Berkeley vs NYU vs Northwestern vs Penn

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Berkeley vs NYU vs Northwestern vs Penn?

Berkeley
16
52%
NYU
9
29%
Northwestern
2
6%
UPenn
4
13%
 
Total votes: 31

cebuboy
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Berkeley vs NYU vs Northwestern vs Penn

Postby cebuboy » Tue May 15, 2012 7:57 am

Assuming you get into the 4 law schools, where would you go? No scholarship offers from all of them, and you want to work in LV or LA or SF later on.
Last edited by cebuboy on Wed May 16, 2012 2:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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catwomangirl
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Re: Berkeley vs NYU vs Northwestern vs Penn

Postby catwomangirl » Tue May 15, 2012 8:47 am

Berkeley

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Doorkeeper
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Re: Berkeley vs NYU vs Northwestern vs Penn

Postby Doorkeeper » Tue May 15, 2012 9:45 am

If you're sure you want to work in LA or SF, and cost is relatively equal, I would imagine Berkeley to be TCR here. NYU should really be the only other school in consideration.

cebuboy
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Re: Berkeley vs NYU vs Northwestern vs Penn

Postby cebuboy » Tue May 15, 2012 10:25 am

Doorkeeper wrote:If you're sure you want to work in LA or SF, and cost is relatively equal, I would imagine Berkeley to be TCR here. NYU should really be the only other school in consideration.


Yeah, Berkeley looks unbeatable here. But I'm curious. Why, what's wrong with a Penn or NU law degree in Cali/LV?

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Doorkeeper
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Re: Berkeley vs NYU vs Northwestern vs Penn

Postby Doorkeeper » Tue May 15, 2012 10:40 am

cebuboy wrote:
Doorkeeper wrote:If you're sure you want to work in LA or SF, and cost is relatively equal, I would imagine Berkeley to be TCR here. NYU should really be the only other school in consideration.


Yeah, Berkeley looks unbeatable here. But I'm curious. Why, what's wrong with a Penn or NU law degree in Cali/LV?

Well Penn and Northwestern both heavily focus into a specific market, NYC for the former and Chicago for the latter. I don't think anything is wrong with Penn or Northwestern, but if you want LA or SF then Berkeley and NYU are better options, with Berkeley being the best one.

SaintFond
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Re: Berkeley vs NYU vs Northwestern vs Penn

Postby SaintFond » Tue May 15, 2012 11:14 am

Doorkeeper wrote:If you're sure you want to work in LA or SF, and cost is relatively equal, I would imagine Berkeley to be TCR here. NYU should really be the only other school in consideration.

mushybrain
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Re: Berkeley vs NYU vs Northwestern vs Penn

Postby mushybrain » Tue May 15, 2012 12:54 pm

Just as a note on SF, my understanding of the market is that it is quite insular and very heavily favors Stanford and Berkeley grads.

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: Berkeley vs NYU vs Northwestern vs Penn

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Tue May 15, 2012 1:11 pm

Probably no reason to leave the West Coast if you want to work there later. If you had a hankering to live in NYC for a few years for some reason it wouldn't be a terrible decision.

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Dignan
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Re: Berkeley vs NYU vs Northwestern vs Penn

Postby Dignan » Tue May 15, 2012 2:57 pm

mushybrain wrote:Just as a note on SF, my understanding of the market is that it is quite insular and very heavily favors Stanford and Berkeley grads.

This is correct. If you're at median or a little below at Berkeley, you still have a legit shot a big law job in SF. I'm not sure that's true of the other three schools you're considering

Real Madrid
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Re: Berkeley vs NYU vs Northwestern vs Penn

Postby Real Madrid » Tue May 15, 2012 3:58 pm

Outside of NYC, NYU is no better than MVPB on down, and in California I suspect it'd be quite a ways behind Berkeley, actually.

jim-green
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Re: Berkeley vs NYU vs Northwestern vs Penn

Postby jim-green » Tue May 15, 2012 6:58 pm

Dignan wrote:
mushybrain wrote:Just as a note on SF, my understanding of the market is that it is quite insular and very heavily favors Stanford and Berkeley grads.
This is correct. If you're at median or a little below at Berkeley, you still have a legit shot a big law job in SF. I'm not sure that's true of the other three schools you're considering
This is interesting. Why would it be that if you're at median or a little below at Berkeley, you still have a legit shot a big law job in SF, but not if you're at median or below at NYU? Do you have to have better grades than a student at a local law school to get a job in that local area if the quality of your school and the local school are equal?

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moonman157
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Re: Berkeley vs NYU vs Northwestern vs Penn

Postby moonman157 » Tue May 15, 2012 7:01 pm

jim-green wrote:
Dignan wrote:
mushybrain wrote:Just as a note on SF, my understanding of the market is that it is quite insular and very heavily favors Stanford and Berkeley grads.
This is correct. If you're at median or a little below at Berkeley, you still have a legit shot a big law job in SF. I'm not sure that's true of the other three schools you're considering
This is interesting. Why would it be that if you're at median or a little below at Berkeley, you still have a legit shot a big law job in SF, but not if you're at median or below at NYU? Do you have to have better grades than a student at a local law school to get a job in that local area if the quality of your school and the local school are equal?


The Berkeley alumni network In SF probably explains the advantage here.

jim-green
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Re: Berkeley vs NYU vs Northwestern vs Penn

Postby jim-green » Tue May 15, 2012 7:14 pm

moonman157 wrote:
jim-green wrote:This is interesting. Why would it be that if you're at median or a little below at Berkeley, you still have a legit shot a big law job in SF, but not if you're at median or below at NYU? Do you have to have better grades than a student at a local law school to get a job in that local area if the quality of your school and the local school are equal?
The Berkeley alumni network In SF probably explains the advantage here.
Oh, OK, I was thinking surely in this age of the internet and communication, by now they should know even on the west coast that NYU is comparable to Cal and not some distant far away school that no one has heard of! It's the alumni network, not lack of knowledge of NYU's quality that is at work here.

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Dignan
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Re: Berkeley vs NYU vs Northwestern vs Penn

Postby Dignan » Tue May 15, 2012 7:27 pm

jim-green wrote:Oh, OK, I was thinking surely in this age of the internet and communication, by now they should know even on the west coast that NYU is comparable to Cal and not some distant far away school that no one has heard of! It's the alumni network, not lack of knowledge of NYU's quality that is at work here.

It's also a matter of logistics. There are more SF firms and offices at Berkeley's OCI because Berkeley is just a 20-minute drive away. And it's easier for these firms to throw a couple of additional callbacks to Berkeley students because they don't have to worry about arranging (and paying) for travel from the east coast.

Also, NYU isn't Harvard. NYU's prestige advantage over Berkeley, if it exists at all, is limited to NYC. Out in California, and especially in Northern California, Berkeley's reputation probably exceeds NYU's.

jim-green
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Re: Berkeley vs NYU vs Northwestern vs Penn

Postby jim-green » Tue May 15, 2012 7:46 pm

Dignan wrote:There are more SF firms and offices at Berkeley's OCI because Berkeley is just a 20-minute drive away. And it's easier for these firms to throw a couple of additional callbacks to Berkeley students because they don't have to worry about arranging (and paying) for travel from the east coast. Also, NYU isn't Harvard. NYU's prestige advantage over Berkeley, if it exists at all, is limited to NYC. Out in California, and especially in Northern California, Berkeley's reputation probably exceeds NYU's.
I understand the logistics and alumni part, but just don't get the prestige issue, why, "NYU's prestige advantage over Berkeley, if it exists at all, is limited to NYC." Without leaving your desk, you can switch on your computer and learn all about NYU, it's profs, classes and news. Why would prestige not carry over distance? I think it is not prestige in a vacuum, but prestige with respect to alumni networks playing a role here.

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Dignan
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Re: Berkeley vs NYU vs Northwestern vs Penn

Postby Dignan » Tue May 15, 2012 7:57 pm

jim-green wrote: understand the logistics and alumni part, but just don't get the prestige issue, why, "NYU's prestige advantage over Berkeley, if it exists at all, is limited to NYC." Without leaving your desk, you can switch on your computer and learn all about NYU, it's profs, classes and news. Why would prestige not carry over distance?

Why would a working lawyer spend time on the internet reading about NYU's (or any other law school's) profs and classes? For the most part, lawyers assess the "prestige" of a law school based on their experiences with that school's graduates over a period of several years.

By the way, I think NYU has a spectacular faculty—it's arguably better than any law school outside of HY. But the academic quality of a given school's faculty basically plays no role in biglaw hiring.

poe
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Re: Berkeley vs NYU vs Northwestern vs Penn

Postby poe » Tue May 15, 2012 8:54 pm

All this talk about NYU being weak on the West Coast is terrifying. I just got denied a matching scholarship at Berkeley, so I feel like I now have no choice but to go to NYU (they offered $60k). I really hope I'm not giving up my best shot at California employment.

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Dignan
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Re: Berkeley vs NYU vs Northwestern vs Penn

Postby Dignan » Tue May 15, 2012 9:14 pm

poe wrote:All this talk about NYU being weak on the West Coast is terrifying. I just got denied a matching scholarship at Berkeley, so I feel like I now have no choice but to go to NYU (they offered $60k). I really hope I'm not giving up my best shot at California employment.

Just to be clear, I don't think that NYU is "weak" on the West Coast. It's an excellent law school with a strong national reputation. If you do well there, you'll be competitive in the California job market. But it appears to me that law firms in California (and particularly Northern California) will dip deeper into Boalt's class than NYU's class.

I don't think you're making a bad choice by accepting $60K from NYU. Although you may have slightly compromised your chances at landing a California job, you are going to be in better position for a job in NYC. An NYU grad at median will generally have more opportunities in NYC than will a Boalt grad at median.

poe
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Re: Berkeley vs NYU vs Northwestern vs Penn

Postby poe » Tue May 15, 2012 9:19 pm

Dignan wrote:
poe wrote:All this talk about NYU being weak on the West Coast is terrifying. I just got denied a matching scholarship at Berkeley, so I feel like I now have no choice but to go to NYU (they offered $60k). I really hope I'm not giving up my best shot at California employment.

Just to be clear, I don't think that NYU is "weak" on the West Coast. It's an excellent law school with a strong national reputation. If you do well there, you'll be competitive in the California job market. But it appears to me that law firms in California (and particularly Northern California) will dip deeper into Boalt's class than NYU's class.

I don't think you're making a bad choice by accepting $60K from NYU. Although you may have slightly compromised your chances at landing a California job, you are going to be in better position for a job in NYC. An NYU grad at median will generally have more opportunities in NYC than will a Boalt grad at median.


Yeah, but I really don't want to work in NYC. So I'm not sure how much good that does me. :|

jim-green
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Re: Berkeley vs NYU vs Northwestern vs Penn

Postby jim-green » Tue May 15, 2012 9:48 pm

Dignan wrote:Why would a working lawyer spend time on the internet reading about NYU's (or any other law school's) profs and classes? For the most part, lawyers assess the "prestige" of a law school based on their experiences with that school's graduates over a period of several years. By the way, I think NYU has a spectacular faculty—it's arguably better than any law school outside of HY. But the academic quality of a given school's faculty basically plays no role in biglaw hiring.
OK, thanks, so it is not prestige in a vacuum, but prestige with respect to experience and alumni networks playing a role here.

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moonman157
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Re: Berkeley vs NYU vs Northwestern vs Penn

Postby moonman157 » Tue May 15, 2012 9:56 pm

poe wrote:
Dignan wrote:
poe wrote:All this talk about NYU being weak on the West Coast is terrifying. I just got denied a matching scholarship at Berkeley, so I feel like I now have no choice but to go to NYU (they offered $60k). I really hope I'm not giving up my best shot at California employment.

Just to be clear, I don't think that NYU is "weak" on the West Coast. It's an excellent law school with a strong national reputation. If you do well there, you'll be competitive in the California job market. But it appears to me that law firms in California (and particularly Northern California) will dip deeper into Boalt's class than NYU's class.

I don't think you're making a bad choice by accepting $60K from NYU. Although you may have slightly compromised your chances at landing a California job, you are going to be in better position for a job in NYC. An NYU grad at median will generally have more opportunities in NYC than will a Boalt grad at median.


Yeah, but I really don't want to work in NYC. So I'm not sure how much good that does me. :|


If it's any comfort, you won't face the competition for CA biglaw that you would at a CA school, since most students will self-select into NYC

poe
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Re: Berkeley vs NYU vs Northwestern vs Penn

Postby poe » Tue May 15, 2012 10:39 pm

moonman157 wrote:
poe wrote:
Dignan wrote:
poe wrote:All this talk about NYU being weak on the West Coast is terrifying. I just got denied a matching scholarship at Berkeley, so I feel like I now have no choice but to go to NYU (they offered $60k). I really hope I'm not giving up my best shot at California employment.

Just to be clear, I don't think that NYU is "weak" on the West Coast. It's an excellent law school with a strong national reputation. If you do well there, you'll be competitive in the California job market. But it appears to me that law firms in California (and particularly Northern California) will dip deeper into Boalt's class than NYU's class.

I don't think you're making a bad choice by accepting $60K from NYU. Although you may have slightly compromised your chances at landing a California job, you are going to be in better position for a job in NYC. An NYU grad at median will generally have more opportunities in NYC than will a Boalt grad at median.


Yeah, but I really don't want to work in NYC. So I'm not sure how much good that does me. :|


If it's any comfort, you won't face the competition for CA biglaw that you would at a CA school, since most students will self-select into NYC


True. Though I've heard mixed things about whether that's really a benefit. Might be better to just have more CA firms interviewing at your school in the first place.

cebuboy
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Re: Berkeley vs NYU vs Northwestern vs Penn

Postby cebuboy » Wed May 16, 2012 1:34 am

Thanks for you posts, digman. They're truly invaluable.

What about if I'll decide to work in LV? Would a Berkeley Law degree be held in high regard there too?

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moonman157
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Re: Berkeley vs NYU vs Northwestern vs Penn

Postby moonman157 » Wed May 16, 2012 1:43 am

poe wrote:Just to be clear, I don't think that NYU is "weak" on the West Coast. It's an excellent law school with a strong national reputation. If you do well there, you'll be competitive in the California job market. But it appears to me that law firms in California (and particularly Northern California) will dip deeper into Boalt's class than NYU's class.

I don't think you're making a bad choice by accepting $60K from NYU. Although you may have slightly compromised your chances at landing a California job, you are going to be in better position for a job in NYC. An NYU grad at median will generally have more opportunities in NYC than will a Boalt grad at median.


Yeah, but I really don't want to work in NYC. So I'm not sure how much good that does me. :|[/quote]

If it's any comfort, you won't face the competition for CA biglaw that you would at a CA school, since most students will self-select into NYC[/quote]

True. Though I've heard mixed things about whether that's really a benefit. Might be better to just have more CA firms interviewing at your school in the first place.[/quote]

True. There are pros and cons to both, perhaps an edge given to the person who goes to the CA school. Still, I just wanted to reassure the poster that all is not lost. NYU is still a great option, regardless of where you want to end up. Its reputation is definitely strongest in NYC, but it's certainly not limited.

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: Berkeley vs NYU vs Northwestern vs Penn

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Wed May 16, 2012 1:48 am

NYU sends plenty of people to California. If you look at the placement numbers it's been at least equivalent to Chicago and Columbia in West Coast placement for many years. The notion that it doesn't seems to be some weird TLS echo-chamber effect. Don't sweat it, poe.




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