Fordham full price vs. American with $20K

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mscat
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Fordham full price vs. American with $20K

Postby mscat » Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:19 pm

I have been accepted at American and offered (what I consider) a generous financial aid package just over $20K. This award is guaranteed for my first year only. I am also on the waiting list at Georgetown (although I'm simply on the regular waiting list while Georgetown has a few 'preferred' waiting list subgroups of which I am not a part), so I'm making arrangements to move back to DC to attend American with the hopes that I'll be admitted to Georgetown sometime this summer, although that's looking less and less likely. I went to undergrad in DC and worked there for three years before moving abroad for grad school. I love DC and could see myself living there long term.

However, I have just found out that I've been accepted at Fordham off their waiting list. I have many friends in NYC and I love the city and I'd ultimately like to end up at a big firm, so Fordham seems like a good option. However, I presumably will not get any $ from them and will have to take on a lot of debt. Also, renting in NYC on a student budget is a scary proposition. And I would hate to make arrangements to move to NYC and enroll at Fordham only to be admitted at Georgetown later this summer ...

One last thing to note is that I left a serious boyfriend in DC when I moved away for grad school and he and I broke up a few months ago. I sort of love the idea of moving to a new city (NYC) and having a fresh start and not having to worry about running into my ex.

Does anyone have any thoughts?

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Scotchandsoda
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Re: Fordham full price vs. American with $20K

Postby Scotchandsoda » Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:31 pm

Fordham at sticker is not worth it; especially since it seems like you have strong ties to the DC area. It sucks about the EX, but I'd take a little awkwardness over 200k+ debt anyday. Have you tried negotiating with Fordham for some money? and also, try sending a LOCI to Georgetown.

Personally, I'd wait till I hear back from Georgetown. If its a no/go, is retaking and waiting a year an option?

Zionman
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Re: Fordham full price vs. American with $20K

Postby Zionman » Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:31 pm

I think id go F. here. even though F. isnt that great at "sticker".

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Scotchandsoda
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Re: Fordham full price vs. American with $20K

Postby Scotchandsoda » Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:36 pm

Both are regional schools, so OP, if retaking is not an option, and Georgetown does not pan out, where do you want to work? NY or DC? If NY, then Fordham. If DC, then American.

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Bronck
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Re: Fordham full price vs. American with $20K

Postby Bronck » Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:40 pm

Agreed, have you used up your 3 retakes? If not, it would be wise to retake, because both options are bad at that price point.

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flem
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Re: Fordham full price vs. American with $20K

Postby flem » Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:40 pm

Scotchandsoda wrote:Fordham at sticker is not worth it; especially since it seems like you have strong ties to the DC area. It sucks about the EX, but I'd take a little awkwardness over 200k+ debt anyday. Have you tried negotiating with Fordham for some money? and also, try sending a LOCI to Georgetown.

Personally, I'd wait till I hear back from Georgetown. If its a no/go, is retaking and waiting a year an option?


American is still going to be 200K+ worth of debt even with that scholarship.

Fordham at sticker is a risky gamble at best. I personally wouldn't go to American for free. I'd retake if you don't snag GULC off the waitlist.

abc12345675
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Re: Fordham full price vs. American with $20K

Postby abc12345675 » Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:44 pm

Fordham at sticker isn't as bad as people are making it out to be..........I know someone who was slightly over top half of his class there and got a SA job and full-time offer at a big law firm. Not because of any previous work experience either, he was a doorman before law school. As long as you're in the top half you should be okay if you work at networking while you're up there

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top30man
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Re: Fordham full price vs. American with $20K

Postby top30man » Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:46 pm

abc12345675 wrote:Fordham at sticker isn't as bad as people are making it out to be..........I know someone who was slightly over top half of his class there and got a SA job and full-time offer at a big law firm. Not because of any previous work experience either, he was a doorman before law school. As long as you're in the top half you should be okay if you work at networking while you're up there

I don't think this is true. Maybe with a single anecdote. But the last few years oci threads has basically made it seem pretty dicey outside the top 20 percent as so. It seemed feast or famine with top 10 percent on one side with everyone else on the other.

mscat
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Re: Fordham full price vs. American with $20K

Postby mscat » Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:48 pm

Fordham at sticker is not worth it; especially since it seems like you have strong ties to the DC area. It sucks about the EX, but I'd take a little awkwardness over 200k+ debt anyday. Have you tried negotiating with Fordham for some money? and also, try sending a LOCI to Georgetown.

Personally, I'd wait till I hear back from Georgetown. If its a no/go, is retaking and waiting a year an option?


I was just accepted, so I'm in the process of filling out financial aid forms. They told me there would be no merit scholarships available (but that's what I would expect for being admitted off the wait list), but I'm not sure what kind of need-based package I'd get.

I've sent in an LOCI to Georgetown, three additional recommendation letters and I've had an phone interview. But I know they sent an e-mail update to some wait-listed students last week and I didn't receive it.

I'm definitely not interested in waiting another year.

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rickgrimes69
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Re: Fordham full price vs. American with $20K

Postby rickgrimes69 » Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:49 pm

abc12345675 wrote:Fordham at sticker isn't as bad as people are making it out to be..........I know someone who was slightly over top half of his class there and got a SA job and full-time offer at a big law firm. Not because of any previous work experience either, he was a doorman before law school. As long as you're in the top half you should be okay if you work at networking while you're up there


Well that makes sense considering they place about half the class into biglaw right

mscat
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Re: Fordham full price vs. American with $20K

Postby mscat » Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:51 pm

Both are regional schools, so OP, if retaking is not an option, and Georgetown does not pan out, where do you want to work? NY or DC? If NY, then Fordham. If DC, then American.


I'd be happy to end up in NYC or DC, so it makes the decision tougher !!

rad lulz
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Re: Fordham full price vs. American with $20K

Postby rad lulz » Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:52 pm

Neither due to excessively mediocre job prospects for those lulzy prices. Unless you hit the biglaw lotto, it's gonna be like taking a huge diarrhea all over your personal finances.

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Bronck
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Re: Fordham full price vs. American with $20K

Postby Bronck » Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:52 pm

mscat wrote:I'm definitely not interested in waiting another year.


What does this even mean? Law school will always be there. It's a lot easier to retake and get into a better school than it is to be at the top of your class at a mediocre school.
Last edited by Bronck on Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:53 pm, edited 3 times in total.

rad lulz
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Re: Fordham full price vs. American with $20K

Postby rad lulz » Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:52 pm

rickgrimes69 wrote:
abc12345675 wrote:Fordham at sticker isn't as bad as people are making it out to be..........I know someone who was slightly over top half of his class there and got a SA job and full-time offer at a big law firm. Not because of any previous work experience either, he was a doorman before law school. As long as you're in the top half you should be okay if you work at networking while you're up there


Well that makes sense considering they place about half the class into biglaw right

Not anymore.

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flem
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Re: Fordham full price vs. American with $20K

Postby flem » Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:53 pm

mscat wrote:I'm definitely not interested in waiting another year.


You're more interested in going now and incurring 250K+ worth of debt at a school that gives you a 25% chance at getting a job that pays you well enough to service that debt?

Sounds like you've thought this through.

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rickgrimes69
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Re: Fordham full price vs. American with $20K

Postby rickgrimes69 » Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:54 pm

rad lulz wrote:
rickgrimes69 wrote:
abc12345675 wrote:Fordham at sticker isn't as bad as people are making it out to be..........I know someone who was slightly over top half of his class there and got a SA job and full-time offer at a big law firm. Not because of any previous work experience either, he was a doorman before law school. As long as you're in the top half you should be okay if you work at networking while you're up there


Well that makes sense considering they place about half the class into biglaw right

Not anymore.


forgot to /sarcasm

abc12345675
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Re: Fordham full price vs. American with $20K

Postby abc12345675 » Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:00 pm

rickgrimes69 wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
rickgrimes69 wrote:
abc12345675 wrote:Fordham at sticker isn't as bad as people are making it out to be..........I know someone who was slightly over top half of his class there and got a SA job and full-time offer at a big law firm. Not because of any previous work experience either, he was a doorman before law school. As long as you're in the top half you should be okay if you work at networking while you're up there


Well that makes sense considering they place about half the class into biglaw right

Not anymore.


forgot to /sarcasm


No reason to attack me as not making sense. I'm just reporting to you about the 1 person I know who went to Fordham, and that has been his experience. Maybe it was an outlier. Maybe he had some connection I didn't know about. But he is at Seward and Kissel out of Fordham at slightly about 50%

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Doorkeeper
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Re: Fordham full price vs. American with $20K

Postby Doorkeeper » Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:01 pm

Fordham at sticker is not good. American is the laughing stock of DC law schools and is not worth over 100k in debt. Fordham has the better job prospects, but it is NOT worth over 200k in debt.

Retake/Reapply if not accepted to Georgetown.

Move to NYC this summer and work as a paralegal or something. Retake and reapply for next year.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Fordham full price vs. American with $20K

Postby Tiago Splitter » Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:06 pm

abc12345675 wrote:No reason to attack me as not making sense. I'm just reporting to you about the 1 person I know who went to Fordham, and that has been his experience. Maybe it was an outlier. Maybe he had some connection I didn't know about. But he is at Seward and Kissel out of Fordham at slightly about 50%


I'm sure some people do get BigLaw with less than stellar grades. But here are the employment stats:

http://law.fordham.edu/career-planning/1776.htm

109 people out of 428 graduates got jobs with firms of 100+ attorneys.

mscat
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Re: Fordham full price vs. American with $20K

Postby mscat » Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:16 pm

What does this even mean? Law school will always be there. It's a lot easier to retake and get into a better school than it is to be at the top of your class at a mediocre school.


It's true that law school will always be there, but I've always performed well in school (I'm at the top of my class in my current master's program at the London School of Economics) and I've choked all three times I've taken the LSAT.


Fordham at sticker is not good. American is the laughing stock of DC law schools and is not worth over 100k in debt. Fordham has the better job prospects, but it is NOT worth over 200k in debt.

Retake/Reapply if not accepted to Georgetown.

Move to NYC this summer and work as a paralegal or something. Retake and reapply for next year.


I'm aware of American's reputation in DC, but I think the University of the District of Columbia is the laughing stock of DC law schools if there is one.

Before starting grad school I worked as a legal assistant in the DC office of a top law firm. I did really well there and established strong relationships with many attorneys at all levels who are either still at that firm or have moved on, so I think my job prospects are better than some.

Anyway, thanks for the input everyone. Aside from the unnecessary insults, your thoughts and suggestions have been helpful!

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flem
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Re: Fordham full price vs. American with $20K

Postby flem » Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:18 pm

mscat wrote:It's true that law school will always be there, but I've always performed well in school (I'm at the top of my class in my current master's program at the London School of Economics) and I've choked all three times I've taken the LSAT.

Before starting grad school I worked as a legal assistant in the DC office of a top law firm. I did really well there and established strong relationships with many attorneys at all levels who are either still at that firm or have moved on, so I think my job prospects are better than some.



rad lulz wrote:looks like we got ourselves a special snowflake, bros

abc12345675
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Re: Fordham full price vs. American with $20K

Postby abc12345675 » Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:19 pm

mscat wrote:
What does this even mean? Law school will always be there. It's a lot easier to retake and get into a better school than it is to be at the top of your class at a mediocre school.


It's true that law school will always be there, but I've always performed well in school (I'm at the top of my class in my current master's program at the London School of Economics) and I've choked all three times I've taken the LSAT.


Fordham at sticker is not good. American is the laughing stock of DC law schools and is not worth over 100k in debt. Fordham has the better job prospects, but it is NOT worth over 200k in debt.

Retake/Reapply if not accepted to Georgetown.

Move to NYC this summer and work as a paralegal or something. Retake and reapply for next year.


I'm aware of American's reputation in DC, but I think the University of the District of Columbia is the laughing stock of DC law schools if there is one.

Before starting grad school I worked as a legal assistant in the DC office of a top law firm. I did really well there and established strong relationships with many attorneys at all levels who are either still at that firm or have moved on, so I think my job prospects are better than some.

Anyway, thanks for the input everyone. Aside from the unnecessary insults, your thoughts and suggestions have been helpful!


That certainly helps your job prospects, but it isn't a slam dunk. You'll still need to make the grades. That firm isn't hiring you at median from American, regardless of whether they like you or not

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jenesaislaw
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Re: Fordham full price vs. American with $20K

Postby jenesaislaw » Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:21 pm

mscat wrote:Before starting grad school I worked as a legal assistant in the DC office of a top law firm. I did really well there and established strong relationships with many attorneys at all levels who are either still at that firm or have moved on, so I think my job prospects are better than some.


No, just no. Your job prospects are based on your grades and your school, not some tenuous connection to a top law firm.

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jenesaislaw
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Re: Fordham full price vs. American with $20K

Postby jenesaislaw » Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:23 pm

abc12345675 wrote:That firm isn't hiring you at median from American, regardless of whether they like you or not


That firm is almost for sure not hiring you if you're not top 10%. Maybe top 5% or top 5 overall if it's really one of the top DC firms.

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Re: Fordham full price vs. American with $20K

Postby timbs4339 » Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:26 pm

abc12345675 wrote:
No reason to attack me as not making sense. I'm just reporting to you about the 1 person I know who went to Fordham, and that has been his experience. Maybe it was an outlier. Maybe he had some connection I didn't know about. But he is at Seward and Kissel out of Fordham at slightly about 50%


It might not have been your intent, but the way you phrased it made it sound as if you were saying median students at Fordham are having no problem getting biglaw, which just isn't the case. You can't "network" your way into a biglaw job because they hire after the first year and unless your Dad is on the door they care about 1) school, 2) grades, 3) WE.




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