Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

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rad lulz
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Re: Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

Postby rad lulz » Wed May 23, 2012 7:11 pm

lol @ your Skadden 1 yr paralegal experience. PREFTIGE, brothers, I am blinded by the PREFTGE.

shoeshine
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Re: Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

Postby shoeshine » Wed May 23, 2012 7:11 pm

I really hope you come back to this thread in a year and realize why this was a dumb question.

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dailygrind
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Re: Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

Postby dailygrind » Wed May 23, 2012 7:16 pm

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=170603

For the record, I am banning 0Ls who start threads in the law student subforums.

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rayiner
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Re: Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

Postby rayiner » Wed May 23, 2012 7:48 pm

DBishops wrote:
Flash wrote:
DBishops wrote:Yes it is for real and I am concerned about it.

How can you be concerned about it? Has a genie given you these two options?


Why so much douche?

I have the choice to go to HYS, CCN, or MVPB. I am trying to think it through clearly aside from prestige. Douche.


An employer's "discount" of class rank at a lower T14 versus an HYS is based on two criteria: 1) adjusting for the stronger student body at HYS versus a lower T14; and 2) accounting for the value of the HYS brand.

(1) is a very small factor. If you work out the math,[1] you might expect someone with a 173 LSAT to perform slightly above median in a class with a 170 LSAT median.

(2) is the dominant factor. Firms love to see that HYS on the firm bio.

Given that (2) buys you a lot and (1) buys you very little, you want to take (2) to maximize employability, assuming everything else is equal.

That said, there are limits to (2). A V10 might recruit in the top 1/4 of a lower T14 and the top 1/2 of H. The bottom of the class at HYS has a lot of security compared to someone at the bottom of a lower T14, in the sense that some firms won't even look at their grades given their HYS pedigree, but selective employers will much prefer someone who performed above median at a lower T14. The best example of this is clerkships. Federal judges are not turning down top 20% at lower T14's for median at H.

[1] A high estimate for the correlation between law school grades and the LSAT is 0.7. That means a 2 standard deviation on the LSAT (the difference between a 173 and a 153) is expected to yield a 1 standard deviation difference in law school grades. In other words, if you had a law school class composed of everyone who took the LSAT in it (from 120-180, with a 153 median), a person with a 173 would only statistically be expected to finish in roughly the top 15%, even though he finished top 1% on the LSAT itself relative to those same people. If you put that 173 into a class where the median is 170 (top 2%), rather than 153 (top 50%), statistically you'd expect him to finish just above median.
Last edited by rayiner on Wed May 23, 2012 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed May 23, 2012 7:52 pm

According to two former NYC based recruiters, Columbia is another brand name that NYC biglaw firms like on their profile.

Napt
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Re: Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

Postby Napt » Wed May 23, 2012 7:58 pm

shoeshine wrote:No one has any real reason to be concerned about this because you have about the same chance of being bottom or top at any of these schools.

However: Top of MVPB > Botttom of HYS

no

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KMaine
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Re: Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

Postby KMaine » Wed May 23, 2012 8:21 pm

OP - I think what people are jumping down your throat about is that we really think you are asking the wrong question. Should anybody ever attend a T10 over a T3? Yeah, maybe. But it should be because you have a big scholarship or something, not because you think you have a better chance at doing well against the curve. Might you be slightly higher in the class at Virginia than you would be at Harvard? Maybe, but it would not be bottom v. top, it may be top 20% instead of top third. The students just are not that different. My advice, money being equal (or anywhere close), go to the better school and don't look back.

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FattyMcFatFat
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Re: Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

Postby FattyMcFatFat » Wed May 23, 2012 8:30 pm

Napt wrote:
shoeshine wrote:No one has any real reason to be concerned about this because you have about the same chance of being bottom or top at any of these schools.

However: Top of MVPB > Botttom of HYS

no



Before seeing this post I was convinced that the worst kind of people are those who are simultaneously arrogant and uninformed about a given thing. I now know that there is a worse type of person: one who tops off his/her arrogance and stupidity with a dollop of unsolicited condescension. Thank you Napt. Because of you, I learned something today. :wink:

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rickgrimes69
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Re: Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

Postby rickgrimes69 » Wed May 23, 2012 9:09 pm


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FlanAl
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Re: Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

Postby FlanAl » Wed May 23, 2012 9:17 pm

DBishops wrote:
shoeshine wrote:Also, I really hope you go to HYS because I would never want someone like you at my school. You sound like a douche.


Yup. I asked a question, and you deflected it by demeaning me, sorry for being a douche back to you. If you want to seriously answer my question, I would still be interested. I didn't create this thread to get bitched at by someone who assumes the rigor of each school and one's ability to succeed is exactly the same at these schools. I don't agree with your assumption, and if you don't provide proof of it, move on.


kids who transfer into HYS from MVPB usually do really well at HYS. If what you thought was true they'd automatically be median or something after they transferred.

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vamedic03
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Re: Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

Postby vamedic03 » Wed May 23, 2012 11:33 pm

DBishops wrote:Curious, and sorry if this is in the wrong forum. But would it be more difficult to find a job, whether it be Big Law or PI below median at HYS then if you were near the top of your class at MVPB? Sorry if this has also been discussed already.


Students at the top of the class at MVPB clerk for feeders/the Court. Students below median at HYS are concerned about finding big law.

/thread.

Napt
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Re: Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

Postby Napt » Wed May 23, 2012 11:51 pm

FattyMcFatFat wrote:
Napt wrote:
shoeshine wrote:No one has any real reason to be concerned about this because you have about the same chance of being bottom or top at any of these schools.

However: Top of MVPB > Botttom of HYS

no



Before seeing this post I was convinced that the worst kind of people are those who are simultaneously arrogant and uninformed about a given thing. I now know that there is a worse type of person: one who tops off his/her arrogance and stupidity with a dollop of unsolicited condescension. Thank you Napt. Because of you, I learned something today. :wink:

Yea bro shoeshine's argument was much more convincing. lemme give it a crack.

HOWEVA: Bottom of HYS > Top of MVPB

bruss
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Re: Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

Postby bruss » Wed May 23, 2012 11:54 pm

rad lulz wrote:Just be top of HYS breh

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FattyMcFatFat
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Re: Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

Postby FattyMcFatFat » Thu May 24, 2012 12:07 am

Napt wrote:
FattyMcFatFat wrote:
Napt wrote:
shoeshine wrote:No one has any real reason to be concerned about this because you have about the same chance of being bottom or top at any of these schools.

However: Top of MVPB > Botttom of HYS

no



Before seeing this post I was convinced that the worst kind of people are those who are simultaneously arrogant and uninformed about a given thing. I now know that there is a worse type of person: one who tops off his/her arrogance and stupidity with a dollop of unsolicited condescension. Thank you Napt. Because of you, I learned something today. :wink:

Yea bro shoeshine's argument was much more convincing. lemme give it a crack.

HOWEVA: Bottom of HYS > Top of MVPB


I've decided that you are too stupid to live. However, I'm a charitable guy. I will give you 3 choices: (1) /self now, (2) step away from the computer, return after 1L, and realize how stupid you are, or (3) continue making an ass of yourself as I continue to bait you into doing so.

Personally, I'm in favor of option (1) or (3), but (2) is probably in your own best interest.

Napt
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Re: Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

Postby Napt » Thu May 24, 2012 12:20 am

FattyMcFatFat wrote:
Napt wrote:
FattyMcFatFat wrote:
Napt wrote:no



Before seeing this post I was convinced that the worst kind of people are those who are simultaneously arrogant and uninformed about a given thing. I now know that there is a worse type of person: one who tops off his/her arrogance and stupidity with a dollop of unsolicited condescension. Thank you Napt. Because of you, I learned something today. :wink:

Yea bro shoeshine's argument was much more convincing. lemme give it a crack.

HOWEVA: Bottom of HYS > Top of MVPB


I've decided that you are too stupid to live. However, I'm a charitable guy. I will give you 3 choices: (1) /self now, (2) step away from the computer, return after 1L, and realize how stupid you are, or (3) continue making an ass of yourself as I continue to bait you into doing so.

Personally, I'm in favor of option (1) or (3), but (2) is probably in your own best interest.

r8 how mad u are on a scale of 120-180

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Dignan
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Re: Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

Postby Dignan » Thu May 24, 2012 12:21 am

DBishops wrote:Dude, just because you are in law school doesn't mean you know a thing about what happens after. How much legal experience you have? I worked for Skadden as a paralegal for 1 and a half years, and became pretty familiar with hiring practices at different schools. That is a big firm, so I extrapolate from that. However, I made this thread, hoping there would be more information about mid law, PI, and government. BTW, at big firms, like Skadden, below median at H nearly always trumps above median at MVPB.

I don't doubt that, when Skadden makes hiring decisions, slightly below median at H usually trumps slightly above median at MVBP.
But, based on scattered anecdotes (i.e., the OCI outcomes of some people I know), top quarter at MBVP trumps median and below at H. And "top" of MBVP kills the bottom half of the classes at HYS in pretty much every sector of the legal job market. It's not a close question.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

Postby BarbellDreams » Thu May 24, 2012 12:26 am

How in the world has this thread not been locked yet? Between random responses that have nothing to do with the topic and a pissing contest between a 0L and a law student about who "knows more" I am quite shocked this is still going.

I'll take top of MVPB over bottom of HYS for employment purposes...and I'm a person who thinks of HYS as the holy grail.

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FattyMcFatFat
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Re: Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

Postby FattyMcFatFat » Thu May 24, 2012 12:51 am

I've decided that you are too stupid to live. However, I'm a charitable guy. I will give you 3 choices: (1) /self now, (2) step away from the computer, return after 1L, and realize how stupid you are, or (3) continue making an ass of yourself as I continue to bait you into doing so.

Personally, I'm in favor of option (1) or (3), but (2) is probably in your own best interest.

r8 how mad u are on a scale of 120-180


Before we communicate further, I will need you to record yourself completing the task at the following link:
http://www.fisher-price.com/us/fun/games/abc/
I just need to get a baseline for the level of intelligence that I'm dealing with here. We can proceed (i.e., move on to numbers) when your challenge is complete. Your challenge will not be complete until I have received the aforementioned recording. Godspeed.
Last edited by FattyMcFatFat on Thu May 24, 2012 1:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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FattyMcFatFat
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Re: Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

Postby FattyMcFatFat » Thu May 24, 2012 1:09 am

BarbellDreams wrote:How in the world has this thread not been locked yet? Between random responses that have nothing to do with the topic and a pissing contest between a 0L and a law student about who "knows more" I am quite shocked this is still going.

I'll take top of MVPB over bottom of HYS for employment purposes...and I'm a person who thinks of HYS as the holy grail.


Also, I am sorry that you are
quite shocked
Nevertheless, my dick is way bigger than his dick. This is important.

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booboo
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Re: Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

Postby booboo » Thu May 24, 2012 1:43 am

FattyMcFatFat wrote:
I've decided that you are too stupid to live. However, I'm a charitable guy. I will give you 3 choices: (1) /self now, (2) step away from the computer, return after 1L, and realize how stupid you are, or (3) continue making an ass of yourself as I continue to bait you into doing so.

Personally, I'm in favor of option (1) or (3), but (2) is probably in your own best interest.

r8 how mad u are on a scale of 120-180


Before we communicate further, I will need you to record yourself completing the task at the following link:
http://www.fisher-price.com/us/fun/games/abc/
I just need to get a baseline for the level of intelligence that I'm dealing with here. We can proceed (i.e., move on to numbers) when your challenge is complete. Your challenge will not be complete until I have received the aforementioned recording. Godspeed.


So... I am genuinely upset there was no statistical output on how my keypresses matched with the corresponding stimuli. Thanks!

Real Madrid
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Re: Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

Postby Real Madrid » Thu May 24, 2012 7:38 am

Napt wrote:
FattyMcFatFat wrote:
Napt wrote:
shoeshine wrote:No one has any real reason to be concerned about this because you have about the same chance of being bottom or top at any of these schools.

However: Top of MVPB > Botttom of HYS

no



Before seeing this post I was convinced that the worst kind of people are those who are simultaneously arrogant and uninformed about a given thing. I now know that there is a worse type of person: one who tops off his/her arrogance and stupidity with a dollop of unsolicited condescension. Thank you Napt. Because of you, I learned something today. :wink:

Yea bro shoeshine's argument was much more convincing. lemme give it a crack.

HOWEVA: Bottom of HYS > Top of MVPB


You are so dumb. You are really dumb. For real.

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Lawl Shcool
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Re: Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

Postby Lawl Shcool » Thu May 24, 2012 8:14 am

Real Madrid wrote:You are so dumb. You are really dumb. For real.


Hide yo' kids, hide yo' wife....

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kwais
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Re: Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

Postby kwais » Thu May 24, 2012 9:03 am

hey guys, I have a question and I already know the answer I want to hear. Also, I have formed my own assumptions based on nothing and am not interested in your assumptions based on experience. Think you can help me out?

Real Madrid
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Re: Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

Postby Real Madrid » Thu May 24, 2012 9:14 am

kwais wrote:hey guys, I have a question and I already know the answer I want to hear. Also, I have formed my own assumptions based on nothing and am not interested in your assumptions based on experience. Think you can help me out?


Only if you promise not to get mad and call me a douche when I give you the answer you don't want to hear!

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Law Sauce
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Re: Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

Postby Law Sauce » Thu May 24, 2012 9:34 am

DBishops wrote:Right now I am nervous about attending HYS because I do not assume that I will do better than everyone. Not that I assume I will at MVPB, but I'm pretty sure I'll do much better relatively speaking. I think this is rational; however, I know many would jump at the chance to go to HYS regardless of these reservations I have.


If you are worried about doing poorly at YSH then you should be also worried about doing poorly MVP and if this is the case then you should give yourself the best odds possible by going to the best school that you got into.

This is true because, while overall quality of students may be higher at YSH in terms of life accomplishments/GPA/maybe LSAT etc. It is decidedly untrue that the students at these schools are decidedly better or worse at thinking about law and more importantly, at taking a law school exam. You will see, that at any school there are really intelligent, accomplished people who just do not transition into law well or maybe were never cut out for it in the beginning. If you have fears (which everyone does but you gotta believe in yourself), then you should weigh debt v. better employment prospects, instead of worse school/better grades v. better school/worse grades because the latter is mostly false.




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