Fordham - Living at home

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answer23
Posts: 125
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:38 am

Re: Fordham - Living at home

Postby answer23 » Tue May 29, 2012 10:37 am

OnceUponAMemo wrote:
dingbat wrote:
answer23 wrote:To add to my earlier post. Fordham's nlj250 place for 2011 was 19%. You have an 70-81% chance of never making enough money to pay back those loans. Are you sure this is what you want to do? You got into Fordham, chances are you have other options with less debt. Take the other options retake or don't go.

NLJ250 is not the only chance of paying back your loans; not only that, class of 2010 might be the absolute low point. I don't see it going back to pre-crash 30-35% anytime soon, but about 25% placement in NLJ250 is probably a reasonable estimate. Add to that non-NLJ jobs that have reasonable income potential and it's not quite as doom and gloom as 70-81% chance of destitution (although admittedly at sticker it is a risky proposition)


Dingbat's response here is spot on. We will be able to see the first official Class of 2013 summer placement stats in a few weeks, but the NLJ 20% number that keeps getting thrown around is very outdated at this point. Although we can't be perfectly accurate, based on a conglomeration of anecdotes, there is widespread speculation that the Class of 2013 will be right around the 30% number, potentially up to 32%.
Regarding your original question OP, if you can live at home without a horrific commute, I would definitely recommend it. Many of your colleagues will and it saves enough money to be worth it and help defray overall law school costs.

Also, just an fyi, literally every single thing that answer23 has posted in this thread is dead wrong other than building delays in NYC are common. So, please, read everything he has posted, then think the exact opposite and you will have an accurate depiction of attending Fordham. Although he is correct that building delays in the city are the norm, Fordham has actually already delayed the opening of the new building from a much earlier expected date and seems intent on having the current date (Fall 2013) be realistic. Based on the amount of construction done last year and this year, I think Fall 2013 is more likely than not to be the actual opening date.


these are not anecdotes.
--LinkRemoved--
http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot. ... hools.html

30% biglaw placement at best will stil leave 70% with no reasonable way to pay back 200k+ in loans. Fordham's estimated cost is $268,000. 21 % of Fordham grads were underemployed, another 19% were employed in JD preferred jobs. 68% were employed in bar required positions, 14 % were school funded. Take out the school funding from the 68% employment score and Fordham is barely putting over 50% of its grads in bar required jobs. In the fall of 2008, 80-90% of Fordham perspective students were hoping to land biglaw. In the spring of 2011 only 19% realized that reality.

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flem
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Re: Fordham - Living at home

Postby flem » Tue May 29, 2012 10:42 am

Oh cool more of answer23's blatant anti-Fordham trolling.

Newsflash, little breh, this is true of like, 95% of all law schools. The odds just get shittier the further down you go.

answer23
Posts: 125
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:38 am

Re: Fordham - Living at home

Postby answer23 » Tue May 29, 2012 10:47 am

flem wrote:Oh cool more of answer23's blatant anti-Fordham trolling.

Newsflash, little breh, this is true of like, 95% of all law schools. The odds just get shittier the further down you go.


I said all schools outside the t14 not just Fordham. The question was about Fordham I answered about Fordham. But I'm guessing you didn't read that part.

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flem
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Re: Fordham - Living at home

Postby flem » Tue May 29, 2012 11:01 am

answer23 wrote:
I said all schools outside the t14 not just Fordham. The question was about Fordham I answered about Fordham. But I'm guessing you didn't read that part.


I scanned because you're a terrible poaster, but you seem to come out of the woodwork to troll anything related to Fordham.

answer23
Posts: 125
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:38 am

Re: Fordham - Living at home

Postby answer23 » Tue May 29, 2012 11:23 am

flem wrote:
answer23 wrote:
I said all schools outside the t14 not just Fordham. The question was about Fordham I answered about Fordham. But I'm guessing you didn't read that part.


I scanned because you're a terrible poaster, but you seem to come out of the woodwork to troll anything related to Fordham.


I’ve answered questions about Hofstra, St. John’s, Brooklyn, Fordham and Cardozo. Those are the schools I’m familiar with. edited-- don't want to give too much info.

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JCFindley
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Re: Fordham - Living at home

Postby JCFindley » Tue May 29, 2012 5:28 pm

answer23 wrote:
OnceUponAMemo wrote:
dingbat wrote:
answer23 wrote:To add to my earlier post. Fordham's nlj250 place for 2011 was 19%. You have an 70-81% chance of never making enough money to pay back those loans. Are you sure this is what you want to do? You got into Fordham, chances are you have other options with less debt. Take the other options retake or don't go.

NLJ250 is not the only chance of paying back your loans; not only that, class of 2010 might be the absolute low point. I don't see it going back to pre-crash 30-35% anytime soon, but about 25% placement in NLJ250 is probably a reasonable estimate. Add to that non-NLJ jobs that have reasonable income potential and it's not quite as doom and gloom as 70-81% chance of destitution (although admittedly at sticker it is a risky proposition)


Dingbat's response here is spot on. We will be able to see the first official Class of 2013 summer placement stats in a few weeks, but the NLJ 20% number that keeps getting thrown around is very outdated at this point. Although we can't be perfectly accurate, based on a conglomeration of anecdotes, there is widespread speculation that the Class of 2013 will be right around the 30% number, potentially up to 32%.
Regarding your original question OP, if you can live at home without a horrific commute, I would definitely recommend it. Many of your colleagues will and it saves enough money to be worth it and help defray overall law school costs.

Also, just an fyi, literally every single thing that answer23 has posted in this thread is dead wrong other than building delays in NYC are common. So, please, read everything he has posted, then think the exact opposite and you will have an accurate depiction of attending Fordham. Although he is correct that building delays in the city are the norm, Fordham has actually already delayed the opening of the new building from a much earlier expected date and seems intent on having the current date (Fall 2013) be realistic. Based on the amount of construction done last year and this year, I think Fall 2013 is more likely than not to be the actual opening date.


these are not anecdotes.
--LinkRemoved--
http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot. ... hools.html

30% biglaw placement at best will stil leave 70% with no reasonable way to pay back 200k+ in loans. Fordham's estimated cost is $268,000. 21 % of Fordham grads were underemployed, another 19% were employed in JD preferred jobs. 68% were employed in bar required positions, 14 % were school funded. Take out the school funding from the 68% employment score and Fordham is barely putting over 50% of its grads in bar required jobs. In the fall of 2008, 80-90% of Fordham perspective students were hoping to land biglaw. In the spring of 2011 only 19% realized that reality.


Your actual logic here is flawed....

First of all saying that 70% have no reasonable way to pay back 200+ K in loans is flawed in that your assumption here is that the entire 70% took out that much in loans. There are in fact many ways students can use to lower the borrowed cost of LS including but not limited to, working full time and attending LS part time, living at home to save CoL, merit scholarships, need based scholarships, savings and the GI Bill plus the yellow ribbon program. The likelihood that all 70% of students that did not get big-law had that much debt is flawed.....

Second, your assumption that 80-90% of students starting Fordham wanted big law to begin with seems a little out of the blue to me. Do you have a survey that I have not seen that is statistically viable that shows this 80-90% or are you just taking a WAG. Of the three people in the thread planning to attend Fordham this fall there is one that wants big law, one that wants PI and one that is unknown. Granted that is not a significant enough number to draw any useful statistical conclusions from but 80-90% seems a bit on the high side considering there are a lot of students that actually do not want big-law....

Lastly, 68%, mathematically speaking, is a lot more than "barely" over 50%; in fact it is 36% more than 50% or 72 of the ~400 FT students graduating from Fordham Law the year you are referencing. Of course barely is not actually an objective term and 90% might be barely more than 50% for some people......

Just a little food for thought about statistical accuracy.....

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dingbat
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Re: Fordham - Living at home

Postby dingbat » Tue May 29, 2012 7:55 pm

answer23 wrote:
OnceUponAMemo wrote:
dingbat wrote:
answer23 wrote:To add to my earlier post. Fordham's nlj250 place for 2011 was 19%. You have an 70-81% chance of never making enough money to pay back those loans. Are you sure this is what you want to do? You got into Fordham, chances are you have other options with less debt. Take the other options retake or don't go.

NLJ250 is not the only chance of paying back your loans; not only that, class of 2010 might be the absolute low point. I don't see it going back to pre-crash 30-35% anytime soon, but about 25% placement in NLJ250 is probably a reasonable estimate. Add to that non-NLJ jobs that have reasonable income potential and it's not quite as doom and gloom as 70-81% chance of destitution (although admittedly at sticker it is a risky proposition)


Dingbat's response here is spot on. We will be able to see the first official Class of 2013 summer placement stats in a few weeks, but the NLJ 20% number that keeps getting thrown around is very outdated at this point. Although we can't be perfectly accurate, based on a conglomeration of anecdotes, there is widespread speculation that the Class of 2013 will be right around the 30% number, potentially up to 32%.
Regarding your original question OP, if you can live at home without a horrific commute, I would definitely recommend it. Many of your colleagues will and it saves enough money to be worth it and help defray overall law school costs.

Also, just an fyi, literally every single thing that answer23 has posted in this thread is dead wrong other than building delays in NYC are common. So, please, read everything he has posted, then think the exact opposite and you will have an accurate depiction of attending Fordham. Although he is correct that building delays in the city are the norm, Fordham has actually already delayed the opening of the new building from a much earlier expected date and seems intent on having the current date (Fall 2013) be realistic. Based on the amount of construction done last year and this year, I think Fall 2013 is more likely than not to be the actual opening date.


these are not anecdotes.
--LinkRemoved--
http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot. ... hools.html

30% biglaw placement at best will stil leave 70% with no reasonable way to pay back 200k+ in loans. Fordham's estimated cost is $268,000. 21 % of Fordham grads were underemployed, another 19% were employed in JD preferred jobs. 68% were employed in bar required positions, 14 % were school funded. Take out the school funding from the 68% employment score and Fordham is barely putting over 50% of its grads in bar required jobs. In the fall of 2008, 80-90% of Fordham perspective students were hoping to land biglaw. In the spring of 2011 only 19% realized that reality.
your math doesn't add up
21% underemployed + 19% JD preferred + 68% bar required adds up to 108%
Off the top of my head, I recall 2010 had 7% unemployed and 14% in school funded positions (the merits of which are debatable - I've seen good arguments for and against)

I recall that in 2008, the year you are quoting, 44% were making scale, which is not bad at all; as for your comment that 80-90% want biglaw, I doubt that's true for any school
I don't have access to statistics right now, but they can easily be found.

As an aside, following an email exchange with law school transparency, I've come to the conclusion that while I trust their data is correct, their perspective is not, so I take everything on their website with a grain of salt (remember, there are many ways of interpreting the same data)

answer23
Posts: 125
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:38 am

Re: Fordham - Living at home

Postby answer23 » Wed May 30, 2012 12:53 pm

There's a difference between underemployed and unemployed. JD preffered overlaps with underemployed I think. 70% was a very generous leeway. All those other points are warranted. There's no way to find out for sure. If it is beneficial to Fordham then they should release more data that shows how well their grads are doing. I'm speculating at least 80% if not all Fordham students bid on biglaw oci. They have those details. They should release what the percentage of students who bid on biglaw firms were. My guess is that it's very high. Not everyone who bid biglaw at Fordham will get it. A huge percentage will have debt that they cannot service. 68% ft legal work is bad. Minus the 14% school funded jobs you're looking at 54% ft legal work. That's barely more than half.




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