William and Mary vs Tulane vs Maryland

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

William and Mary ($), Tulane ($$), or Maryland ($)?

William and Mary
16
94%
Tulane
1
6%
Maryland
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 17

dtig
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William and Mary vs Tulane vs Maryland

Postby dtig » Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:19 pm

So, I've accepted Tulane with a 25k/year scholarship (COA 64K). This week though, I got a call from Maryland saying they were going to offer me $$--stay tuned for the amount, and then I got another call from William and Mary offering me admission off of the waitlist + 12k/year (COA 55k).

I want to go into public interest law, and ideally work for a DC non-profit. I've visited Tulane and loved it- the campus and the city. I have not visited w&m, but am concerned about being in the middle of nowhere Virginia- thus with less externship and community engagement opportunities. Location doesn't really matter though if one will put me in a better place job wise then another.
Last edited by dtig on Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

abc12345675
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Re: William and Mary vs Tulane vs Maryland

Postby abc12345675 » Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:31 pm

Want to work in DC? William and Mary no question, then.

rad lulz
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Re: William and Mary vs Tulane vs Maryland

Postby rad lulz » Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:52 pm

How is your COA so low? Outside funding? Are you not including cost of living?

dtig
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Re: William and Mary vs Tulane vs Maryland

Postby dtig » Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:57 pm

rad lulz wrote:How is your COA so low? Outside funding? Are you not including cost of living?


What do you mean? That's the COA quoted on their websites:

http://law.wm.edu/admissions/cost/index.php
http://www.law.tulane.edu/tlsadmissions ... x?id=14683 Well, apparently Tulane as gone up to 66K last I checked

dtig
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Re: William and Mary vs Tulane vs Maryland

Postby dtig » Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:58 pm

dtig wrote:
rad lulz wrote:How is your COA so low? Outside funding? Are you not including cost of living?


What do you mean? That's the COA quoted on their websites:

http://law.wm.edu/admissions/cost/index.php
http://www.law.tulane.edu/tlsadmissions ... x?id=14683 Well, apparently Tulane as gone up to 66K last I checked


I meant per year- not for all three years, if that's what you mean.

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flem
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Re: William and Mary vs Tulane vs Maryland

Postby flem » Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:59 pm

dtig wrote:What do you mean? That's the COA quoted on their websites:

http://law.wm.edu/admissions/cost/index.php
http://www.law.tulane.edu/tlsadmissions ... x?id=14683 Well, apparently Tulane as gone up to 66K last I checked


Oh, per year.

Neither, retake or don't go to high debt and poor to mediocre job prospects

rad lulz
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Re: William and Mary vs Tulane vs Maryland

Postby rad lulz » Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:59 pm

flem wrote:
dtig wrote:What do you mean? That's the COA quoted on their websites:

http://law.wm.edu/admissions/cost/index.php
http://www.law.tulane.edu/tlsadmissions ... x?id=14683 Well, apparently Tulane as gone up to 66K last I checked


Oh, per year.

Neither, retake or don't go to high debt and poor to mediocre job prospects

Yep.

dtig
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Re: William and Mary vs Tulane vs Maryland

Postby dtig » Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:02 pm

rad lulz wrote:
flem wrote:
dtig wrote:What do you mean? That's the COA quoted on their websites:

http://law.wm.edu/admissions/cost/index.php
http://www.law.tulane.edu/tlsadmissions ... x?id=14683 Well, apparently Tulane as gone up to 66K last I checked


Oh, per year.

Neither, retake or don't go to high debt and poor to mediocre job prospects

Yep.


You know that's always the answer everyone gives on this site, and it's not very helpful. I'm going to law school this fall- i've quit my job at a national non-profit, and have given notice at my apartment, so retaking is not an option. Any other thoughts?

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flem
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Re: William and Mary vs Tulane vs Maryland

Postby flem » Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:04 pm

dtig wrote:You know that's always the answer everyone gives on this site, and it's not very helpful. I'm going to law school this fall- i've quit my job at a national non-profit, and have given notice at my apartment, so retaking is not an option. Any other thoughts?


Pray to the deity of your choice?

You're looking at 150K plus worth of debt for schools that are leaving 25% of their class or more completely unemployed. People repeat the mantra of retake or don't go because there are very few schools and circumstances that warrant taking out that kind of money in loans.

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twenty
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Re: William and Mary vs Tulane vs Maryland

Postby twenty » Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:07 pm

Every person I keep talking to on this site keeps saying the world is round, and it's not very helpful. I'm going to believe that the world is flat- I've invested in a company that says they can set me up with real estate in a prime corner of the earth, and I told all my friends, so going back on that is not an option.


philistines.

rad lulz
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Re: William and Mary vs Tulane vs Maryland

Postby rad lulz » Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:09 pm

dtig wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
flem wrote:
dtig wrote:What do you mean? That's the COA quoted on their websites:

http://law.wm.edu/admissions/cost/index.php
http://www.law.tulane.edu/tlsadmissions ... x?id=14683 Well, apparently Tulane as gone up to 66K last I checked


Oh, per year.

Neither, retake or don't go to high debt and poor to mediocre job prospects

Yep.


You know that's always the answer everyone gives on this site, and it's not very helpful. I'm going to law school this fall- i've quit my job at a national non-profit, and have given notice at my apartment, so retaking is not an option. Any other thoughts?

You wouldn't get that answer of you had better options at saner prices, or even those options at saner prices.

$150k debt plus interest almost necessitates big law to pay off. God look at the chances of biglaw from those schools. Weep silently.

dtig
Posts: 19
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Re: William and Mary vs Tulane vs Maryland

Postby dtig » Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:09 pm

flem wrote:
dtig wrote:You know that's always the answer everyone gives on this site, and it's not very helpful. I'm going to law school this fall- i've quit my job at a national non-profit, and have given notice at my apartment, so retaking is not an option. Any other thoughts?


Pray to the deity of your choice?

You're looking at 150K plus worth of debt for schools that are leaving 25% of their class or more completely unemployed. People repeat the mantra of retake or don't go because there are very few schools and circumstances that warrant taking out that kind of money in loans.


I'll only be taking on 80k or so from W&M and about 65K from Tulane, because of other financial means + the scholarship money.

Besides- law school is cheaper than buying a house- I don't plan on doing that, so I might as well get a degree that I will use. I"m not going to law school on a whim. I've been working in my field for 3 years, and know exactly the kind of law I want to practice, and know that I can't get to where I want to go without a law degree. I'm not fresh out of undergraduate hoping to make big bank at a big firm because I don't know what else to do with my life.

FlanSolo
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Re: William and Mary vs Tulane vs Maryland

Postby FlanSolo » Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:11 pm

My SO goes to W&M and just finished her 1L year. She's working in DC this summer for a non-profit. I visit there very frequently, so know a bit about the area and school. Someone from W&M may have more information for you, but I wouldn't worry too much about Williamsburg. It's true that it's small, but as a 1L, you will be pretty damn busy, and the size probably helps make it a little bit more manageable. The class size is pretty small though, and it seems like everyone knows each other's business. If I'm not mistaken, Maryland's class size is even smaller, so I imagine it's much the same there.

It's probably going to be more difficult to get something in DC out of Tulane unless you have family in the area. Not necessarily because DC non-profits are looking for locals, but just because of the logistics. Being here - or close by - will help you network a lot better, which is going to be important for getting non-profit work. Maryland probably makes this easier, but W&M is a reasonable train ride away, so won't make your life nearly as hard as Tulane would.

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Ruxin1
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Re: William and Mary vs Tulane vs Maryland

Postby Ruxin1 » Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:11 pm

dtig wrote:
flem wrote:
dtig wrote:You know that's always the answer everyone gives on this site, and it's not very helpful. I'm going to law school this fall- i've quit my job at a national non-profit, and have given notice at my apartment, so retaking is not an option. Any other thoughts?


Pray to the deity of your choice?

You're looking at 150K plus worth of debt for schools that are leaving 25% of their class or more completely unemployed. People repeat the mantra of retake or don't go because there are very few schools and circumstances that warrant taking out that kind of money in loans.


I'll only be taking on 80k or so from W&M and about 65K from Tulane, because of other financial means + the scholarship money.

Besides- law school is cheaper than buying a house- I don't plan on doing that, so I might as well get a degree that I will use. I"m not going to law school on a whim. I've been working in my field for 3 years, and know exactly the kind of law I want to practice, and know that I can't get to where I want to go without a law degree. I'm not fresh out of undergraduate hoping to make big bank at a big firm because I don't know what else to do with my life.


IN THAT CASE - retake so you can get into a school with a legit LRAP

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flem
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Re: William and Mary vs Tulane vs Maryland

Postby flem » Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:12 pm

dtig wrote:I'll only be taking on 80k or so from W&M and about 65K from Tulane, because of other financial means + the scholarship money.


Why didn't you say this?

At that cost either of those is fine, but you're not going to get to DC with them unless you're at the tippity top of your class, so just be cool with working in New Orleans or somewhere in Virginia that likely isn't NOVA

FlanSolo
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Re: William and Mary vs Tulane vs Maryland

Postby FlanSolo » Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:16 pm

flem wrote:At that cost either of those is fine, but you're not going to get to DC with them unless you're at the tippity top of your class, so just be cool with working in New Orleans or somewhere in Virginia that likely isn't NOVA


You might want to ask some 3Ls or grads, but I'm pretty sure this is wrong. You won't need to be in the tippy-top of your class to work for a non-profit in DC. Especially if you're driven and know what you want to do, employers will be more interested in knowing that the cause is important to you. Obviously, don't fuck up in law school, but it's not like you're going to need be top 10 percent or something.

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flem
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Re: William and Mary vs Tulane vs Maryland

Postby flem » Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:17 pm

FlanSolo wrote:
You might want to ask some 3Ls or grads, but I'm pretty sure this is wrong. You won't need to be in the tippy-top of your class to work for a non-profit in DC. Especially if you're driven and know what you want to do, employers will be more interested in knowing that the cause is important to you. Obviously, don't fuck up in law school, but it's not like you're going to need be top 10 percent or something.


Worthwhile PI is harder to get than biglaw due to hiring freezes and budget shortfalls.

HTH

dtig
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Re: William and Mary vs Tulane vs Maryland

Postby dtig » Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:20 pm

FlanSolo wrote:My SO goes to W&M and just finished her 1L year. She's working in DC this summer for a non-profit. I visit there very frequently, so know a bit about the area and school. Someone from W&M may have more information for you, but I wouldn't worry too much about Williamsburg. It's true that it's small, but as a 1L, you will be pretty damn busy, and the size probably helps make it a little bit more manageable. The class size is pretty small though, and it seems like everyone knows each other's business. If I'm not mistaken, Maryland's class size is even smaller, so I imagine it's much the same there.

It's probably going to be more difficult to get something in DC out of Tulane unless you have family in the area. Not necessarily because DC non-profits are looking for locals, but just because of the logistics. Being here - or close by - will help you network a lot better, which is going to be important for getting non-profit work. Maryland probably makes this easier, but W&M is a reasonable train ride away, so won't make your life nearly as hard as Tulane would.


Thanks for perspective. That's very encouraging. Is she getting paid for her internship or is it for credit? I saw that w&m has summer school in DC, I thought maybe I could potentially do a summer school class plus a non-profit externship my first summer.

Does she like it overall?

FlanSolo wrote:
flem wrote:At that cost either of those is fine, but you're not going to get to DC with them unless you're at the tippity top of your class, so just be cool with working in New Orleans or somewhere in Virginia that likely isn't NOVA


The one concern I have for NOLA is that I don't want to get stuck in NOLA or in Texas (Where I am now).

FlanSolo wrote:
flem wrote:You might want to ask some 3Ls or grads, but I'm pretty sure this is wrong. You won't need to be in the tippy-top of your class to work for a non-profit in DC. Especially if you're driven and know what you want to do, employers will be more interested in knowing that the cause is important to you. Obviously, don't fuck up in law school, but it's not like you're going to need be top 10 percent or something.


That's my general thought as well. I know in the organization I'm in now, dedication and experiance is what talks.

FlanSolo
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Re: William and Mary vs Tulane vs Maryland

Postby FlanSolo » Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:28 pm

dtig wrote:Thanks for perspective. That's very encouraging. Is she getting paid for her internship or is it for credit? I saw that w&m has summer school in DC, I thought maybe I could potentially do a summer school class plus a non-profit externship my first summer.

Does she like it overall? [...]

That's my general thought as well. I know in the organization I'm in now, dedication and experiance is what talks.


It's her situation to talk about, not mine; but she's doing well. She likes W&M, and while I think it's safe to say she gets frustrated by Williamsburg from time to time, she thinks it's a good place to go to law school, and is glad she's going.

Also, w/r/t to hiring freezes in non-profit work, that won't last forever, and because the hiring isn't necessarily like biglaw (based only on 1L), you'll have a lot more time for the economy to improve. While the economy may make it as "hard" as biglaw (I doubt this), the criteria used for evaluating students is still different. To the extent they are hiring, they are going to want people who are motivated and interested in the cause, not biglaw types who are settling.

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Doorkeeper
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Re: William and Mary vs Tulane vs Maryland

Postby Doorkeeper » Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:06 pm

Tulane is off the table if you want to have any chance at DC. W&M at 40k per year is too much.

This being said, if you're serious about DC non-profit work, retake and reapply. It's a bloodbath here for those jobs. You'll be competing with T14 kids for everything.
Last edited by Doorkeeper on Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

abc12345675
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Re: William and Mary vs Tulane vs Maryland

Postby abc12345675 » Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:08 pm

Doorkeeper wrote:Tulane is off the table if you want to have any chance at DC. W&M at 40k per year is too much.

Maryland is right on the Metro to get into DC for internships during the semester. If the price is right (under 25-30k per year), you might want to consider it.

This being said, if you're serious about DC non-profit work, retake and reapply. It's a bloodbath here for those jobs. You'll be competing with T14 kids for everything.


Maryland law is in downtown Baltimore. Not on the College Park campus and nowhere near the metro obviously. Please disregard this man's nonsense advice about going there for DC jobs.

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Doorkeeper
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Re: William and Mary vs Tulane vs Maryland

Postby Doorkeeper » Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:13 pm

abc12345675 wrote:
Doorkeeper wrote:Tulane is off the table if you want to have any chance at DC. W&M at 40k per year is too much.

Maryland is right on the Metro to get into DC for internships during the semester. If the price is right (under 25-30k per year), you might want to consider it.

This being said, if you're serious about DC non-profit work, retake and reapply. It's a bloodbath here for those jobs. You'll be competing with T14 kids for everything.


Maryland law is in downtown Baltimore. Not on the College Park campus and nowhere near the metro obviously. Please disregard this man's nonsense advice about going there for DC jobs.

Ah. I had no idea. Edited for accuracy.

Also, no need to be so hostile there.

dtig
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Re: William and Mary vs Tulane vs Maryland

Postby dtig » Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:34 pm

Doorkeeper wrote:Tulane is off the table if you want to have any chance at DC. W&M at 40k per year is too much.

This being said, if you're serious about DC non-profit work, retake and reapply. It's a bloodbath here for those jobs. You'll be competing with T14 kids for everything.


I am very serious about DC non-profit work. I also know, coming from the non-profit world currently, that passion and experience count for a whole lot. I'm banking on putting a laser focus on the particular non-profit I really want to work for (which I work for now in a different capacity), and doing as many externships/free things I can for them while I'm in school and during the summers, and hopefully they will want to pick me up after school.

I don't know, I feel like if I do enough while in school, I"ll be able to catch up to some t14 kids who just studied to stay afloat.




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