What's the skinny on BYU?

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straxen
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Re: What's the skinny on BYU?

Postby straxen » Sun May 20, 2012 12:21 pm

I grew up LDS (mormon), and was raised in the area.

BYU is not just a religious school, it's probably one of the most religious schools there is. BYU is built around religion as is the entire culture. People will be friendly with you, but will likely maintain a distance. A religious non-mormon willing to live the lifestyle might be OK but I still wouldn't recommend it for non-mormons. But if you are a non-mormon atheist with a live-in boyfriend, you will be absolutely miserable (hell you'd be miserable just to live in Provo in general) and risk being expelled if your lifestyle is found out. The honor code is very strict.

Point is...BYU should not even be a consideration please don't go.

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MormonChristian
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Re: What's the skinny on BYU?

Postby MormonChristian » Sun May 20, 2012 12:27 pm

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:Above is right on.

Do not go to BYU if you are not a morman. /thread



Two Non-Mormon women who didn't listen to you and did very well for themselves.


Image

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: What's the skinny on BYU?

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Sun May 20, 2012 12:30 pm

MormonChristian wrote:
Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:Above is right on.

Do not go to BYU if you are not a morman. /thread



Two Non-Mormon women who didn't listen to you and did very well for themselves.


Image


Wow this is so random and creepy. Are these your relatives or something? Maybe they are famous-- I don't want TV, sorry.

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: What's the skinny on BYU?

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Sun May 20, 2012 12:34 pm

Also big shocker the dude who created the screen name "mormanschristain" is here defending BYU.

I just don't see a situation where going to BYU as a non-morman makes any sense. Go to UTAH, or CU/DU for a different mountain range. I doubt people in the top 1/3 who are not mormans are at a statistically significant advantage over someone who is top 1/3 at DU. The rankings outside the top 15-18 or so (whatever cut off large firms consider) are totally meaningless.

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MormonChristian
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Re: What's the skinny on BYU?

Postby MormonChristian » Sun May 20, 2012 12:47 pm

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:Wow this is so random and creepy. Are these your relatives or something?


Just say you hate Mormons and move along. Also, stop PMing me your bigoted comments you found on the internet.

Lastly, learn to play nice.
Last edited by MormonChristian on Sun May 20, 2012 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ineptimusprime
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Re: What's the skinny on BYU?

Postby ineptimusprime » Sun May 20, 2012 12:47 pm

I believe those two chicks are BYU professors -- not sure though. Anyways, I can think of a couple of anecdotal examples of people who had less than stellar experiences at BYU.

http://deadspin.com/5791461/the-truth-a ... ode-at-byu
http://deadspin.com/5791672/two-decades ... gallery/22


OP, these guys sound kinda like you... they liked the affordable tuition and quality of school. Read their comments for a taste of what it'll be like for you.

http://universe.byu.edu/index.php/2011/ ... -a-mormon/


I know BYU isn't for me, but maybe it is for you. I retract any earlier negative statements. It's really up to you if you can make it work. Just know that the honor code is taken VERY seriously.

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TaipeiMort
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Re: What's the skinny on BYU?

Postby TaipeiMort » Sun May 20, 2012 7:59 pm

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:Also big shocker the dude who created the screen name "mormanschristain" is here defending BYU.

I just don't see a situation where going to BYU as a non-morman makes any sense. Go to UTAH, or CU/DU for a different mountain range. I doubt people in the top 1/3 who are not mormans are at a statistically significant advantage over someone who is top 1/3 at DU. The rankings outside the top 15-18 or so (whatever cut off large firms consider) are totally meaningless.


True. Unless you are female or URM. BYU has a dirth of both and its network carries them farther than comparable schools.

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Re: What's the skinny on BYU?

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Sun May 20, 2012 11:23 pm

MormonChristian wrote:
Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:Wow this is so random and creepy. Are these your relatives or something?


Just say you hate Mormons and move along. Also, stop PMing me your bigoted comments you found on the internet.

Lastly, learn to play nice.


You PM'd me " go stink up another thread with your stupid, " and then I responded " from the guy who thinks he is going to inherit his own planet. "

Then you called me a bigot.

Do you actually believe that it was me who didn't play nice? Just wondering the extent of your crazy.

ineptimusprime
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Re: What's the skinny on BYU?

Postby ineptimusprime » Mon May 21, 2012 9:35 am

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:
MormonChristian wrote:
Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:Wow this is so random and creepy. Are these your relatives or something?


Just say you hate Mormons and move along. Also, stop PMing me your bigoted comments you found on the internet.

Lastly, learn to play nice.


You PM'd me " go stink up another thread with your stupid, " and then I responded " from the guy who thinks he is going to inherit his own planet. "

Then you called me a bigot.

Do you actually believe that it was me who didn't play nice? Just wondering the extent of your crazy.


Lord Randolph,

Just curious -- are you an atheist or agnostic? If so, carry on ripping on Mormons.

If not, please explain why your mythology is superior to anyone else's. If you can't do that using something besides the bible, shut your damn piehole.

I agree that this MormonChristian guy is a weirdo. I also agree that you're sort of being an ass.

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TaipeiMort
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Re: What's the skinny on BYU?

Postby TaipeiMort » Mon May 21, 2012 9:55 am

ineptimusprime wrote:
Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:
MormonChristian wrote:
Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:Wow this is so random and creepy. Are these your relatives or something?


Just say you hate Mormons and move along. Also, stop PMing me your bigoted comments you found on the internet.

Lastly, learn to play nice.


You PM'd me " go stink up another thread with your stupid, " and then I responded " from the guy who thinks he is going to inherit his own planet. "

Then you called me a bigot.

Do you actually believe that it was me who didn't play nice? Just wondering the extent of your crazy.


Lord Randolph,

Just curious -- are you an atheist or agnostic? If so, carry on ripping on Mormons.

If not, please explain why your mythology is superior to anyone else's. If you can't do that using something besides the bible, shut your damn piehole.

I agree that this MormonChristian guy is a weirdo. I also agree that you're sort of being an ass.


I don't think anyone should rip on anyone's beliefs. Atheists shouldn't claim any more moral high ground than any other group.

What is at best illogical devotion to the flying spaghetti monster to you is foundational and sacred to someone else.

ineptimusprime
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Re: What's the skinny on BYU?

Postby ineptimusprime » Mon May 21, 2012 9:55 am

wsj74 wrote:OP: Go to the U ... you're a 30 min drive from seven world-class ski resorts, 15 min from the airport and plus, Salt Lake City is great. I think when people from the east coast think of Denver, what they really have is Salt Lake in mind. All of this & not to mention the diversity that has come in since the Olympics.

And to the guy who loves Logan and hates everything south of Kaysville ... do you fuck sheep, or something?


I know this was asked sarcastically, but Ima go ahead and answer it anyway.

(1) Though I am Mormon, I typically hate other Mormons. (case in point, all of the Mormons in this thread. I've already typecasted all of them into typical Mormon archetypes).
(2) I hate self-righteous douches. This is somewhat related to point one.
(3) I hate large population centers (I readily admit I'm a horrible driver). My tastes in entertainment are so lowbrow that the "big city" offers me literally nothing that a small town doesn't offer.

Conclusion: I'd rather not deal with the traffic or congestion of SLC when I don't care about the supposed benefits it offers. While Logan has it's share of Mormons and self-righteous douches, in my experience, it gets worse the further into Utah that you get.

Also, I was raised in Nebraska and Idaho. What do you expect?

ineptimusprime
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Re: What's the skinny on BYU?

Postby ineptimusprime » Mon May 21, 2012 10:02 am

TaipeiMort wrote:I don't think anyone should rip on anyone's beliefs. Atheists shouldn't claim any more moral high ground than any other group.

What is at best illogical devotion to the flying spaghetti monster to you is foundational and sacred to someone else.


I agree with you -- on a moral level, no one should crap on someone else's beliefs. I just feel like someone arguing from the atheist/agnostic perspective will at least bring forward valid and interesting arguments against the belief in God.

It just irks me to no end when someone comes in with a "well, the bible says that..." or "Joseph Smith was known as a ______ in his time" type of argument.

I just get significantly more upset when I see someone telling someone else that their unempirically confirmed mythological worldview is somehow superior to someone elses than I do when an atheist makes a coherent argument.

And please, let's try not to offend the Pastafarians :D

Like I said, I am Mormon (I served a mission, married in the temple, etc.), though I am teetering on the edge between Mormonism and Agnosticism. I'm starting find all claims of absolute truth to be arrogant and offensive. Mormons who say they "know" their religion is true tick me off, as do Atheists who mock people who believe in God.

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kalvano
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Re: What's the skinny on BYU?

Postby kalvano » Mon May 21, 2012 10:12 am

Debate about religion aside, it doesn't seem like a good idea for an atheist living with her boyfriend out of marriage to go to one of the most religious (and serious about that religion) schools in the country. It just doesn't seem like a good fit.

Law school is hard enough without setting yourself up from the start to be alienated from your classmates. In fact, a good chunk of the importance of law school is making connections with professors and fellow classmates. It doesn't sound like BYU will offer this opportunity to non-Mormons.

ineptimusprime
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Re: What's the skinny on BYU?

Postby ineptimusprime » Mon May 21, 2012 10:26 am

kalvano wrote:Debate about religion aside, it doesn't seem like a good idea for an atheist living with her boyfriend out of marriage to go to one of the most religious (and serious about that religion) schools in the country. It just doesn't seem like a good fit.

Law school is hard enough without setting yourself up from the start to be alienated from your classmates. In fact, a good chunk of the importance of law school is making connections with professors and fellow classmates. It doesn't sound like BYU will offer this opportunity to non-Mormons.


TITCR. It doesn't seem like a good fit on first glance. My cousin is an atheist at BYU and absolutely hates it there. He has a countdown for the number of days until he graduates and will never have to see Provo or BYU again. I don't think you'll necessarily be alienated by your classmates. As long as you can handle the attempts at converting you with class, you'll be fine. I couldn't do it.

OP, If you haven't, I highly recommend you visit Provo before you decide to attend.

I don't think I can stress this enough -- be sure you can live without coffee, tea, and alcohol and are legally married to your BF before you get out there. They don't care if any of that is done on or off campus. If caught, they'll probably boot you. If you can't do all of that, then I echo what everyone else has said -- don't go to BYU.

I say this with some degree of experience. I attended BYU-Idaho for one semester back in 2006 and had run-ins with the honor code office.

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laxbrah420
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Re: What's the skinny on BYU?

Postby laxbrah420 » Mon May 21, 2012 10:39 am

not sure why this moved past brandon davies.

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Borhas
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Re: What's the skinny on BYU?

Postby Borhas » Mon May 21, 2012 10:42 am

ineptimusprime wrote:I don't think I can stress this enough -- be sure you can live without coffee, tea, and alcohol and are legally married to your BF before you get out there. They don't care if any of that is done on or off campus. If caught, they'll probably boot you. If you can't do all of that, then I echo what everyone else has said -- don't go to BYU.


This. Philosophical, religious, or political differences aren't going to be a problem. It's the lifestyle differences. If you are leftist atheist you could do well so long as you conform to the lifestyle. And as a student you agree to do those things, and if you have no intention of following that lifestyle but you agree to do so then you are kind of a liar too. But still, so much of Mormons' cultural and social life is built around the LDS Church, that if you don't go to Church regularly you won't be a full fledged member of their communities.

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: What's the skinny on BYU?

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Mon May 21, 2012 11:20 am

ineptimusprime wrote:
Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:
MormonChristian wrote:
Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:Wow this is so random and creepy. Are these your relatives or something?


Just say you hate Mormons and move along. Also, stop PMing me your bigoted comments you found on the internet.

Lastly, learn to play nice.


You PM'd me " go stink up another thread with your stupid, " and then I responded " from the guy who thinks he is going to inherit his own planet. "

Then you called me a bigot.

Do you actually believe that it was me who didn't play nice? Just wondering the extent of your crazy.


Lord Randolph,

Just curious -- are you an atheist or agnostic? If so, carry on ripping on Mormons.

If not, please explain why your mythology is superior to anyone else's. If you can't do that using something besides the bible, shut your damn piehole.

I agree that this MormonChristian guy is a weirdo. I also agree that you're sort of being an ass.


Yeah I don't deny I'm being an ass, its just that dude is a self-righteous ass and in my biased view that is much worse. He literally PM'd me and called me stupid, then wrote on the thread that I should stop PM'ing him. Scary nutso.

I'm agnostic. FWIW I grew up around some Mormans and there were the nicest people in my town. I just do not think going to BYU is a good idea for a non-morman, whereas mormanchristian seems to be saying that anyone who is a good person would have a great experience at BYU.

I do agree with you that it is ridiculous that people can rip on Mormans to the extent that it is culturally acceptable to do so, although saying things about other minority groups would be hate speech and make you a social pariah.

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: What's the skinny on BYU?

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Mon May 21, 2012 11:22 am

kalvano wrote:Debate about religion aside, it doesn't seem like a good idea for an atheist living with her boyfriend out of marriage to go to one of the most religious (and serious about that religion) schools in the country. It just doesn't seem like a good fit.

Law school is hard enough without setting yourself up from the start to be alienated from your classmates. In fact, a good chunk of the importance of law school is making connections with professors and fellow classmates. It doesn't sound like BYU will offer this opportunity to non-Mormons.


This is exactly right. /thread

EdgarWinter
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Re: What's the skinny on BYU?

Postby EdgarWinter » Wed May 23, 2012 2:31 am

People shouldn't think it is so terrible to crap on other people's beliefs. Crapping on other people's beliefs is how enlightenment advances.

Most Mormons I've met are polite if boring people who happen to support a fairly far-fetched, anti-gay and historically racist organization. I don't mind the first half of the sentence as much as the latter half of it. Going to BYU would bind you into supporting something that is inextricably tied to that organization. I would feel bad going to BYU for that reason even if BYU weren't a middling-at-best school with little but social suicide and a quasi-police-state existence to offer a student like the OP.

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Re: What's the skinny on BYU?

Postby ineptimusprime » Wed May 23, 2012 2:45 am

EdgarWinter wrote:People shouldn't think it is so terrible to crap on other people's beliefs. Crapping on other people's beliefs is how enlightenment advances.

Most Mormons I've met are polite if boring people who happen to support a fairly far-fetched, anti-gay and historically racist organization. I don't mind the first half of the sentence as much as the latter half of it. Going to BYU would bind you into supporting something that is inextricably tied to that organization. I would feel bad going to BYU for that reason even if BYU weren't a middling-at-best school with little but social suicide and a quasi-police-state existence to offer a student like the OP.


I'll have to remember that crapping on others beliefs is how progress is made. Next time I have a philosophical conversation with my dad about my "agnostic leanings," I'll be sure to tell him he's a stupid lemming for following his church leaders, use buzzwords like "racist" and "anti-gay" to describe his religion, and mention something about Joseph Smith being a conman as a parting shot.

Yep, that'll definitely convince him....that I'm a total asshole.

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TaipeiMort
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Re: What's the skinny on BYU?

Postby TaipeiMort » Wed May 23, 2012 2:57 am

EdgarWinter wrote:People shouldn't think it is so terrible to crap on other people's beliefs. Crapping on other people's beliefs is how enlightenment advances.

Most Mormons I've met are polite if boring people who happen to support a fairly far-fetched, anti-gay and historically racist organization. I don't mind the first half of the sentence as much as the latter half of it. Going to BYU would bind you into supporting something that is inextricably tied to that organization. I would feel bad going to BYU for that reason even if BYU weren't a middling-at-best school with little but social suicide and a quasi-police-state existence to offer a student like the OP.


I disagree with most of what you said. "Crapping on others' beliefs" is generally an unproductive way to achieve progress. I remember during Prop 8 in California that I had a good number of Mormon friends who were spat upon, had garbage thrown on them, and a couple even physically assaulted for supporting Prop 8. This made them less willing to listen to opposing ideas. I would think that cogent arguments which acknowledge some of the positives of Mormon opposition to gay marriage (a desire to maintain distinct familial roles which they believe create an optimal environment to raise children and maintain a lasting family unit) while discussing legal, moral, and social reasons for marriage equality would have been a much better and effective approach.

For example, BYU used to discpline students/ attempt to "fix" tendencies for being gay. Now, BYU allows LGBT students to openly attend school with equal rights. For example, this LGBT organization and message is now supported by the administration:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym0jXg-hKCI

I guarantee you progress came through an attempt to achieve mutual understanding and commonality, not through a worldview which summarily dismisses entire value sets in the name of progress. To deny that "far-fetched" Mormons hold some beliefs which may be better than your own is pretty prideful and wrong.

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Veyron
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Re: What's the skinny on BYU?

Postby Veyron » Wed May 23, 2012 3:17 am

EdgarWinter wrote:People shouldn't think it is so terrible to crap on other people's beliefs. Crapping on other people's beliefs is how enlightenment advances.

Most Mormons I've met are polite if boring people who happen to support a fairly far-fetched, anti-gay and historically racist organization. I don't mind the first half of the sentence as much as the latter half of it. Going to BYU would bind you into supporting something that is inextricably tied to that organization. I would feel bad going to BYU for that reason even if BYU weren't a middling-at-best school with little but social suicide and a quasi-police-state existence to offer a student like the OP.


I hate to break it to you buddy but there are a lot of LDS attorneys. This sort of attitude will get you about as far in the legal profession as sporting a swastika tattoo and a copy of Mein Kampf on your bookshelf. There is a place and time for theological prognostication; that time is college.

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TaipeiMort
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Re: What's the skinny on BYU?

Postby TaipeiMort » Wed May 23, 2012 3:23 am

Veyron wrote:
EdgarWinter wrote:People shouldn't think it is so terrible to crap on other people's beliefs. Crapping on other people's beliefs is how enlightenment advances.

Most Mormons I've met are polite if boring people who happen to support a fairly far-fetched, anti-gay and historically racist organization. I don't mind the first half of the sentence as much as the latter half of it. Going to BYU would bind you into supporting something that is inextricably tied to that organization. I would feel bad going to BYU for that reason even if BYU weren't a middling-at-best school with little but social suicide and a quasi-police-state existence to offer a student like the OP.


I hate to break it to you buddy but there are a lot of LDS attorneys. This sort of attitude will get you about as far in the legal profession as sporting a swastika tattoo and a copy of Mein Kampf on your bookshelf. There is a place and time for theological prognostication; that time is college.


And unlike law school it is pretty hard to differentiate Mormons once they are 30+. Many, many 30-somethings at big firms are married with a kid and well groomed.

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ru2486
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Re: What's the skinny on BYU?

Postby ru2486 » Wed May 23, 2012 3:58 am

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Last edited by ru2486 on Thu May 24, 2012 1:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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joemoviebuff
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Re: What's the skinny on BYU?

Postby joemoviebuff » Wed May 23, 2012 4:43 am

Careful folks, Corsair's gun be back and I reckon he won't be too happy.

Debating aside, OP, as yet another person raised Mormon and in Utah, I think your attending BYU would be a horrible decision, for the same reasons given above. You're right in that it's dirt cheap, but seriously just work on gaining some more points on the LSAT and get a scholarship to a school that will better suit you.

Or, seriously, book a trip to Provo for a week and hang out on campus. That'll convince you.




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