Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

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DBishops
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Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

Postby DBishops » Wed May 23, 2012 6:40 pm

Curious, and sorry if this is in the wrong forum. But would it be more difficult to find a job, whether it be Big Law or PI below median at HYS then if you were near the top of your class at MVPB? Sorry if this has also been discussed already.

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Flash
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Re: Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

Postby Flash » Wed May 23, 2012 6:41 pm

Is this for real?

CanadianWolf
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Re: Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed May 23, 2012 6:42 pm

Not sure that there is a bottom of the class at Yale and Stanford. My best guess is that it's better to be at the top of the class (top 25% ?) at MVPB than the bottom 25% at Harvard.

DBishops
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Re: Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

Postby DBishops » Wed May 23, 2012 6:43 pm

Yes it is for real and I am concerned about it.

rad lulz
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Re: Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

Postby rad lulz » Wed May 23, 2012 6:43 pm

Just be top of HYS breh

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Flash
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Re: Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

Postby Flash » Wed May 23, 2012 6:44 pm

DBishops wrote:Yes it is for real and I am concerned about it.

How can you be concerned about it? Has a genie given you these two options?

shoeshine
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Re: Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

Postby shoeshine » Wed May 23, 2012 6:46 pm

No one has any real reason to be concerned about this because you have about the same chance of being bottom or top at any of these schools.

However: Top of MVPB > Botttom of HYS

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top30man
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Re: Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

Postby top30man » Wed May 23, 2012 6:46 pm

Flash wrote:
DBishops wrote:Yes it is for real and I am concerned about it.

How can you be concerned about it? Has a genie given you these two options?

Yeah it's a bizarre hypothetical. If a student is top of his class at MVPB they would likely not be doomed at HYS. I don't get it.

DBishops
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Re: Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

Postby DBishops » Wed May 23, 2012 6:47 pm

Flash wrote:
DBishops wrote:Yes it is for real and I am concerned about it.

How can you be concerned about it? Has a genie given you these two options?


Why so much douche?

I have the choice to go to HYS, CCN, or MVPB. I am trying to think it through clearly aside from prestige. Douche.

DBishops
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Re: Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

Postby DBishops » Wed May 23, 2012 6:48 pm

shoeshine wrote:No one has any real reason to be concerned about this because you have about the same chance of being bottom or top at any of these schools.

However: Top of MVPB > Botttom of HYS


I disagree you have the same chance. I would assume Yale, Stanford, and Harvard are more rigorous, perhaps that is incorrect, but if they are, it stands to reason I may not do as well if I went to a lower ranked school.

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Re: Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

Postby shoeshine » Wed May 23, 2012 6:49 pm

DBishops wrote:
Flash wrote:
DBishops wrote:Yes it is for real and I am concerned about it.

How can you be concerned about it? Has a genie given you these two options?


Why so much douche?

I have the choice to go to HYS, CCN, or MVPB. I am trying to think it through clearly aside from prestige. Douche.

Lol....people are being mean to you because the proper comparison in this decision is Bottom of HYS vs. Bottom of MVPB

shoeshine
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Re: Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

Postby shoeshine » Wed May 23, 2012 6:49 pm

DBishops wrote:
shoeshine wrote:No one has any real reason to be concerned about this because you have about the same chance of being bottom or top at any of these schools.

However: Top of MVPB > Botttom of HYS


I disagree you have the same chance. I would assume Yale, Stanford, and Harvard are more rigorous, perhaps that is incorrect, but if they are, it stands to reason I may not do as well if I went to a lower ranked school.


LOL NO. Just no.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed May 23, 2012 6:50 pm

OP: I've read that you're in at Columbia & Berkeley, but waitlisted at Stanford. If accepted to Stanford, that might be your best option (although I'm guessing since so I don't have enough info.)
Last edited by CanadianWolf on Wed May 23, 2012 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Flash
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Re: Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

Postby Flash » Wed May 23, 2012 6:50 pm

DBishops wrote:
shoeshine wrote:No one has any real reason to be concerned about this because you have about the same chance of being bottom or top at any of these schools.

However: Top of MVPB > Botttom of HYS


I disagree you have the same chance. I would assume Yale, Stanford, and Harvard are more rigorous, perhaps that is incorrect, but if they are, it stands to reason I may not do as well if I went to a lower ranked school.

Right the schools without real grades are surely much more intense and rigorous than the ones with actual grades. I bet those 3.9 173 kids are infinitely smarter than those 3.8 171ers as well.

DBishops
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Re: Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

Postby DBishops » Wed May 23, 2012 6:51 pm

shoeshine wrote:
DBishops wrote:
Flash wrote:
DBishops wrote:Yes it is for real and I am concerned about it.

How can you be concerned about it? Has a genie given you these two options?


Why so much douche?

I have the choice to go to HYS, CCN, or MVPB. I am trying to think it through clearly aside from prestige. Douche.

Lol....people are being mean to you because the proper comparison in this decision is Bottom of HYS vs. Bottom of MVPB


Its kind of sad that you assume you know the rigor of their curriculum, and so much so that you are willing to say Yale is equally rigorous as say UVA, or competetive at that. You are clearly a prestige whore though, so I'd appreciate an unbiased opinion.

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echamberlin8
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Re: Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

Postby echamberlin8 » Wed May 23, 2012 6:52 pm

DBishops wrote:
Flash wrote:
DBishops wrote:Yes it is for real and I am concerned about it.

How can you be concerned about it? Has a genie given you these two options?


Why so much douche?

I have the choice to go to HYS, CCN, or MVPB. I am trying to think it through clearly aside from prestige. Douche.


If there's one thing I've learned in my brief stay thus far on TLS, it's that people will always mock you on here no matter what. So don't worry about it.

DBishops
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Re: Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

Postby DBishops » Wed May 23, 2012 6:52 pm

Flash wrote:
DBishops wrote:
shoeshine wrote:No one has any real reason to be concerned about this because you have about the same chance of being bottom or top at any of these schools.

However: Top of MVPB > Botttom of HYS


I disagree you have the same chance. I would assume Yale, Stanford, and Harvard are more rigorous, perhaps that is incorrect, but if they are, it stands to reason I may not do as well if I went to a lower ranked school.

Right the schools without real grades are surely much more intense and rigorous than the ones with actual grades. I bet those 3.9 173 kids are infinitely smarter than those 3.8 171ers as well.


If you knew anything about Yale, Stanford, and even Berkeley, you'd know there ARE grades, just not letter grades. There are Honors, etc., and you do have a class rank. Do some research. There is a median.

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Flash
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Re: Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

Postby Flash » Wed May 23, 2012 6:53 pm

Boy there's even a median!!!!! Thanks 0L, I'll do some super duper research tonight!

shoeshine
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Re: Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

Postby shoeshine » Wed May 23, 2012 6:55 pm

DBishops wrote:Its kind of sad that you assume you know the rigor of their curriculum, and so much so that you are willing to say Yale is equally rigorous as say UVA, or competetive at that. You are clearly a prestige whore though, so I'd appreciate an unbiased opinion.

If you knew anything about me you would know that I go to a school in MVPB. I turned down higher ranked schools because I got significant money. I don't regret it at all. But grades are not based off the "rigor" of the curriculum. You can have an easy material for a class but if it is full of gunners it won't matter. The curve sets everything. And in the T14 the students are extremely close to one another in ability so the curves are decided by an arbitrary amount of luck.
Last edited by shoeshine on Wed May 23, 2012 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

shoeshine
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Re: Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

Postby shoeshine » Wed May 23, 2012 6:56 pm

Also, I really hope you go to HYS because I would never want someone like you at my school. You sound like a douche.

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FlightoftheEarls
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Re: Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

Postby FlightoftheEarls » Wed May 23, 2012 7:01 pm

Serious answer:

It is almost certainly better to be top of MVPB than bottom of HYS for almost any type* of employment.

The reason people are getting up in arms and mocking you is that there is no reason to believe that a student who gets grades in the top of MVPB would be anywhere close to the bottom of HYS, and there's no reason to believe that a student who gets grades at the bottom of HYS would be anywhere close to the top of MVPB. Now, it's certainly possible that this is the case, but it's very unlikely and has rarely proven to be true for students who have attended both tiers of school. This isn't to say that a student who scores a 171 vs. a 173 on the LSAT might not finish a tiny bit (say 10-15%) lower at one of HYS on average, but the LSAT-to-class rank correlation is rather weak. The difference in student quality between the schools is hardly so significant as to justify the assumption you seem to be making.

Edited to add:
*Public interest might be the exception, as grades are not quite as important, except for some prestigious fellowships (Skadden) and institutions (ACLU, Earthjustice, etc.) where they can pick from students with top-notch grades and experience. School, work experience, and a demonstrated interest are more important for the remainder of public interest jobs than grades alone.
Last edited by FlightoftheEarls on Wed May 23, 2012 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

DBishops
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Re: Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

Postby DBishops » Wed May 23, 2012 7:03 pm

shoeshine wrote:Also, I really hope you go to HYS because I would never want someone like you at my school. You sound like a douche.


Yup. I asked a question, and you deflected it by demeaning me, sorry for being a douche back to you. If you want to seriously answer my question, I would still be interested. I didn't create this thread to get bitched at by someone who assumes the rigor of each school and one's ability to succeed is exactly the same at these schools. I don't agree with your assumption, and if you don't provide proof of it, move on.

shoeshine
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Re: Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

Postby shoeshine » Wed May 23, 2012 7:05 pm

DBishops wrote:
shoeshine wrote:Also, I really hope you go to HYS because I would never want someone like you at my school. You sound like a douche.


Yup. I asked a question, and you deflected it by demeaning me, sorry for being a douche back to you. If you want to seriously answer my question, I would still be interested. I didn't create this thread to get bitched at by someone who assumes the rigor of each school and one's ability to succeed is exactly the same at these schools. I don't agree with your assumption, and if you don't provide proof of it, move on.

My proof is listed above. I am actually in law school. You are an idiot 0L.

THIS IS WHY 0Ls AREN'T ALLOWED TO POST IN THE EMPLOYMENT FORUM. YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

DBishops
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Re: Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

Postby DBishops » Wed May 23, 2012 7:05 pm

FlightoftheEarls wrote:Serious answer:

It is almost certainly better to be top of MVPB than bottom of HYS for almost any type* of employment.

The reason people are getting up in arms and mocking you is that there is no reason to believe that a student who gets grades in the top of MVPB would be anywhere close to the bottom of HYS, and there's no reason to believe that a student who gets grades at the bottom of HYS would be anywhere close to the top of MVPB. Now, it's certainly possible that this is the case, but it's very unlikely and has rarely proven to be true for students who have attended both tiers of school. This isn't to say that a student who scores a 171 vs. a 173 on the LSAT might not finish a tiny bit (say 10-15%) lower at one of HYS on average, but the LSAT-to-class rank correlation is rather weak. The difference in student quality between the schools is hardly so significant as to justify the assumption you seem to be making.

Edited to add:
*Public interest might be the exception, as grades are not quite as important, except for some prestigious fellowships (Skadden) and institutions (ACLU, Earthjustice, etc.) where they can pick from students with top-notch grades and experience. School, work experience, and a demonstrated interest are more important for the remainder of public interest jobs than grades alone.


Thank you for the response. Right now I am nervous about attending HYS because I do not assume that I will do better than everyone. Not that I assume I will at MVPB, but I'm pretty sure I'll do much better relatively speaking. I think this is rational; however, I know many would jump at the chance to go to HYS regardless of these reservations I have.

DBishops
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Re: Top of MVPB or Bottom of HYS

Postby DBishops » Wed May 23, 2012 7:09 pm

shoeshine wrote:
DBishops wrote:
shoeshine wrote:Also, I really hope you go to HYS because I would never want someone like you at my school. You sound like a douche.


Yup. I asked a question, and you deflected it by demeaning me, sorry for being a douche back to you. If you want to seriously answer my question, I would still be interested. I didn't create this thread to get bitched at by someone who assumes the rigor of each school and one's ability to succeed is exactly the same at these schools. I don't agree with your assumption, and if you don't provide proof of it, move on.

My proof is listed above. I am actually in law school. You are an idiot 0L.

THIS IS WHY 0Ls AREN'T ALLOWED TO POST IN THE EMPLOYMENT FORUM. YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.


Dude, just because you are in law school doesn't mean you know a thing about what happens after. How much legal experience you have? I worked for Skadden as a paralegal for 1 and a half years, and became pretty familiar with hiring practices at different schools. That is a big firm, so I extrapolate from that. However, I made this thread, hoping there would be more information about mid law, PI, and government. BTW, at big firms, like Skadden, below median at H nearly always trumps above median at MVPB.




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