UF vs Cumberland (Samford)

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mattslau
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UF vs Cumberland (Samford)

Postby mattslau » Thu May 24, 2012 4:34 am

I think I want to practice in Alabama and went to undergrad at University of Alabama. I have an offer at Cumberland and UF for equivalent price because of in state tuition for 2L-3L. I havent heard from Bama yet. What are your thoughts on leaving the state (losing potential connections) versus going to a less than prestigious law school (less job prospects). Please no reapply responses.

bruss
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Re: UF vs Cumberland (Samford)

Postby bruss » Thu May 24, 2012 5:04 am

mattslau wrote:I think I want to practice in Alabama and went to undergrad at University of Alabama. I have an offer at Cumberland and UF for equivalent price because of in state tuition for 2L-3L. I havent heard from Bama yet. What are your thoughts on leaving the state (losing potential connections) versus going to a less than prestigious law school (less job prospects). Please no reapply responses.


UF. You already have the ug degree and I'm assuming family in bama. That's good enough. Also the best scenario is shit law in bama with a cumberland degree. Go to Uf the best law school in Fl. Or cumberland the shit school

Real Madrid
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Re: UF vs Cumberland (Samford)

Postby Real Madrid » Thu May 24, 2012 8:08 am

bruss wrote:
mattslau wrote:I think I want to practice in Alabama and went to undergrad at University of Alabama. I have an offer at Cumberland and UF for equivalent price because of in state tuition for 2L-3L. I havent heard from Bama yet. What are your thoughts on leaving the state (losing potential connections) versus going to a less than prestigious law school (less job prospects). Please no reapply responses.


UF. You already have the ug degree and I'm assuming family in bama. That's good enough. Also the best scenario is shit law in bama with a cumberland degree. Go to Uf the best law school in Fl. Or cumberland the shit school


Not saying OP should choose Cumberland, but that's not true. Top of class at Samford can get Birmingham big law. So to say that the "best case scenario" is AL shit law is wrong. And it's not like the top firms in Birmingham are going to be fighting over a median UF student.

OP, I think you need to decide for sure where you want to live, not where you think you want to live. I know that's difficult, but it really could make all the difference in your decision. If you want Birmingham, go to Cumberland. Anywhere outside of Alabama, take UF.

There is no question that UF is a superior school, but Samford is decent and almost assuredly stronger for Birmingham. I don't think it's a bad choice if you're for sure happy with living in Birmingham and have a solid offer.

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kwais
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Re: UF vs Cumberland (Samford)

Postby kwais » Thu May 24, 2012 8:25 am

hmm, fake school or real school? this is a toughie?

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: UF vs Cumberland (Samford)

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Thu May 24, 2012 8:32 am

What Real Madrid said. In Alabama, Alabama and Cumberland are somewhat like peers, not unlike Mississippi and Mississippi College are in Mississippi. This is primarily because while the public schools have better reputations overall, the private schools have established their brands in the (relatively) major legal job markets (Birmingham and Jackson).

Basically, Cumberland is really not a bad choice, and, given the OP's goals, it actually does make more sense to choose Cumberland over UF (especially if the OP wants to practice in Birmingham). If the OP wanted FL, then UF would be the obvious choice.

Aqualibrium
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Re: UF vs Cumberland (Samford)

Postby Aqualibrium » Thu May 24, 2012 8:39 am

X
Last edited by Aqualibrium on Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

Real Madrid
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Re: UF vs Cumberland (Samford)

Postby Real Madrid » Thu May 24, 2012 9:11 am

Aqualibrium wrote:As an Alabama Law alum and someone who interviewed, worked, and observed the legal market here in Alabama over the last three years, my advice would be a) get into Bama Law OR b) go to UF OR c) retake.

If you are at the very very top of your class at Cumberland, you will have a shot at working at one of the bigger firms in the state. However, you do have what I'd admit is a slightly larger margin of error at either Bama or UF. I've worked with and seen many students from UF during my summers in Mobile, Montgomery, and Birmingham; I don't personally think UF is a bar to entry for getting into those markets so much so that Cumberland is the better option of the two. Additionally, UF probably works in your favor because you get to work the "Bama was nice but I'm coming back home to Florida" angle during interviews (i assume from the instate reference you meant you were a florida resident, because cumberland is a private school that does not offer in state tuition) while simultaneously working the "UF ended up being the cheaper option for me and I couldn't turn that down, but I loved my time here in Alabama and want to settle here" angle.


Also, in response to Aberzombie, and I admit this my be tinged with Bama bias: UA and Cumberland are not peer schools. While it is true that the school does relatively well for its standing in the state due to alumni ties, it is also true that at most firms if you see one Cumberland kid in the summers class, you'll see three or four Alabama kids (usually with worse grades than the cumberland kid). That is exactly what my experience and the experience of my friends has been.


Pretty sure the OP is not from Florida, as he mentioned in-state tuition for 2L and 3L year specifically (implying he won't have it for 1L year).

Also, OP indicated that he is leaning towards wanting to practice in Alabama, not Florida. That means that not only can he not work the "returning home angle" (assuming he is indeed not from FL), but he will also have to explain why he went to a school in Florida when he presumably goes job hunting in Alabama.

So not only does OP not have ties to Florida (still assuming based on the info he gave), but he would be choosing an arguably worse school for the Birmingham market by going to Florida. And the Florida legal market is already going to be a tough nut to crack considering its huge population, relatively small and few legal markets, and the very large number of students it sends with ties to the T14 that want to come back.

I do agree that you should do all you can to get into Alabama, though.

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flem
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Re: UF vs Cumberland (Samford)

Postby flem » Thu May 24, 2012 9:28 am

LOL, 53% of Samford grads obtain full time legal employment. That's abysmal.

I wouldn't go to UF if you didn't want to work in Florida, as that's the most likely outcome.

Are you waitlisted at Bama or you just haven't heard back? If rejected and you still want to work in Alabama, retake and reapply. Only school in Alabama worth going to.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: UF vs Cumberland (Samford)

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Thu May 24, 2012 1:36 pm

I'll concede that Alabama and Cumberland aren't "peers" in many interpretations of the term, but not all of them. They are both well regarded in the major legal market, regardless of their individual statures out-of-state; that's something that many outsiders (outside the region) may not really understand. However, that's not even close to the point.

The point is twofold: (1) Cumberland is not exactly horrible at a reasonable price for the OP's goals (unlike all other Alabama law schools aside from Alabama) and (2) Cumberland makes more sense than UF for the OP's goals.

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flem
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Re: UF vs Cumberland (Samford)

Postby flem » Thu May 24, 2012 1:38 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:They are both well regarded in the major legal market, regardless of their individual statures out-of-state


If only this lay preftige translated into actual job placement.

If you want to work in Alabama, you should be Alabama or bust.

rad lulz
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Re: UF vs Cumberland (Samford)

Postby rad lulz » Thu May 24, 2012 1:39 pm

Don't go to either. Retake and get into Bama.

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pinkcamellia
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Re: UF vs Cumberland (Samford)

Postby pinkcamellia » Thu May 24, 2012 2:22 pm

rad lulz wrote:Don't go to either. Retake and get into Bama.


Bama UG here. Went to UF Law. You will not get Alabama jobs from UF, unless they're some teeny tiny Mobile firm that takes Pensacola kids. Get into Bama - with Bama ties, basically anything above 164 will get you in if you apply early. I got in last minute with something around 162/4.0 but it was with no $$$.

Just take the time to retake. It sounds like the worst thing in the world right now, but you will hate yourself when all you can get are Florida jobs and you miss your family in Alabama.

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hookem7
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Re: UF vs Cumberland (Samford)

Postby hookem7 » Thu May 24, 2012 8:10 pm

I don't think you're out of the running for Bama if you haven't heard, especially because your in state and UF is comparable admissions wise. Be wary of Samford though, I have relatives and family friends that think it's as close to Bama but they all graduated a long time ago

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noleknight16
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Re: UF vs Cumberland (Samford)

Postby noleknight16 » Thu May 24, 2012 8:26 pm

Are people seriously telling this person to go to Cumberland? Either UF or retake for Bama.

bruss
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Re: UF vs Cumberland (Samford)

Postby bruss » Fri May 25, 2012 12:53 am


Real Madrid
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Re: UF vs Cumberland (Samford)

Postby Real Madrid » Fri May 25, 2012 5:36 am

noleknight16 wrote:Are people seriously telling this person to go to Cumberland? Either UF or retake for Bama.


Listen dude, you clearly don't have a clue what you're talking about. UF is not going to get someone a job in Birmingham over Cumberland. OP said he thinks he wants to live in Alabama, and the biggest legal market by far in Alabama is in Birmingham. What do you not understand?

That's like telling someone to go to Wake Forest over Cumberland for a job in Birmingham because WF is ranked higher. Yeah, UF (or WF) is a better school, but only if you don't care where you get a job.

bruss
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Re: UF vs Cumberland (Samford)

Postby bruss » Fri May 25, 2012 8:17 am

Real Madrid wrote:
noleknight16 wrote:Are people seriously telling this person to go to Cumberland? Either UF or retake for Bama.


Listen dude, you clearly don't have a clue what you're talking about. UF is not going to get someone a job in Birmingham over Cumberland. OP said he thinks he wants to live in Alabama, and the biggest legal market by far in Alabama is in Birmingham. What do you not understand?

That's like telling someone to go to Wake Forest over Cumberland for a job in Birmingham because WF is ranked higher. Yeah, UF (or WF) is a better school, but only if you don't care where you get a job.


The whole point is that if op goes to cumberland he might not even get a job and will be loaded with debt. If he goes to UF he at least has a fighting chance. Also if op got accepted into UF he needs to reapply to bama on early next year or he needs to retake and apply to bama early next year.

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noleknight16
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Re: UF vs Cumberland (Samford)

Postby noleknight16 » Fri May 25, 2012 12:03 pm

Real Madrid wrote:
noleknight16 wrote:Are people seriously telling this person to go to Cumberland? Either UF or retake for Bama.


Listen dude, you clearly don't have a clue what you're talking about. UF is not going to get someone a job in Birmingham over Cumberland. OP said he thinks he wants to live in Alabama, and the biggest legal market by far in Alabama is in Birmingham. What do you not understand?

That's like telling someone to go to Wake Forest over Cumberland for a job in Birmingham because WF is ranked higher. Yeah, UF (or WF) is a better school, but only if you don't care where you get a job.


You clearly have no clue. You're telling this person to take debt to go to Mercer if he doesn't get into UGA or Emory. You're telling this person to go to take debt at FL Coastal if he doesn't get into FSU/UF/Miami. Reality is, Samford is a s*** school. There's absolutely no way he should take out a big chunk of debt for Samford.

If he REALLY wants to live in Bama, go to Bama. Period. That's his only option that makes sense. Retake and sit a year out. If he cannot do that for whatever reason, he will just have to settle for his best option, which is UF. Cumberland isn't even a legitimate option to consider. I don't care where it's located. It's trash.

Don't get all pissy at me because you are giving him potentially fatal advice that would haunt him the rest of his life.

Real Madrid
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Re: UF vs Cumberland (Samford)

Postby Real Madrid » Fri May 25, 2012 2:47 pm

noleknight16 wrote:
Real Madrid wrote:
noleknight16 wrote:Are people seriously telling this person to go to Cumberland? Either UF or retake for Bama.


Listen dude, you clearly don't have a clue what you're talking about. UF is not going to get someone a job in Birmingham over Cumberland. OP said he thinks he wants to live in Alabama, and the biggest legal market by far in Alabama is in Birmingham. What do you not understand?

That's like telling someone to go to Wake Forest over Cumberland for a job in Birmingham because WF is ranked higher. Yeah, UF (or WF) is a better school, but only if you don't care where you get a job.


You clearly have no clue. You're telling this person to take debt to go to Mercer if he doesn't get into UGA or Emory. You're telling this person to go to take debt at FL Coastal if he doesn't get into FSU/UF/Miami. Reality is, Samford is a s*** school. There's absolutely no way he should take out a big chunk of debt for Samford.

If he REALLY wants to live in Bama, go to Bama. Period. That's his only option that makes sense. Retake and sit a year out. If he cannot do that for whatever reason, he will just have to settle for his best option, which is UF. Cumberland isn't even a legitimate option to consider. I don't care where it's located. It's trash.

Don't get all pissy at me because you are giving him potentially fatal advice that would haunt him the rest of his life.


Dude, you're telling OP to go to UF when he wants to live in Alabama. Stupid. UF does not place in Birmingham or Alabama at all, AS CONFIRMED BY A UF ALUM IN THIS THREAD. I am not unequivocally telling OP to go to Samford; I am telling OP to go to Samford if s/he is Birmingham/AL or bust, as the OP seems to indicate.

Also, don't confuse getting pissy with getting annoyed because you're apparently incapable of grasping the facts of the OP's situation.

And yeah, if someone was GA or bust, I would tell them to take Mercer over Ole Miss, just like if someone was Florida or bust I would tell them to take FL Coastal over LSU. I am not defending these schools, but telling someone to go to a mediocre state school hundreds of miles away in a different state from the one they want to live in is beyond stupid.

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noleknight16
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Re: UF vs Cumberland (Samford)

Postby noleknight16 » Fri May 25, 2012 2:51 pm

Real Madrid wrote:
noleknight16 wrote:
Real Madrid wrote:
noleknight16 wrote:Are people seriously telling this person to go to Cumberland? Either UF or retake for Bama.


Listen dude, you clearly don't have a clue what you're talking about. UF is not going to get someone a job in Birmingham over Cumberland. OP said he thinks he wants to live in Alabama, and the biggest legal market by far in Alabama is in Birmingham. What do you not understand?

That's like telling someone to go to Wake Forest over Cumberland for a job in Birmingham because WF is ranked higher. Yeah, UF (or WF) is a better school, but only if you don't care where you get a job.


You clearly have no clue. You're telling this person to take debt to go to Mercer if he doesn't get into UGA or Emory. You're telling this person to go to take debt at FL Coastal if he doesn't get into FSU/UF/Miami. Reality is, Samford is a s*** school. There's absolutely no way he should take out a big chunk of debt for Samford.

If he REALLY wants to live in Bama, go to Bama. Period. That's his only option that makes sense. Retake and sit a year out. If he cannot do that for whatever reason, he will just have to settle for his best option, which is UF. Cumberland isn't even a legitimate option to consider. I don't care where it's located. It's trash.

Don't get all pissy at me because you are giving him potentially fatal advice that would haunt him the rest of his life.


Dude, you're telling OP to go to UF when he wants to live in Alabama. Stupid. UF does not place in Birmingham or Alabama at all, AS CONFIRMED BY A UF ALUM IN THIS THREAD. I am not unequivocally telling OP to go to Samford; I am telling OP to go to Samford if s/he is Birmingham/AL or bust, as the OP seems to indicate.

Also, don't confuse getting pissy with getting annoyed because you're apparently incapable of grasping the facts of the OP's situation.


I've made it perfectly clear that UF is the correct choice if he cannot sit out a year and retake for Bama. Samford shouldn't even be option and recommending it is just plain comical.

bruss
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Re: UF vs Cumberland (Samford)

Postby bruss » Fri May 25, 2012 2:55 pm

Real Madrid wrote:
noleknight16 wrote:
Real Madrid wrote:
noleknight16 wrote:Are people seriously telling this person to go to Cumberland? Either UF or retake for Bama.


Listen dude, you clearly don't have a clue what you're talking about. UF is not going to get someone a job in Birmingham over Cumberland. OP said he thinks he wants to live in Alabama, and the biggest legal market by far in Alabama is in Birmingham. What do you not understand?

That's like telling someone to go to Wake Forest over Cumberland for a job in Birmingham because WF is ranked higher. Yeah, UF (or WF) is a better school, but only if you don't care where you get a job.


You clearly have no clue. You're telling this person to take debt to go to Mercer if he doesn't get into UGA or Emory. You're telling this person to go to take debt at FL Coastal if he doesn't get into FSU/UF/Miami. Reality is, Samford is a s*** school. There's absolutely no way he should take out a big chunk of debt for Samford.

If he REALLY wants to live in Bama, go to Bama. Period. That's his only option that makes sense. Retake and sit a year out. If he cannot do that for whatever reason, he will just have to settle for his best option, which is UF. Cumberland isn't even a legitimate option to consider. I don't care where it's located. It's trash.

Don't get all pissy at me because you are giving him potentially fatal advice that would haunt him the rest of his life.


Dude, you're telling OP to go to UF when he wants to live in Alabama. Stupid. UF does not place in Birmingham or Alabama at all, AS CONFIRMED BY A UF ALUM IN THIS THREAD. I am not unequivocally telling OP to go to Samford; I am telling OP to go to Samford if s/he is Birmingham/AL or bust, as the OP seems to indicate.

Also, don't confuse getting pissy with getting annoyed because you're apparently incapable of grasping the facts of the OP's situation.



Guys let's just call it like it is. OP is dumb as fuck if he/she would go to cumberland. OP needs to stop being lazy and scared and needs to retake and apply early next year to Bama or forget about working in Bama. OP is clearly uninformed and needs his/her prompt totally reconfigured

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Robbin Blue
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Re: UF vs Cumberland (Samford)

Postby Robbin Blue » Fri May 25, 2012 2:57 pm

noleknight16 wrote:You clearly have no clue. You're telling this person to take debt to go to Mercer if he doesn't get into UGA or Emory. You're telling this person to go to take debt at FL Coastal if he doesn't get into FSU/UF/Miami. Reality is, Samford is a s*** school. There's absolutely no way he should take out a big chunk of debt for Samford.

If he REALLY wants to live in Bama, go to Bama. Period. That's his only option that makes sense. Retake and sit a year out. If he cannot do that for whatever reason, he will just have to settle for his best option, which is UF. Cumberland isn't even a legitimate option to consider. I don't care where it's located. It's trash.

Don't get all pissy at me because you are giving him potentially fatal advice that would haunt him the rest of his life.


Not to be rude or anything, but I really don't think you know the Alabama market as well as you might think you do. Samford is not a good school on a national level, no one could argue otherwise. In Alabama, however, it is second only to UA. Cumberland alums do quite well for themselves, as long as they stay in state. If OP is receiving money from Samford (because, let's face it, it is seriously overpriced), he should definitely be seriously considering taking it over going to Florida, where he has no connections and doesn't want to work.

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noleknight16
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Re: UF vs Cumberland (Samford)

Postby noleknight16 » Fri May 25, 2012 2:59 pm

bruss wrote:Guys let's just call it like it is. OP is dumb as fuck if he/she would go to cumberland. OP needs to stop being lazy and scared and needs to retake and apply early next year to Bama or forget about working in Bama. OP is clearly uninformed and needs his/her prompt totally reconfigured


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Yep. Last year, I wanted FL/GA and I only got into Miami (with no scholly). Retook, and now I'm in at UF and FSU and waitlisted at Emory this cycle. Either retake to get what you want or you gotta adjust to what school gives you the best chance of success in law (clearly UF in this case).

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flem
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Re: UF vs Cumberland (Samford)

Postby flem » Fri May 25, 2012 3:02 pm

Robbin Blue wrote:Not to be rude or anything, but I really don't think you know the Alabama market as well as you might think you do. Samford is not a good school on a national level, no one could argue otherwise. In Alabama, however, it is second only to UA. Cumberland alums do quite well for themselves, as long as they stay in state.


lol except half of Samford grads don't get full time legal jerbs so there's that

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noleknight16
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Re: UF vs Cumberland (Samford)

Postby noleknight16 » Fri May 25, 2012 3:05 pm

flem wrote:
Robbin Blue wrote:Not to be rude or anything, but I really don't think you know the Alabama market as well as you might think you do. Samford is not a good school on a national level, no one could argue otherwise. In Alabama, however, it is second only to UA. Cumberland alums do quite well for themselves, as long as they stay in state.


lol except half of Samford grads don't get full time legal jerbs so there's that


I bet there's sick temp doc review gigs for Samford grads. :roll:




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