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Re: Pacific McGeorge vs. Case Western Reserve
Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 5:04 am
by SplitLife
1. Sorry, I said that wrong, I did not mean probably...I'm strictly talking chances here
2. I'm not COUNTING on transferring, option B) Staying in either NV or OH.
3. "You probably will make a mediocre amount of money, especially with your numbers and the schools you are looking at (and by mediocre I mean $30-50k, all while paying off mountains of debt). Law school generally is a shitty profession and you'll be especially miserable if your main motivation is money. If you want to just make decent money and don't care about the work itself there are WAY better routes than law..."
You're making a lot of assumptions here. I know I will PROBABLY make mediocre money, I get it, did you read the OP? I'm trying to gauge my CHANCES (as slim as they may be) of not making mediocre money with the opportunities I have before me.
Mountains of debt all depends on what amount on money (debt) makes you tremble as you go to sleep at night. My parents will be paying for living, I just need to handle tuition. I don't mind carrying some debt with me seeing as how I am the oldest/only son of parents who have done decently well for themselves, so go ahead and relax.
Who said I don't care about the work? I know that I want to do this even if it means going to a lower ranked school and making a lower salary...
This thread will only help me figure out which school I will be attending this Fall, it will not dissuade be from attending law school.
If you can help, please do. If not, be more productive with your time!
Re: Pacific McGeorge vs. Case Western Reserve
Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 5:07 am
by SplitLife
tedalbany wrote:Nova wrote:Case. Better shot to transfer and better shot to make mid five figures.
You don't give good advice.
LOL neither do you...it is obvious you have not taken the time to figure out my mentality/ desire. Instead you have done exactly what my OP requested you not do...offer assumptions and typical TLS "don't go / retake" advice.
Re: Pacific McGeorge vs. Case Western Reserve
Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 5:10 am
by Nova
tedalbany wrote:
You don't give good advice.
tedalbany wrote:
1. How does a 25% chance at making $60k mean you'll probably be making 60-80k coming out of UNLV? (Hint: You aren't a special snowflake, and odds are you won't be making that much - even if you do manage to obtain a full time permanent legal job).
Only half the class reported. The number is much closer to 40-50% of those employed.
Re: Pacific McGeorge vs. Case Western Reserve
Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 5:15 am
by tedalbany
SplitLife wrote:1. Sorry, I said that wrong, I did not mean probably...I'm strictly talking chances here
2. I'm not COUNTING on transferring, option B) Staying in either NV or OH.
3. "You probably will make a mediocre amount of money, especially with your numbers and the schools you are looking at (and by mediocre I mean $30-50k, all while paying off mountains of debt). Law school generally is a shitty profession and you'll be especially miserable if your main motivation is money. If you want to just make decent money and don't care about the work itself there are WAY better routes than law..."
You're making a lot of assumptions here. I know I will PROBABLY make mediocre money, I get it, did you read the OP? I'm trying to gauge my CHANCES (as slim as they may be) of not making mediocre money with the opportunities I have before me.
Mountains of debt all depends on what amount on money (debt) makes you tremble as you go to sleep at night. My parents will be paying for living, I just need to handle tuition. I don't mind carrying some debt with me seeing as how I am the oldest/only son of parents who have done decently well for themselves, so go ahead and relax.
Who said I don't care about the work? I know that I want to do this even if it means going to a lower ranked school and making a lower salary...
This thread will only help me figure out which school I will be attending this Fall, it will not dissuade be from attending law school.
If you can help, please do. If not, be more productive with your time!
You couldn't have a more obvious 'special snowflake' mentality. Why do you care so much about what gives better chances of transferring or making money if the odds are neither of those are going to happen anyway? You're assuming that you'll beat the odds because you think you're a special snowflake. If you weren't thinking like that there's no way you could justify going to these schools, since you would accept the fact you're most likely going to end up un/underemployed with a considerable amount of debt. Why would you want that when you could just go do something else that will leave you with greater prospects for less debt?
Re: Pacific McGeorge vs. Case Western Reserve
Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 5:17 am
by tedalbany
Nova wrote:tedalbany wrote:
You don't give good advice.
tedalbany wrote:
1. How does a 25% chance at making $60k mean you'll probably be making 60-80k coming out of UNLV? (Hint: You aren't a special snowflake, and odds are you won't be making that much - even if you do manage to obtain a full time permanent legal job).
Only half the class reported. The number is much closer to 40-50% of those employed.
The half not to report is much more likely to be making little/below the reported median. They are the ones who aren't too eager to report (hence why better schools usually have higher reporting rates).
Re: Pacific McGeorge vs. Case Western Reserve
Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 8:46 am
by flem
what is a McGeorge
Re: Pacific McGeorge vs. Case Western Reserve
Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 10:03 am
by jarofsoup
tfleming09 wrote:what is a McGeorge
Its an oil tycoon. If you wanted to live in California why are these your only options?
Re: Pacific McGeorge vs. Case Western Reserve
Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 6:56 pm
by SplitLife
As of now I guess. I'm waitlisted at Chapman but that's about it.
Re: Pacific McGeorge vs. Case Western Reserve
Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 8:03 pm
by rad lulz
SplitLife wrote:As of now I guess. I'm waitlisted at Chapman but that's about it.
That would also be dumb
Re: Pacific McGeorge vs. Case Western Reserve
Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 8:06 pm
by top30man
rad lulz wrote:SplitLife wrote:As of now I guess. I'm waitlisted at Chapman but that's about it.
That would also be dumb
Re: Pacific McGeorge vs. Case Western Reserve
Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 8:07 pm
by tedalbany
We're just trying to give you helpful advice. You can either listen to us, actual law students and graduates who have some idea what they're talking about, or you can cherry pick the advice of a couple random 0Ls with no more information than yourself. The best advice is for you to consider other professions or retake the LSAT until you have an acceptable score. What is it about law that makes you feel you have to be a part of the profession? Are there any other professions you'd consider?
Also -
top30man wrote:rad lulz wrote:SplitLife wrote:As of now I guess. I'm waitlisted at Chapman but that's about it.
That would also be dumb
Re: Pacific McGeorge vs. Case Western Reserve
Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 8:17 pm
by SplitLife
"The best advice is for you to consider other professions or retake the LSAT until you have an acceptable score."
I understand this...I DON'T CARE...I'm willing to take my chances. I'm just trying to gauge as accurately as possible what those chances are...if law school doesn't get me what I want, I will have other options, solid options. But I'm going to take a shot at law school because I have absolutely nothing to lose. If you cant wrap your mind around that, I feel sorry for you.
Re: Pacific McGeorge vs. Case Western Reserve
Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 8:56 pm
by jarofsoup
SplitLife wrote:"The best advice is for you to consider other professions or retake the LSAT until you have an acceptable score."
I understand this...I DON'T CARE...I'm willing to take my chances. I'm just trying to gauge as accurately as possible what those chances are...if law school doesn't get me what I want, I will have other options, solid options. But I'm going to take a shot at law school because I have absolutely nothing to lose. If you cant wrap your mind around that, I feel sorry for you.
I had the same mentality going into law school. Give yourself a month after you start and let the bitterness of your first year set in.
Re: Pacific McGeorge vs. Case Western Reserve
Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 9:15 pm
by rad lulz
SplitLife wrote:"The best advice is for you to consider other professions or retake the LSAT until you have an acceptable score."
I understand this...I DON'T CARE...I'm willing to take my chances. I'm just trying to gauge as accurately as possible what those chances are...if law school doesn't get me what I want, I will have other options, solid options. But I'm going to take a shot at law school because I have absolutely nothing to lose. If you cant wrap your mind around that, I feel sorry for you.
looks like we got ourselves a special snowflake, bros
Re: Pacific McGeorge vs. Case Western Reserve
Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 9:39 pm
by ConfidenceMan2
SplitLife wrote:"The best advice is for you to consider other professions or retake the LSAT until you have an acceptable score."
I understand this...I DON'T CARE...I'm willing to take my chances. I'm just trying to gauge as accurately as possible what those chances are...if law school doesn't get me what I want, I will have other options, solid options. But I'm going to take a shot at law school because I have absolutely nothing to lose. If you cant wrap your mind around that, I feel sorry for you.
While a lot of people (i.e., the masses that are paying full freight for schools like McGeorge) share your mentality w/r/t being willing to take chances, most of them are not here soliciting advice from strangers who they know will likely explain to them the dangers of their choice. I imagine many of them are being encouraged by friends and family members who have a respectable and well-off attorney friend who went to the local TTT and assume that going to said school is a tremendous opportunity and a great investment.
You, however, are armed with more information than those people. You're clearly at least slightly familiar with the standard line around here. You knew that you would be told to retake before you made this thread. You are armed with knowledge that most people whose lives are ruined by TTTuition do not have until it's too late.
My point is that you should really reevaluate your decision-making process. You're here trying to crunch numbers and develop the most reasonable plan. You're sole goal is, apparently, to maximize your chance of success. This is a fantastic mentality and if you stick with it, and swallow your pride and resolve a bit and hesitate just a little more, it will pay off. There's nothing wrong with choosing a regional school as long as you go in with the proper expectations. But you're aiming at a bad regional school and a decent regional school to a region you have no ties to. This is a mistake. Transferring is not an absolutely terrible plan -particularly if you're already a student - but here's the reason everyone is saying retake:
- You get 1 shot at 1L grades. You get 3 (and if you really wait continually renewable) shots at the LSAT.
- If you perform TREMENDOUSLY at e.g. McGeorge, you have a *shot* at spending 2 years at UCLA/USC/etc.
- If you perform TREMENDOUSLY at the LSAT, you could be cracking the T14, possibly with money (depending on your LSDAS GPA) or great regional schools with serious (and stipulation-free) money.
You might hate the LSAT with a passion. That's fine. But if you're serious about becoming a lawyer you need to see it as a necessary evil and stop trying to avoid it. I'm sorry but since you're here and wanting to be reasoned with you should seriously think about how much more sense it makes to retake the LSAT than gamble on smashing 1L exams.
Re: Pacific McGeorge vs. Case Western Reserve
Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 9:59 pm
by top30man
rad lulz wrote:SplitLife wrote:"The best advice is for you to consider other professions or retake the LSAT until you have an acceptable score."
I understand this...I DON'T CARE...I'm willing to take my chances. I'm just trying to gauge as accurately as possible what those chances are...if law school doesn't get me what I want, I will have other options, solid options. But I'm going to take a shot at law school because I have absolutely nothing to lose. If you cant wrap your mind around that, I feel sorry for you.
looks like we got ourselves a special snowflake, bros
OP, would you go to Vegas and put 90k on black on a roulette table?
Re: Pacific McGeorge vs. Case Western Reserve
Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 11:20 pm
by rickgrimes69
rad lulz wrote:SplitLife wrote:"The best advice is for you to consider other professions or retake the LSAT until you have an acceptable score."
I understand this...I DON'T CARE...I'm willing to take my chances. I'm just trying to gauge as accurately as possible what those chances are...if law school doesn't get me what I want, I will have other options, solid options. But I'm going to take a shot at law school because I have absolutely nothing to lose. If you cant wrap your mind around that, I feel sorry for you.
looks like we got ourselves a special snowflake, bros
Re: Pacific McGeorge vs. Case Western Reserve
Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 11:34 pm
by bankruptedcasino
McGeorge grads have completely taken it on the chin in this economy. My ex's friend graduated from McGeorge in the top third of her class two years ago and is still waiting tables. She's now thinking of being a permanent employee at the SPCA and remaining in permanent default on her student loans.
Dude, you're from SoCal. You should know better. California's economy is just wrecked and nobody is hiring. I wouldn't chance going back to Cali with anything less than a T14 degree ... and with decent grades to boot.
I'm normally one of the TLS posters who think that each person's story is unique and that if they really want to slog it out at a TTT they do so with the least debt possible, but you're dead set on going to schools in two states with terrible economic prospects. And those schools are at the bottom of the barrel in those states.
Retake OR sit this cycle out and reapply to other schools in more economically favorable states where the bottom hasn't completely fallen out of the legal market and all the firms are packing up shop and going elsewhere.
Re: Pacific McGeorge vs. Case Western Reserve
Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 12:19 am
by Nova
bankruptedcasino wrote:And those schools are at the bottom of the barrel in those states.
Out of 9 law schools in Ohio, Case is ranked 2nd...
Re: Pacific McGeorge vs. Case Western Reserve
Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 7:15 pm
by SplitLife
Thank you ConfidenceMan2, I appreciate the words of wisdom.
Bankruptedcasino, Nova is right. Case is #2 in Ohio...which is why I'm considering it.
Re: Pacific McGeorge vs. Case Western Reserve
Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 8:13 pm
by flem
SplitLife wrote:Thank you ConfidenceMan2, I appreciate the words of wisdom.
Bankruptedcasino, Nova is right. Case is #2 in Ohio...which is why I'm considering it.
A second tier law school that plays second fiddle to a law school with one of the most loyal alumni basis in the country in a shitty, depressed, rust belt economy? WHAT COULD GO WRONG?
Re: Pacific McGeorge vs. Case Western Reserve
Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 8:23 pm
by tedalbany
SplitLife wrote:Thank you ConfidenceMan2, I appreciate the words of wisdom.
Bankruptedcasino, Nova is right. Case is #2 in Ohio...which is why I'm considering it.
#2 in
OHIO, an SPS state where you have no ties whatsoever, with
15 NALP law firms and 9 law schools.
Re: Pacific McGeorge vs. Case Western Reserve
Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 8:25 pm
by noleknight16
If you have to, Case.
I highly recommend a retake though. I didn't want to do it either, but I've vastly improved my options this cycle and I didn't even have that big of an increase in my score.
Re: Pacific McGeorge vs. Case Western Reserve
Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:06 pm
by robocall12
ConfidenceMan2 wrote:SplitLife wrote:"The best advice is for you to consider other professions or retake the LSAT until you have an acceptable score."
I understand this...I DON'T CARE...I'm willing to take my chances. I'm just trying to gauge as accurately as possible what those chances are...if law school doesn't get me what I want, I will have other options, solid options. But I'm going to take a shot at law school because I have absolutely nothing to lose. If you cant wrap your mind around that, I feel sorry for you.
While a lot of people (i.e., the masses that are paying full freight for schools like McGeorge) share your mentality w/r/t being willing to take chances, most of them are not here soliciting advice from strangers who they know will likely explain to them the dangers of their choice. I imagine many of them are being encouraged by friends and family members who have a respectable and well-off attorney friend who went to the local TTT and assume that going to said school is a tremendous opportunity and a great investment.
You, however, are armed with more information than those people. You're clearly at least slightly familiar with the standard line around here. You knew that you would be told to retake before you made this thread. You are armed with knowledge that most people whose lives are ruined by TTTuition do not have until it's too late.
My point is that you should really reevaluate your decision-making process. You're here trying to crunch numbers and develop the most reasonable plan. You're sole goal is, apparently, to maximize your chance of success. This is a fantastic mentality and if you stick with it, and swallow your pride and resolve a bit and hesitate just a little more, it will pay off. There's nothing wrong with choosing a regional school as long as you go in with the proper expectations. But you're aiming at a bad regional school and a decent regional school to a region you have no ties to. This is a mistake. Transferring is not an absolutely terrible plan -particularly if you're already a student - but here's the reason everyone is saying retake:
- You get 1 shot at 1L grades. You get 3 (and if you really wait continually renewable) shots at the LSAT.
- If you perform TREMENDOUSLY at e.g. McGeorge, you have a *shot* at spending 2 years at UCLA/USC/etc.
- If you perform TREMENDOUSLY at the LSAT, you could be cracking the T14, possibly with money (depending on your LSDAS GPA) or great regional schools with serious (and stipulation-free) money.
You might hate the LSAT with a passion. That's fine. But if you're serious about becoming a lawyer you need to see it as a necessary evil and stop trying to avoid it. I'm sorry but since you're here and wanting to be reasoned with you should seriously think about how much more sense it makes to retake the LSAT than gamble on smashing 1L exams.
This is some really well reasoned and well written advice. I was where you are now about a year ago. I retook and now I have some pretty nice admits with some very decent scholarships, even though my LSAT improvement was not that large. (5 pt improvement). I may end up going full price or near full price at the school that I feel is best matched to me, but that is my decision. I choose to go in eyes wide open, knowing everything I can about the school and the market it is in. FYI... McGeorge was the first school I turned down this year. Main reason was not the overall ranking - it was the ranking in the California market (which really means that getting a job out of there would be tough). Secondary reason for me was the overall cost of the school and the cost of living in Cali in general. I can't speak to Case as I never really looked at it. It does sound much better than McGeorge however.
To each his own. I get people trying to tell me to retake and try again next year. I've already done that, and will not do it this year. I intend to go to law school this year. But that is me. Everyone needs to make their own decision, after gathering as much information as possible so that you can make an informed decision. Best of luck.
Re: Pacific McGeorge vs. Case Western Reserve
Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:18 pm
by knave
Current Case student here. Going to Case given your circumstances would be a TERRIBLE idea. Besides a couple random emails about internship opportunities in LA that I assume were available to students from all schools, Case has absolutely no connections out there. If you already have connections, it might be different, but career services at Case basically worthless for students who want to practice in Ohio or elsewhere. Alumni relations are shaky to say the least, even with alumni in Cleveland.
Everyone here will tell you what a bad idea it is to commit to a school with intentions to transfer. But besides the low chances of succeeding, it's an awful lifestyle. I knew people in your exact situation, and to say the least, they might have been the unhappiest people in an overall miserable student body. I don't think more than one or two did well enough to transfer, and the rest are probably stuck in Ohio. Don't make yourself that bitter.