Vandy (sticker) vs. Cornell (sticker) vs. UVa (waitlisted)

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nbj08
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Vandy (sticker) vs. Cornell (sticker) vs. UVa (waitlisted)

Postby nbj08 » Thu May 24, 2012 3:50 pm

Just wanted to get everyone's opinion here.

I want to work in the South. Was set to go to Vandy at sticker before Cornell came in today.

Since they're both sticker, would Cornell outweigh Vandy, even for Atlanta?

Still waiting on UVa - if that comes through (doubtful), then obviously that is the clear choice.

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Doorkeeper
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Re: Vandy (sticker) vs. Cornell (sticker) vs. UVa (waitlisted)

Postby Doorkeeper » Thu May 24, 2012 4:22 pm

See if Vandy will give you some $$ on the Cornell acceptance. Cornell has much better overall biglaw placement, but I'm not sure how it fares specifically in the South. I wouldn't think too well...

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flem
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Re: Vandy (sticker) vs. Cornell (sticker) vs. UVa (waitlisted)

Postby flem » Thu May 24, 2012 4:23 pm

Doorkeeper wrote:See if Vandy will give you some $$ on the Cornell acceptance. Cornell has much better overall biglaw placement, but I'm not sure how it fares specifically in the South. I wouldn't think too well...


TCR

Vandy is great for ATL biglaw, but keep in mind that market in ATL is 135-145K instead of 160K, and you'll have to be top third at Vandy to have a good shot at landing it.

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Re: Vandy (sticker) vs. Cornell (sticker) vs. UVa (waitlisted)

Postby de5igual » Thu May 24, 2012 4:25 pm

nbj08 wrote:Just wanted to get everyone's opinion here.

I want to work in the South. Was set to go to Vandy at sticker before Cornell came in today.

Since they're both sticker, would Cornell outweigh Vandy, even for Atlanta?
Still waiting on UVa - if that comes through (doubtful), then obviously that is the clear choice.


Prob not, but what's more important for you--working in the south or working biglaw in general? You're going to need biglaw to pay off the debt in either scenario. Vandy is better for Atl biglaw, but with Cornell, it makes it a lot more likely to get biglaw overall, even if it's in NYC.

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FlanAl
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Re: Vandy (sticker) vs. Cornell (sticker) vs. UVa (waitlisted)

Postby FlanAl » Thu May 24, 2012 4:29 pm

uva waitlist

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KMaine
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Re: Vandy (sticker) vs. Cornell (sticker) vs. UVa (waitlisted)

Postby KMaine » Thu May 24, 2012 4:34 pm

Whatever everybody else said. UVA would be ideal, but they keep millions of people on their waitlist. Vandy is probably better for ATL, but there is probably less cushion in terms of fall back options. If you are in top 2/3 at Cornell, you probably have a solid chance at NYC biglaw, but if that doesn't appeal to you at all, I guess go to Vandy . . . and try to get some $.

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Re: Vandy (sticker) vs. Cornell (sticker) vs. UVa (waitlisted)

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu May 24, 2012 4:38 pm

Question: OP, since you have a 165/3.85, have you considered reapplying ED to Virginia next cycle ? Seems as if sticker at Cornell & at Vanderbilt are too expensive for one targeting Atlanta.

nbj08
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Re: Vandy (sticker) vs. Cornell (sticker) vs. UVa (waitlisted)

Postby nbj08 » Thu May 24, 2012 4:48 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Question: OP, since you have a 165/3.85, have you considered reapplying ED to Virginia next cycle ? Seems as if sticker at Cornell & at Vanderbilt are too expensive for one targeting Atlanta.



I applied ED this cycle, and was waitlisted. I've been in constant contact with UVa admissions, but I believe they are looking for higher LSATs. I even told them I was willing to defer! (I know, I know - that's pretty dumb).

Would it be advantageous to let UVa know of my Cornell acceptance?

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Re: Vandy (sticker) vs. Cornell (sticker) vs. UVa (waitlisted)

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu May 24, 2012 4:54 pm

Telling them that you were willing to defer was a smart move, in my opinion.

Cornell & Vanderbilt are both great law schools, but both are also quite expensive at sticker price. Ask Vanderbilt for money in light of your Cornell acceptance. A move to consider is asking both schools for scholarship assistance & if none is offered, then walk away & reapply next cycle as apps will be down even more. If you insist on going this year, then Cornell is the safer investment at sticker price.

P.S. I realize that it's much easier to offer advice than to turn down two dream law schools, but the debt figures can & should overwhelm you. Calculate total COA plus interest for both law schools, then determine the monthly payments--payments made in after-tax dollars. This should help you see that walking away from sticker price is a reasonable option to consider.

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Re: Vandy (sticker) vs. Cornell (sticker) vs. UVa (waitlisted)

Postby nbj08 » Thu May 24, 2012 5:02 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Telling them that you were willing to defer was a smart move, in my opinion.

Cornell & Vanderbilt are both great law schools, but both are also quite expensive at sticker price. Ask Vanderbilt for money in light of your Cornell acceptance. A move to consider is asking both schools for scholarship assistance & if none is offered, then walk away & reapply next cycle as apps will be down even more. If you insist on going this year, then Cornell is the safer investment at sticker price.

P.S. I realize that it's much easier to offer advice than to turn down two dream law schools, but the debt figures can & should overwhelm you. Calculate total COA plus interest for both law schools, then determine the monthly payments--payments made in after-tax dollars. This should help you see that walking away from sticker price is a reasonable option to consider.



Do you really think applications will be down enough next year to make a difference? Would I then be getting scholarships with the same stats?

UVa really is my dream school. And my previous questions stands: would it be advantageous to let them know?

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Re: Vandy (sticker) vs. Cornell (sticker) vs. UVa (waitlisted)

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu May 24, 2012 5:05 pm

It would be if you are willing to pay sticker price for Virginia.

More acceptances, plus scholarship money at Vanderbilt next cycle, in my opinion. However, you need to apply to a few financial safeties in your target region in addition to Top 18 law schools.

After reviewing lawschoolnumbers.com, it's clear that Cornell is unlikely to offer anything, but that Vanderbilt has awarded $45,000 ($15,000 per year) to students with a 165/3.86 and 166/3.85. Ask Vanderbilt for scholarship consideration.
Last edited by CanadianWolf on Thu May 24, 2012 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

nbj08
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Re: Vandy (sticker) vs. Cornell (sticker) vs. UVa (waitlisted)

Postby nbj08 » Thu May 24, 2012 5:07 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:It would be if you are willing to pay sticker price.

After reviewing lawschoolnumbers.com, it's clear that Cornell is unlikely to offer anything, but that Vanderbilt has awarded $45,000 ($15,000 per year) to students with a 165/3.86 and 166/3.85. Ask Vanderbilt for scholarship consideration.



Thank you for everything!

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Re: Vandy (sticker) vs. Cornell (sticker) vs. UVa (waitlisted)

Postby woeisme » Thu May 24, 2012 5:09 pm

This is actually a source of dispute on TLS, I think. There are posters who are adamant that Vanderbilt is better than non-UVA, non-Duke T14s for the south. There are also posters who insist the opposite is true. Based on my personal observations, I fall into the latter camp.

Enjoy Cornell!

(For what it's worth UVA is going to be a bit better than either Cornell or Vanderbilt for southern markets, ... i'd stay on that waitlist for a while)

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Re: Vandy (sticker) vs. Cornell (sticker) vs. UVa (waitlisted)

Postby rad lulz » Thu May 24, 2012 5:14 pm

woeisme wrote:There are posters who are adamant that Vanderbilt is better than non-UVA, non-Duke T14s for the south.

What no one says that. People will say that if you are dead set on the South you should go to Vandy over Cornell or GULC, and that's fair. Cornell ain't a big deal down here like it is in NYC.

But OP, if you are gonna take out sticker debt, Cornell is probably the better idea from a pure loan repayment standpoint. Better biglaw chances in general since NYC has recovered a lot while the South, well, hasn't.

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Re: Vandy (sticker) vs. Cornell (sticker) vs. UVa (waitlisted)

Postby woeisme » Thu May 24, 2012 5:17 pm

rad lulz wrote:
woeisme wrote:There are posters who are adamant that Vanderbilt is better than non-UVA, non-Duke T14s for the south.

What no one says that. People will say that if you are dead set on the South you should go to Vandy over Cornell or GULC, and that's fair. Cornell ain't a big deal down here like it is in NYC.

Are you telling me you think places like Michigan and Northwestern have more clout than Cornell and GULC for the south?? Now this is getting silly...

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Re: Vandy (sticker) vs. Cornell (sticker) vs. UVa (waitlisted)

Postby rad lulz » Thu May 24, 2012 5:18 pm

woeisme wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
woeisme wrote:There are posters who are adamant that Vanderbilt is better than non-UVA, non-Duke T14s for the south.

What no one says that. People will say that if you are dead set on the South you should go to Vandy over Cornell or GULC, and that's fair. Cornell ain't a big deal down here like it is in NYC.

Are you telling me you think places like Michigan and Northwestern have more clout than Cornell and GULC for the south?? Now this is getting silly...

Didn't say that lil breh

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Re: Vandy (sticker) vs. Cornell (sticker) vs. UVa (waitlisted)

Postby BarbellDreams » Thu May 24, 2012 6:33 pm

Tough situation cause I think Vandy with a small scholly is ideal and if you can get it out of them due to Cornell's acceptance I would do that. Otherwise the question becomes whether you are absolutely South or bust or would you be willing to consider living someplace else with a good job for 3-5 years at least. Cornell gives you the best shot at overall job placement, but I pimp out Vandy on TLS non stop (although I have no relation to the school at all, I just think its arguably the most underrated law school in the country) so I'd say go there if you really want the south and nothing changes.

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Re: Vandy (sticker) vs. Cornell (sticker) vs. UVa (waitlisted)

Postby nbj08 » Thu May 24, 2012 6:36 pm

I just want to make sure that everyone agrees it would be beneficial to tell UVa about Cornell, while reaffirming my desire to attend (even if offered deferred admission).

CanadianWolf
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Re: Vandy (sticker) vs. Cornell (sticker) vs. UVa (waitlisted)

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu May 24, 2012 6:39 pm

My opinion is that it is beneficial to tell Virginia that you are willing to pay sticker price this cycle if accepted (since UVA has run out of scholarship money according to second-hand reports).

1) Vanderbilt with $15,000 per year scholarship
2) Virginia at full price
3) Consider reapplying next cycle unless willing to work in NYC. If so, then Cornell at sticker.

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twenty
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Re: Vandy (sticker) vs. Cornell (sticker) vs. UVa (waitlisted)

Postby twenty » Thu May 24, 2012 6:47 pm

Are you signed up for a June retake? You may want to try for a higher LSAT and ED next year. I mean, if you'd defer regardless...?

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Re: Vandy (sticker) vs. Cornell (sticker) vs. UVa (waitlisted)

Postby justicefishy » Thu May 24, 2012 7:43 pm

A June or October retake and a score in the low 170's will open up a world of possibilities including UVA with $$. I'd at least heavily consider that option.

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2014
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Re: Vandy (sticker) vs. Cornell (sticker) vs. UVa (waitlisted)

Postby 2014 » Fri May 25, 2012 2:25 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:My opinion is that it is beneficial to tell Virginia that you are willing to pay sticker price this cycle if accepted (since UVA has run out of scholarship money according to second-hand reports).

1) Vanderbilt with $15,000 per year scholarship
2) Virginia at full price
3) Consider reapplying next cycle unless willing to work in NYC. If so, then Cornell at sticker.


People here are pretty consistent in believing that U.Va. is worth more than 45k more than Vandy, even (or perhaps especially) for the south. What makes you think different?

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Re: Vandy (sticker) vs. Cornell (sticker) vs. UVa (waitlisted)

Postby CanadianWolf » Fri May 25, 2012 2:30 pm

Close call because the actual cost difference would be $20,000 per year ($60,000 plus interest total) due to Virginia's higher non-resident tuition rate.

Wasn't it recently revealed that Virginia's 9 month employment numbers were inflated by the law school's hiring of 17 unemployed grads for temporary positions ?

If true, then sure money from Vanderbilt is a reasonable alternative for one seeking work in Southern markets.

If not true, then Virginia is the safer investment.

Another factor: OP has been admitted to Cornell & to Vanderbilt, but is on the waitlist for Virginia. In light of OP's recent acceptance to Cornell, a Vanderbilt scholarship is more likely to be offered than is a Virginia acceptance off their waitlist.

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Re: Vandy (sticker) vs. Cornell (sticker) vs. UVa (waitlisted)

Postby Cartman » Fri May 25, 2012 3:17 pm

Take UVA if you get it, Cornell is still a good option if not.

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Dinho
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Re: Vandy (sticker) vs. Cornell (sticker) vs. UVa (waitlisted)

Postby Dinho » Fri May 25, 2012 4:27 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Close call because the actual cost difference would be $20,000 per year ($60,000 plus interest total) due to Virginia's higher non-resident tuition rate.

Wasn't it recently revealed that Virginia's 9 month employment numbers were inflated by the law school's hiring of 17 unemployed grads for temporary positions ?

If true, then sure money from Vanderbilt is a reasonable alternative for one seeking work in Southern markets.

If not true, then Virginia is the safer investment.

Another factor: OP has been admitted to Cornell & to Vanderbilt, but is on the waitlist for Virginia. In light of OP's recent acceptance to Cornell, a Vanderbilt scholarship is more likely to be offered than is a Virginia acceptance off their waitlist.


I forget who made the post or which thread it was in, but someone in the past couple weeks made the important point that the weighing of options should not be done on as if on a continuum, but rather in bands. In this case, I think that as long as the debt levels from UVA and Vanderbilt are both in the range that would require biglaw to handle, there really is no reason why Vanderbilt should be considered a better, or safer option.

Yes UVA had hired their own grads into temporary positions, but, if I recall correctly, almost all of those grads ended up with long-term employment according to the later accounting of employment statistics. I'm not certain of this and I'm on a phone so I'm not going to search for confirmation now.




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