.... The other is just downright HOT, not super-model hot but she dresses and acts like she is and she is close. She wants you to fly to Boston and take her to the symphony on Friday night..... She also knew you were leaning towards the nice girl in NJ, (Who can be just as pretty when she feels like it.....) The Boston girl offers to pay for half of the date to sway you in that direction..... Oh, the choices. You know that even paying for half your date it will cost you a LOT more to go to Boston but still it is an exciting proposition.....

I have no real advice for ya this time. I would still take Rutgers but I am not particularly looking to go to biglaw. I would rather have the Judge yelling at me in a bench trial than ever have to write out a memo for an antitrust case..... But that is MY vision and you have to chase yours.....

I do think median at RU still gives you a fine chance of working as an attorney but it would more likely be work like my vision above. On the upside, with the debt you incur at RU you can afford such options..... The median job market out of BC though would likely give you a good shot at servicing that debt as well....

Oh, the choices......

JC


Thank you everybody for all of your constructive feedback and insights, TLS is a great community! I wanted to let you know that despite being offered an additional $5,000/year, I withdrew from BC (call me silly, stupid, risk-averse, etc.), but even then the price-tag was just too great to stomach.

Rutgers it is. JCFindley, this is for you.

I got no time for the corner boys
Down in the street making all that noise
Or the girls out on the avenue
'cause tonight I wanna be with you
Tonight I'm gonna take that ride
Across the river to the jersey side
Take my baby to the carnival
And I'll take her on all the rides

'cause down the shore everything's all right
You and your baby on a saturday night
You know all my dreams come true
When I'm walking down the street with you


Congrats.... I think you will be happy with your choice.... Kill it and you still have a shot at NYC. Do well and you have a great shot at a JD job in NJ.... Worst case scenario you end up on the downside of the curve and your debt is no worse than a car payment so you have options without being in debtors prison.....




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