American vs. University of Richmond

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lovebibi2004
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American vs. University of Richmond

Postby lovebibi2004 » Wed May 23, 2012 6:57 pm

Hello everyone,
I am having extreme difficulty in determining whether to attend American Law or University of Richmond Law.
As of right now I did not secure any money at American but secured about 9K at Richmond. In terms of location I am fine with both, however I cannot decide between the two.
My main concerns are:
1. Tuition: extremely high at American while I can deal with the amount at Richmond
2. Job Prospects after law school: there are too many opinions about both Richmond and American which prevent me from having a final decision

please help me figure this out.
Thanks!

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echamberlin8
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Re: American vs. University of Richmond

Postby echamberlin8 » Wed May 23, 2012 7:26 pm

If I were you, I'd pick American. It has a closer proximity to the biggest legal market in the area, and in my own personal experience working at a V25 firm, we have a solid amount of associates from American, whereas I don't know of any from Richmond. 9K isn't really a big enough scholarship to sway you away from the better job prospects at American.

That's my opinion at least.

timbs4339
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Re: American vs. University of Richmond

Postby timbs4339 » Wed May 23, 2012 7:32 pm

lovebibi2004 wrote:Hello everyone,
I am having extreme difficulty in determining whether to attend American Law or University of Richmond Law.
As of right now I did not secure any money at American but secured about 9K at Richmond. In terms of location I am fine with both, however I cannot decide between the two.
My main concerns are:
1. Tuition: extremely high at American while I can deal with the amount at Richmond
2. Job Prospects after law school: there are too many opinions about both Richmond and American which prevent me from having a final decision

please help me figure this out.
Thanks!


American might be ok with a hefty scholarship. It is almost certainly a terrible investment at sticker price.

Richmond is even worse job prospects. Assuming you meet the qualifications to renew your scholarship (what is the GPA stipulation) you are still looking at over 120K in debt for a 40-50K job if you are lucky.

What is your LSAT/GPA score?

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flem
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Re: American vs. University of Richmond

Postby flem » Thu May 24, 2012 8:43 am

echamberlin8 wrote:If I were you, I'd pick American. It has a closer proximity to the biggest legal market in the area, and in my own personal experience working at a V25 firm, we have a solid amount of associates from American, whereas I don't know of any from Richmond. 9K isn't really a big enough scholarship to sway you away from the better job prospects at American.

That's my opinion at least.


This is worthless.

American at sticker will leave you a 1/3rd chance of being unemployed with 250K worth of debt.

CanadianWolf
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Re: American vs. University of Richmond

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu May 24, 2012 8:48 am

American is too expensive. What is the total COA for Richmond ? Are you from Virginia ?

lovebibi2004
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Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 6:53 pm

Re: American vs. University of Richmond

Postby lovebibi2004 » Thu May 24, 2012 10:19 am

I am from Virginia. the cost of attendance for American for me would be 60K while it would be about 40K per year for Richmond. While I am concerned about the COA I am more worried about job prospects after graduation for both schools. Will Richmond be better since its graduates do well in the Richmond region? or is American not worth it since it competes with multiple other schools in the DC market (does it still matter that it has amazing Clinical and International law programs?)

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flem
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Re: American vs. University of Richmond

Postby flem » Thu May 24, 2012 10:26 am

lovebibi2004 wrote:I am from Virginia. the cost of attendance for American for me would be 60K while it would be about 40K per year for Richmond. While I am concerned about the COA I am more worried about job prospects after graduation for both schools. Will Richmond be better since its graduates do well in the Richmond region? or is American not worth it since it competes with multiple other schools in the DC market (does it still matter that it has amazing Clinical and International law programs?)


1) Too expensive for the likely job outcomes at either school. Job prospects are pretty terrible.
2) Self selection, and probably people with ties/connections to Richmond
3) Spot on, hyper competitive and too far down the pecking order.
4) Specialty rankings are worthless.

A retake is in order if you want to go to law school. What were your numbers?

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echamberlin8
Posts: 288
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Re: American vs. University of Richmond

Postby echamberlin8 » Thu May 24, 2012 2:43 pm

flem wrote:
echamberlin8 wrote:If I were you, I'd pick American. It has a closer proximity to the biggest legal market in the area, and in my own personal experience working at a V25 firm, we have a solid amount of associates from American, whereas I don't know of any from Richmond. 9K isn't really a big enough scholarship to sway you away from the better job prospects at American.

That's my opinion at least.


This is worthless.

American at sticker will leave you a 1/3rd chance of being unemployed with 250K worth of debt.


I would agree that the OP shouldn't go to either of these schools at these prices, but given the choice between the two, I'd still pick American, because Richmond has an even worse chance of getting a BigLaw job, which I assume would be pretty mandatory to pay off the debt at both jobs (Richmond is only offering a 9K scholarship).

But yes, I agree that you should retake the LSAT.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: American vs. University of Richmond

Postby BarbellDreams » Thu May 24, 2012 6:35 pm

flem wrote:
echamberlin8 wrote:If I were you, I'd pick American. It has a closer proximity to the biggest legal market in the area, and in my own personal experience working at a V25 firm, we have a solid amount of associates from American, whereas I don't know of any from Richmond. 9K isn't really a big enough scholarship to sway you away from the better job prospects at American.

That's my opinion at least.


This is worthless.

American at sticker will leave you a 1/3rd chance of being unemployed with 250K worth of debt.


TITCR. (I wanted to do the slash through but you beat me to it. :)

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AntipodeanPhil
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Re: American vs. University of Richmond

Postby AntipodeanPhil » Fri May 25, 2012 1:37 pm

Some information about American from Law School Transparency:

Only 54.3% of the class of 2010 had full-time legal employment 9 months after graduation. So you have perhaps a 1/2 chance of getting legal employment.

BUT, you're going to need legal employment that allows you to pay back around $180,000+ in loans - which works out at over $2000 a month in payments, on a standard 10 year plan. Only 12.1% of graduates got employment at large firms - firms with salaries over $100,000. Another 3.9% or so get federal clerkships, and many of those will go on to work at large firms. So around 15% of American grads will make a salary large enough to reasonably pay back $180,000 in debt.

Almost every other American grad will be making between $30k and 80k, IF he/she has full-time employment. The government will take around a third of that in taxes. $2k a month in loan payments = 24k a year.

If you'd prefer anecdotal information: I know a few American grads. The one I know best graduated around median in 2009, and is now working in retail, after taking an unpaid internship and then spending many months desperately searching for any kind of paying, JD-required employment. She has many friends in the same situation as her.

The employment situation is worse at the University of Richmond, although at least your loan payments would be lower.

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tony2167
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Re: American vs. University of Richmond

Postby tony2167 » Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:46 pm

Employment prospects are worse at Richmond than American according to what metric?

58% FT legal employment at Richmond http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=richmond
35% FT legal employment at American http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=american

Neither has an edge on BigLaw, American employed almost 6% of their own grads, Richmond employed 0.

BoGuaGua
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Re: American vs. University of Richmond

Postby BoGuaGua » Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:42 am

hey OP, there was a thread on here about why u should not go to richmond, i think it was called "do not go to richmond" or something, if the OP in that thread was honest, then I'd go with American, cause richmond sounded like a shithole, and American is a better known name to begin with anyways

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2014
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Re: American vs. University of Richmond

Postby 2014 » Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:19 pm

tony2167 wrote:Employment prospects are worse at Richmond than American according to what metric?

58% FT legal employment at Richmond http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=richmond
35% FT legal employment at American http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=american

Neither has an edge on BigLaw, American employed almost 6% of their own grads, Richmond employed 0.

Solid necro considering they probably made their choice 5 months ago




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