UT Austin vs. Alabama - The Final Showdown

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DesperateNWaiting
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UT Austin vs. Alabama - The Final Showdown

Postby DesperateNWaiting » Thu May 31, 2012 12:26 am

Some of you might have very well seen some of my previous posts in which I desperately sought some singular answer to my law school decision dilemma. I am back.

I have been trying to decide between the University of Texas at Austin and the University of Alabama for quite some time now. I had firmly decided on Alabama for financial reasons, but when I sent in my withdrawal to Texas, they gave me more money. I am 20, a recent college grad, an Alabama native, and I really weight financial stability and employment opportunity about the same. I want to have the opportunity to make the big bucks, but the freedom to take a job that would allow me to get married, have kids, and live a comfortable life.

Here is the breakdown:
-University of Alabama (US News 29)
$20,000/year scholarship, contingent on Top 40%. Tuition is only $18,000, so the little bit extra would just be pocketed.
Free. Free. Free. Free. Free.

-University of Texas at Austin (US News 16)
After scholarships, grants, and an NRTE, tuition costs are $19,300 for the first year. Financial aid claims that if I am able to establish residency, they will throw me a bone to compensate for the loss of the non-resident tuition exemption. Total cost in tuition over three years would range from $50,000 to $62,000 depending on total increase in tuition over three years and the increase in various scholarships.

Tuition is totally on me, and I will have to take out the total cost of tuition in unsubsidized Stafford loans (6.8%) to cover the tuition at Texas. My parents will either be covering rent/food completely or lending me the money at little to no interest.

I don't care about geography. I'm not afraid of the debt, but I don't want to be swallowed up by it. I'm willing to work my ass of at either school. My greatest fears are that if I go to Alabama, I won't have the opportunities available to me that I would have at Texas, and that if I go to Texas, then I might join the ranks of poor-ass law grads living on food stamps if I cannot secure a good job.

If you can provide any insight or words of wisdom, my ears are yours.

Edit: Monday deadline, by the way.

de5igual
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Re: UT Austin vs. Alabama - The Final Showdown

Postby de5igual » Thu May 31, 2012 12:48 am

DesperateNWaiting wrote:Some of you might have very well seen some of my previous posts in which I desperately sought some singular answer to my law school decision dilemma. I am back.

I have been trying to decide between the University of Texas at Austin and the University of Alabama for quite some time now. I had firmly decided on Alabama for financial reasons, but when I sent in my withdrawal to Texas, they gave me more money. I am 20, a recent college grad, an Alabama native, and I really weight financial stability and employment opportunity about the same. I want to have the opportunity to make the big bucks, but the freedom to take a job that would allow me to get married, have kids, and live a comfortable life.

Here is the breakdown:
-University of Alabama (US News 29)
$20,000/year scholarship, contingent on Top 40%. Tuition is only $18,000, so the little bit extra would just be pocketed.
Free. Free. Free. Free. Free.

-University of Texas at Austin (US News 16)
After scholarships, grants, and an NRTE, tuition costs are $19,300 for the first year. Financial aid claims that if I am able to establish residency, they will throw me a bone to compensate for the loss of the non-resident tuition exemption. Total cost in tuition over three years would range from $50,000 to $62,000 depending on total increase in tuition over three years and the increase in various scholarships.

Tuition is totally on me, and I will have to take out the total cost of tuition in unsubsidized Stafford loans (6.8%) to cover the tuition at Texas. My parents will either be covering rent/food completely or lending me the money at little to no interest.

I don't care about geography. I'm not afraid of the debt, but I don't want to be swallowed up by it. I'm willing to work my ass of at either school. My greatest fears are that if I go to Alabama, I won't have the opportunities available to me that I would have at Texas, and that if I go to Texas, then I might join the ranks of poor-ass law grads living on food stamps if I cannot secure a good job.

If you can provide any insight or words of wisdom, my ears are yours.

Edit: Monday deadline, by the way.


Can you use your TX $$ to negotiate the stips off the Alabama scholarship? Top 40% is pretty harsh. If not, UT for only $60-70K is really damn good, and makes it much more likely to land you a job to pay off that debt than Alabama at equal or higher costs (which it will be once/if you lose the scholly).

DesperateNWaiting
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Re: UT Austin vs. Alabama - The Final Showdown

Postby DesperateNWaiting » Thu May 31, 2012 12:52 am

f0bolous wrote:
Can you use your TX $$ to negotiate the stips off the Alabama scholarship? Top 40% is pretty harsh. If not, UT for only $60-70K is really damn good, and makes it much more likely to land you a job to pay off that debt than Alabama at equal or higher costs (which it will be once/if you lose the scholly).


I honestly never even thought of the class rank requirement as a threat, but I guess no one does until they've lost the scholarship. I'll have to look into that.

de5igual
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Re: UT Austin vs. Alabama - The Final Showdown

Postby de5igual » Thu May 31, 2012 12:59 am

DesperateNWaiting wrote:
f0bolous wrote:
Can you use your TX $$ to negotiate the stips off the Alabama scholarship? Top 40% is pretty harsh. If not, UT for only $60-70K is really damn good, and makes it much more likely to land you a job to pay off that debt than Alabama at equal or higher costs (which it will be once/if you lose the scholly).


I honestly never even thought of the class rank requirement as a threat, but I guess no one does until they've lost the scholarship. I'll have to look into that.


definitely get them removed. otherwise, going to Bama is an objectively bad decision, even if you want to practice in AL. UT w/ ties will most likely get you back (I know of people with no ties to Alabama (but southern/southeast ties) who went to Birmingham 1L summer).

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: UT Austin vs. Alabama - The Final Showdown

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Thu May 31, 2012 7:31 am

I think that overall, UT is the much stronger option here.

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TexasAggie13
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Re: UT Austin vs. Alabama - The Final Showdown

Postby TexasAggie13 » Thu May 31, 2012 7:51 am

If you can negotiate with Bama about the scholarship stips I would probably go Bama. If not go to UT. It would be awful to end up forfeiting the scholarship and paying the same price (if not even a little bit more) for inferior job prospects.

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top30man
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Re: UT Austin vs. Alabama - The Final Showdown

Postby top30man » Thu May 31, 2012 8:35 am

dixiecupdrinking wrote:I think that overall, UT is the much stronger option here.

Agreed. That's not too much debt for UT.

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PennBull
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Re: UT Austin vs. Alabama - The Final Showdown

Postby PennBull » Thu May 31, 2012 8:46 am

Scholarship stipulations suck and should be avoided however possible.

CanadianWolf
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Re: UT Austin vs. Alabama - The Final Showdown

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu May 31, 2012 9:43 am

Texas is the better investment, in my opinion, unless you are certain that you want to remain in Alabama after law school & can get the top 40% stipulation removed or lessened.

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: UT Austin vs. Alabama - The Final Showdown

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Thu May 31, 2012 11:51 am

DesperateNWaiting wrote:
I had firmly decided on Alabama for financial reasons, but when I sent in my withdrawal to Texas, they gave me more money.


Love how T 20 law schools behave exactly like used car salesmen.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: UT Austin vs. Alabama - The Final Showdown

Postby JamMasterJ » Thu May 31, 2012 11:58 am

Texas. This is only a debate if you get the stips removed.

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akili
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Re: UT Austin vs. Alabama - The Final Showdown

Postby akili » Thu May 31, 2012 12:01 pm

Definitely Texas. That Alabama stipulation is bad news.

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PennBull
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Re: UT Austin vs. Alabama - The Final Showdown

Postby PennBull » Thu May 31, 2012 2:54 pm

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:
DesperateNWaiting wrote:
I had firmly decided on Alabama for financial reasons, but when I sent in my withdrawal to Texas, they gave me more money.


Love how T 20 law schools behave exactly like used car salesmen.


If you think T20 schools are bad, check out the swindling horseshit TTTs do.

Aqualibrium
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Re: UT Austin vs. Alabama - The Final Showdown

Postby Aqualibrium » Thu May 31, 2012 3:08 pm

If you do decide to go to Alabama, I'd ask them that your scholarship be changed to full tuition and a book stipend rather than the flat amount. For the first year, sure you'll pocket 2k, by the second year you'll be either coming out even or paying a couple 100, by the third year you'll be paying 2k. With a full tuition scholarship, your scholarship adjusts with tuition increases, and even if the book stipend is a couple hundred per semester, you always come out with a little money in your pocket.

This is straight from my experience btw...my friends with flat amounts complained for two years about tuition increases, I never even looked at my student bill, didn't ever even know how much tuition was, because I didn't have to worry about it.

jms1987
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Re: UT Austin vs. Alabama - The Final Showdown

Postby jms1987 » Thu May 31, 2012 3:36 pm

Aqualibrium, can I PM you a few Q's I have about Alabama?

RMFT12
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Re: UT Austin vs. Alabama - The Final Showdown

Postby RMFT12 » Thu May 31, 2012 10:15 pm

OP- I am more than happy to talk with you about Bama if you message me. From UT, I believe your chances of getting hired by one of the larger Birmingham firms is greater than if you go to Bama (others may disagree, but this is my opinion). I completely agree about the rising tuition at Bama, try to get a full tuition scholarship if you decide to attend. I am also of the opinion that a 40% stipulation is not too bad, landing top 40% is very attainable. If I were you, I would probably go with UT for stronger employment chances.

rad lulz
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Re: UT Austin vs. Alabama - The Final Showdown

Postby rad lulz » Thu May 31, 2012 10:22 pm

DesperateNWaiting wrote:I am 20

You're a child and you need to take some time off before lawl school. You will still seem like a child come hiring. This will be bad. Also you have less life experience, even compared to the minimal shit normal 4 year k-jds have. Do not go to law school.

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BmoreOrLess
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Re: UT Austin vs. Alabama - The Final Showdown

Postby BmoreOrLess » Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:24 am

If you haven't negotiated with Bama yet, get on the phone/email Claude today. That top 40% stip is garbage, and you should be able to get a guaranteed full tuition scholarship easy. I went from a $23,500/yr scholly with a top 40% stip to a full ride with a 3.0 stip (their median is 3.2) by just using a UGA acceptance with no scholarship. You should have no problem with your situation.

As for whether you should go to law school or not, I have no advice since I'm a 0L, but at least hear current law school kids out.

PaoloMatteo
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Re: UT Austin vs. Alabama - The Final Showdown

Postby PaoloMatteo » Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:31 am

I agree with the above poster. Get Bama to ease up on the terms of our scholly and it's Bama all the way. Decent school, good employment prospects, home state, FREE LAW SCHOOL. That word free translates to a lot of other freedoms such as the freedom from debt, the freedom to take less pay up front for more attractive opportunities, and the freedom from additional stress.

I currently work in the training industry and one important thing that I have learned is that you should almost never turn down a free education.

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: UT Austin vs. Alabama - The Final Showdown

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:23 pm

PaoloMatteo wrote:I currently work in the training industry and one important thing that I have learned is that you should almost never turn down a free education.

1. What is the training industry and what does it have to do with choosing what law school to attend?
2. You should often turn down a free education when you have better options for slightly more money.
3. Alabama won't be free, there will still be cost of living and opportunity costs. It's a fallacy to look just at tuition.

I don't think OP said they definitely want to be in AL long term. If that's the case then UT is a much stronger choice at an extra $50k or whatever the case may be.

PaoloMatteo
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Re: UT Austin vs. Alabama - The Final Showdown

Postby PaoloMatteo » Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:24 pm

1. The training industry is just that, the industry which profits directly or indirectly through the training of individuals. Law schools, for example, are members of the training industry. I currently work on the business side of it, meaning I have some understanding of the monetization strategies of industry incumbents. Part of my job currently is conducting market research on the value of various educational ventures. One study I conducted for my employer entailed a situation similar to this. My findings suggest that if the OP feels that if the present value of gross profit after taxes derived from choosing UT over Bama is greater than the additional cost of attendance that he should choose UT. Unfortunately, these is not enough information for either of us to make calculation.

2. This is true, however it appears from the OP's language that this is not a matter of "slightly more money". In this instance, UT would represent a significantly greater financial commitment than Bama.

3. Thank you for point out cost of living, which is actually a bit higher in Austin than in Tuscaloosa. There is opportunity cost but how can we calculate this? With the significant obfuscation of employment stats by both of these schools all the OP REALLY knows with certainty is what his up front costs will be. Costs that will be significantly lessened at Bama.

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Ruxin1
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Re: UT Austin vs. Alabama - The Final Showdown

Postby Ruxin1 » Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:42 pm

PaoloMatteo wrote:1. The training industry is just that, the industry which profits directly or indirectly through the training of individuals. Law schools, for example, are members of the training industry. I currently work on the business side of it, meaning I have some understanding of the monetization strategies of industry incumbents. Part of my job currently is conducting market research on the value of various educational ventures. One study I conducted for my employer entailed a situation similar to this. My findings suggest that if the OP feels that if the present value of gross profit after taxes derived from choosing UT over Bama is greater than the additional cost of attendance that he should choose UT. Unfortunately, these is not enough information for either of us to make calculation.

2. This is true, however it appears from the OP's language that this is not a matter of "slightly more money". In this instance, UT would represent a significantly greater financial commitment than Bama.

3. Thank you for point out cost of living, which is actually a bit higher in Austin than in Tuscaloosa. There is opportunity cost but how can we calculate this? With the significant obfuscation of employment stats by both of these schools all the OP REALLY knows with certainty is what his up front costs will be. Costs that will be significantly lessened at Bama.


People have made this calculation on this site a thousand times, and it is smart to take Texas over Bama here. Use the search function instead of typing out a book on how "important" your job is.

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sunynp
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Re: UT Austin vs. Alabama - The Final Showdown

Postby sunynp » Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:49 pm

PaoloMatteo wrote:1. The training industry is just that, the industry which profits directly or indirectly through the training of individuals. Law schools, for example, are members of the training industry. I currently work on the business side of it, meaning I have some understanding of the monetization strategies of industry incumbents. Part of my job currently is conducting market research on the value of various educational ventures. One study I conducted for my employer entailed a situation similar to this. My findings suggest that if the OP feels that if the present value of gross profit after taxes derived from choosing UT over Bama is greater than the additional cost of attendance that he should choose UT. Unfortunately, these is not enough information for either of us to make calculation.

2. This is true, however it appears from the OP's language that this is not a matter of "slightly more money". In this instance, UT would represent a significantly greater financial commitment than Bama.

3. Thank you for point out cost of living, which is actually a bit higher in Austin than in Tuscaloosa. There is opportunity cost but how can we calculate this? With the significant obfuscation of employment stats by both of these schools all the OP REALLY knows with certainty is what his up front costs will be. Costs that will be significantly lessened at Bama.


1. What? People make this calculation all the time.

2. You don't know what the commitment from Alabama will actually be, if OP loses the scholarship (which is a real possibility) then you have to consider Alabama at full sticker for two years. Don't assume the scholarship will continue. This is a mistake many students make to their regret.

3. We can know some information about the employment outcomes from each school. It isn't perfect but it is a basis to work from.

Using your general analysis, people would always go to the lower ranked school for free. For the majority of people that would be a terrible mistake.

PaoloMatteo
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Re: UT Austin vs. Alabama - The Final Showdown

Postby PaoloMatteo » Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:04 pm

sunynp wrote:
1. What? People make this calculation all the time.

2. You don't know what the commitment from Alabama will actually be, if OP loses the scholarship (which is a real possibility) then you have to consider Alabama at full sticker for two years. Don't assume the scholarship will continue. This is a mistake many students make to their regret.

3. We can know some information about the employment outcomes from each school. It isn't perfect but it is a basis to work from.

Using your general analysis, people would always go to the lower ranked school for free. For the majority of people that would be a terrible mistake.


1. It's true that people make this calculation all the time. I didn't want to assume that the OP had or had not considered it.

2. If you would kindly refer to my original post, I clearly qualified my statement concerning the Bama choice being contingent upon a re-negotiation on the OP's part. I wasn't assuming anything.

3. The employment stats put forth by the universities are a rough basis, far less telling than the actual costs.

Than you misinterpreted my general analysis. It isn't to say that ALL people should ALWAYS take the road of the lesser school with more money. But in the OP's situation, IF they are able to re-negotiate those terms, I believe that they should take a full ride at Bama over what their current deal is from UT, nothing more than that.

I would be interested to read why you think it would be a terrible mistake for the majority of people. Also, to which people are you referring? All people? All law school applicants? Or, all TLS frequenters?

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Ruxin1
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Re: UT Austin vs. Alabama - The Final Showdown

Postby Ruxin1 » Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:11 pm

PaoloMatteo wrote:
sunynp wrote:
1. What? People make this calculation all the time.

2. You don't know what the commitment from Alabama will actually be, if OP loses the scholarship (which is a real possibility) then you have to consider Alabama at full sticker for two years. Don't assume the scholarship will continue. This is a mistake many students make to their regret.

3. We can know some information about the employment outcomes from each school. It isn't perfect but it is a basis to work from.

Using your general analysis, people would always go to the lower ranked school for free. For the majority of people that would be a terrible mistake.


1. It's true that people make this calculation all the time. I didn't want to assume that the OP had or had not considered it.

2. If you would kindly refer to my original post, I clearly qualified my statement concerning the Bama choice being contingent upon a re-negotiation on the OP's part. I wasn't assuming anything.

3. The employment stats put forth by the universities are a rough basis, far less telling than the actual costs.

Than you misinterpreted my general analysis. It isn't to say that ALL people should ALWAYS take the road of the lesser school with more money. But in the OP's situation, IF they are able to re-negotiate those terms, I believe that they should take a full ride at Bama over what their current deal is from UT, nothing more than that.

I would be interested to read why you think it would be a terrible mistake for the majority of people. Also, to which people are you referring? All people? All law school applicants? Or, all TLS frequenters?


LST employment statistics, not the schools'
You sound clueless, is your "training" job a pre-law/guidance counselor, if so lulz




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