UIUC (Univ. Of Illinois UC)Vs. Indiana-Bloomington (Maurer)

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cheetagirl
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UIUC (Univ. Of Illinois UC)Vs. Indiana-Bloomington (Maurer)

Postby cheetagirl » Mon May 14, 2012 1:00 pm

I am currently choosing between University of Illinois Urbana Champaign and University of Indiana-Bloomington (Maurer) School of Law. I am originally from CA, did my undergraduate there. After Graduation, my goal is to practice biglaw either back in California or perhaps East Coast, somewhere such as NY. Even if it turns out that I have to practice in the Midwest for a couple years before migrating my way back to the East or West Coast, I guess I'd rather do it in Chicago and not in Indiana. I've been given full scholarships from both universities. Which school would you go to? Which school would be the smarter school? I'm a bit clueless, and I've been doing my research but from what I can tell both schools are very similar. I was leaning more towards UIUC, But I am VERY concerned about the drop in ranking from #23 to #35. I'm wondering whether news of the scandal and drop in rankings will affect things such as OCI, who comes to their campus to recruit, and the general reputability of the school in general; I'm wondering how significant of a factor it should be in my decision to attend or not attend UIUC. Any other/relevant insight/comments/suggestions would be greatly appreciated!! Thank You So Much!

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flem
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Re: UIUC (Univ. Of Illinois UC)Vs. Indiana-Bloomington (Maurer)

Postby flem » Mon May 14, 2012 1:04 pm

cheetagirl wrote:I am currently choosing between University of Illinois Urbana Champaign and University of Indiana-Bloomington (Maurer) School of Law. I am originally from CA, did my undergraduate there. After Graduation, my goal is to practice biglaw either back in California or perhaps East Coast, somewhere such as NY. Even if it turns out that I have to practice in the Midwest for a couple years before migrating my way back to the East or West Coast, I guess I'd rather do it in Chicago and not in Indiana. I've been given full scholarships from both universities. Which school would you go to? Which school would be the smarter school? I'm a bit clueless, and I've been doing my research but from what I can tell both schools are very similar. I was leaning more towards UIUC, But I am VERY concerned about the drop in ranking from #23 to #35. I'm wondering whether news of the scandal and drop in rankings will affect things such as OCI, who comes to their campus to recruit, and the general reputability of the school in general; I'm wondering how significant of a factor it should be in my decision to attend or not attend UIUC. Any other/relevant insight/comments/suggestions would be greatly appreciated!! Thank You So Much!


This goal is incompatible with these schools. Retake or don't go.

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togepi
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Re: UIUC (Univ. Of Illinois UC)Vs. Indiana-Bloomington (Maurer)

Postby togepi » Mon May 14, 2012 1:07 pm

If there's no scholarship stipulations, take UIUC. Although they took a big hit in the rankings (due to gaming the ranking systems or some bullshit) it's not like their quality of student body has decreased. Regardless, Maurer has pretty minimal job placements as far as biglaw is concerned. UIUC is probably around top 25% for biglaw while Maurer is around 10. Check the ABA placement data for a better outlook. With UIUC you'll be looking at Chicago biglaw. You'll probably have to get some good years under your belt to make it back over to California.

http://placementsummary.abaquestionnaire.org/home.aspx

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blurbz
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Re: UIUC (Univ. Of Illinois UC)Vs. Indiana-Bloomington (Maurer)

Postby blurbz » Mon May 14, 2012 1:10 pm

The scandal doesn't seem to have effected employment at Illinois. It happened when I was going through OCI and, while most employers were aware of it, it only came up in a "well that sucks" sort of conversation. From all that I've heard coming out of our OCS, the list of OCI employers coming this year doesn't look like it's taken a hit, either. Class of 13 did better than class of 12 and, assuming the economy doesn't collapse this summer, class of 14 should probably do better still.

Neither Illinois nor Indiana is a national school. There are a few people here at Illinois who are going to NYC, a group to Texas, DC, and a handful to CA, but those people are the exception rather than the rule; the majority of our placement is in the Midwest (mainly Chicago). I have a buddy here who was top 5% after 1L and grew up in SoCal but couldn't get back to LA. Sure, he landed biglaw--but it's in Chicago.

Indiana does not reach Chicago nearly as well as Illinois and their placement, by and large, lags behind Illinois. If money is equal and you prefer Chicago to Indianapolis for the beginning of your post-law school career, Illinois is by FAR the better choice.

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togepi
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Re: UIUC (Univ. Of Illinois UC)Vs. Indiana-Bloomington (Maurer)

Postby togepi » Mon May 14, 2012 1:14 pm

Definitely take a look at where the class of 2010 ended up on that ABA website I linked earlier. That'll make the decision (if you're set on going) pretty damn easy.

Hopefully your scholarships don't have any ridiculous stipulations.

cheetagirl
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Re: UIUC (Univ. Of Illinois UC)Vs. Indiana-Bloomington (Maurer)

Postby cheetagirl » Mon May 14, 2012 1:17 pm

Well. In that case -- It's not as if I have not gotten into any CA Schools. I got into University of San Diego, and Case Western University. Also got into Golden Gate and University of San Francisco. Also Whittier and Chapman -- As you probably know those schools are wayyyyy down the rankings. To me it almost makes no sense for me to go to those places if I've gotten into a top 25 school. Think it's smarter for me to go to one of those schools if I want to do biglaw here in Cali? Transferring is also always an option, in the plans as well, probably necessary for my goals. But I have to obviously maximize my opportunities that I'm presented with right now.


Also, I did notice that on Vault's top 25, Illinois is nowhere to be seen but Maurer is there. Any thoughts?

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flem
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Re: UIUC (Univ. Of Illinois UC)Vs. Indiana-Bloomington (Maurer)

Postby flem » Mon May 14, 2012 1:20 pm

cheetagirl wrote:Well. In that case -- It's not as if I have not gotten into any CA Schools. I got into University of San Diego, and Case Western University. Also got into Golden Gate and University of San Francisco. Also Whittier and Chapman -- As you probably know those schools are wayyyyy down the rankings. To me it almost makes no sense for me to go to those places if I've gotten into a top 25 school. Think it's smarter for me to go to one of those schools if I want to do biglaw here in Cali? Transferring is also always an option, in the plans as well, probably necessary for my goals. But I have to obviously maximize my opportunities that I'm presented with right now.


Also, I did notice that on Vault's top 25, Illinois is nowhere to be seen but Maurer is there. Any thoughts?


Are you a huge splitter? The good CA schools are notorious GPA whores.

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Verity
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Re: UIUC (Univ. Of Illinois UC)Vs. Indiana-Bloomington (Maurer)

Postby Verity » Mon May 14, 2012 1:51 pm

I go to Maurer, and instead of giving you anecdotes, I'll just say to look at the stats. Some people I know got biglaw, others didn't. Statistically, UIUC has the better placement. I definitely think Maurer is a very challenging law school, and Bloomington is very nice (beautiful campus). But right now, the numbers indicate that UIUC gives you a better chance at getting a good job (at least in Chicago). As far as the Vault rankings, which are measured based on feedback from law firm partners, that makes some sense. I talked to a number of people who are partners at law firms, and Maurer is very well regarded. Granted, most of them were alums from Indianapolis and Chicago. But don't put too huge an emphasis on these rankings, because every year a lot of these huge shifts make little sense. UIUC has basically the same reputation this year as it did last year; same for Maurer. Both are very strong schools, but both are highly regional. And don't count on OCI to get you biglaw at either.

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Re: UIUC (Univ. Of Illinois UC)Vs. Indiana-Bloomington (Maurer)

Postby Chippy » Mon May 14, 2012 1:57 pm

Illinois gives you nearly 2 times (slightly more) at getting big law. It's like 9 percent v. 25 percent. This isn't even close. Vault rankings don't mean anything if they don't translate into quantitatively more jobs.

UIUC with a full ride is a great deal. I'm normally in the retake camp, but this seems like a good decision.

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Re: UIUC (Univ. Of Illinois UC)Vs. Indiana-Bloomington (Maurer)

Postby cheetagirl » Mon May 14, 2012 11:01 pm

Okay What if I phrased the question like this. What If I'm interested in getting a big law job, period .. whether it be in LA, NY, Chicago, DC. Then, would you guys still advise to retake? Because correct me if I'm wrong but I feel that UIUC is one of the greatest schools to be at (Behind Northwestern and UChicago?) for a shot at biglaw in Chicago (provided I get food grades and am pro active about networking and job hunting). Thoughts?

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Re: UIUC (Univ. Of Illinois UC)Vs. Indiana-Bloomington (Maurer)

Postby JoeFish » Mon May 14, 2012 11:07 pm

cheetagirl wrote:Then, would you guys still advise to retake? Because correct me if I'm wrong but I feel that UIUC is one of the greatest schools to be at (Behind Northwestern and UChicago?) for a shot at biglaw in Chicago (provided I get food grades and am pro active about networking and job hunting).


mmmmmmmm.... food grades...

Yes: if you are dead set on biglaw, retake. Unfortunately, you've probably got about a 1/5 chance at Illinois.

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tmon
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Re: UIUC (Univ. Of Illinois UC)Vs. Indiana-Bloomington (Maurer)

Postby tmon » Mon May 14, 2012 11:09 pm

cheetagirl wrote:Okay What if I phrased the question like this. What If I'm interested in getting a big law job, period .. whether it be in LA, NY, Chicago, DC.

That would probably make everyone's advice to retake even stronger. There are many schools ahead of UIUC and IUB when it comes to hiring preferences. Namely, most to all of the T-14.

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Re: UIUC (Univ. Of Illinois UC)Vs. Indiana-Bloomington (Maurer)

Postby bk1 » Mon May 14, 2012 11:12 pm

cheetagirl wrote:Okay What if I phrased the question like this. What If I'm interested in getting a big law job, period .. whether it be in LA, NY, Chicago, DC. Then, would you guys still advise to retake? Because correct me if I'm wrong but I feel that UIUC is one of the greatest schools to be at (Behind Northwestern and UChicago?) for a shot at biglaw in Chicago (provided I get food grades and am pro active about networking and job hunting). Thoughts?


Being 3rd in Chicago (behind UChi/NU) isn't all that important for two reasons:

1. UIUC is essentially tied for 3rd with UIUC/ND. Not to mention you have all the top tier state schools that are lapping at those schools' heels (UW/OSU/UMN/IUB/etc). Not to mention the fact that the top of the class at ChicagoKent/DePaul/Loyola are all taking spots too. On top of that it's not even really 3rd. You have UMich in the midwest too and you have people from Chicago who go to other T14 schools.

2. Even if it was 3rd, it's not a close 3rd. If job placement was a 1 mile race, UChi/NU would finish in 1st/2nd coming in at something like 3mins and 3.5mins. Even if UIUC was 3rd, it's essentially coming in at 20mins. Even though it might be roughly 3rd, it's still way way way way behind.

If you want biglaw, don't go to less than a T14. Also, don't count on realistically doing any better than median.

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Re: UIUC (Univ. Of Illinois UC)Vs. Indiana-Bloomington (Maurer)

Postby top30man » Mon May 14, 2012 11:15 pm

bk1 wrote:
cheetagirl wrote:Okay What if I phrased the question like this. What If I'm interested in getting a big law job, period .. whether it be in LA, NY, Chicago, DC. Then, would you guys still advise to retake? Because correct me if I'm wrong but I feel that UIUC is one of the greatest schools to be at (Behind Northwestern and UChicago?) for a shot at biglaw in Chicago (provided I get food grades and am pro active about networking and job hunting). Thoughts?


Being 3rd in Chicago (behind UChi/NU) isn't all that important for two reasons:

1. UIUC is essentially tied for 3rd with UIUC/ND. Not to mention you have all the top tier state schools that are lapping at those schools' heels (UW/OSU/UMN/IUB/etc). Not to mention the fact that the top of the class at ChicagoKent/DePaul/Loyola are all taking spots too. On top of that it's not even really 3rd. You have UMich in the midwest too and you have people from Chicago who go to other T14 schools.

2. Even if it was 3rd, it's not a close 3rd. If job placement was a 1 mile race, UChi/NU would finish in 1st/2nd coming in at something like 3mins and 3.5mins. Even if UIUC was 3rd, it's essentially coming in at 20mins. Even though it might be roughly 3rd, it's still way way way way behind.

If you want biglaw, don't go to less than a T14. Also, don't count on realistically doing any better than median.

I agree. Being third best doesn't mean much. It seems like you have to be top of the class to be competitive, as far as the oci thread and the big law data shows. There's an 80 percent chance you won't be top 20. It may be good for Chicago small firms etc but that doesn't seem like what you want. Definitely retake if you want big law. The t14 will be the schools to get you there.

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Ludo!
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Re: UIUC (Univ. Of Illinois UC)Vs. Indiana-Bloomington (Maurer)

Postby Ludo! » Mon May 14, 2012 11:39 pm

Agree with everyone else - UIUC definitely over Indiana (dip in rankings is not going to affect job prospects) but if you're BigLaw or bust it's retake or don't go.

cheetagirl
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Re: UIUC (Univ. Of Illinois UC)Vs. Indiana-Bloomington (Maurer)

Postby cheetagirl » Tue May 15, 2012 12:37 am

Okay I hear you guys --- Unfortunately retaking isn't an option for me at this point so I'm just going to dive into it and do my best and work really hard to either be at the top of my class or transfer. Easier said than done, definitely. But I appreciate the honesty! This really helped, if nothing else to decide which school I should go to .. Thanks!

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Re: UIUC (Univ. Of Illinois UC)Vs. Indiana-Bloomington (Maurer)

Postby flem » Tue May 15, 2012 8:47 am

cheetagirl wrote:Okay I hear you guys --- Unfortunately retaking isn't an option for me at this point so I'm just going to dive into it and do my best and work really hard to either be at the top of my class or transfer. Easier said than done, definitely. But I appreciate the honesty! This really helped, if nothing else to decide which school I should go to .. Thanks!


Good luck I guess.

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stillwater
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Re: UIUC (Univ. Of Illinois UC)Vs. Indiana-Bloomington (Maurer)

Postby stillwater » Tue May 15, 2012 9:00 am

The road to failure is riddled with hard workers and transfer hopefuls.

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Ludo!
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Re: UIUC (Univ. Of Illinois UC)Vs. Indiana-Bloomington (Maurer)

Postby Ludo! » Tue May 15, 2012 9:09 am

cheetagirl wrote:Okay I hear you guys --- Unfortunately retaking isn't an option for me at this point so I'm just going to dive into it and do my best and work really hard to either be at the top of my class or transfer. Easier said than done, definitely. But I appreciate the honesty! This really helped, if nothing else to decide which school I should go to .. Thanks!


It's a lot easier to retake the LSAT then it is to be at the top of your class. Why can't you retake?

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top30man
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Re: UIUC (Univ. Of Illinois UC)Vs. Indiana-Bloomington (Maurer)

Postby top30man » Tue May 15, 2012 9:43 am

Ludovico Technique wrote:
cheetagirl wrote:Okay I hear you guys --- Unfortunately retaking isn't an option for me at this point so I'm just going to dive into it and do my best and work really hard to either be at the top of my class or transfer. Easier said than done, definitely. But I appreciate the honesty! This really helped, if nothing else to decide which school I should go to .. Thanks!


It's a lot easier to retake the LSAT then it is to be at the top of your class. Why can't you retake?

Is there a compelling reason you cannot wait a year? How set are you on big law? If you really want it you should wait unless there is some reason you cannot. If you go to uiuc be realistic about your goals. Some people get big law at Illinois but most do not.

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Re: UIUC (Univ. Of Illinois UC)Vs. Indiana-Bloomington (Maurer)

Postby flem » Tue May 15, 2012 9:46 am

top30man wrote:Is there a compelling reason you cannot wait a year? How set are you on big law? If you really want it you should wait unless there is some reason you cannot. If you go to uiuc be realistic about your goals. Some people get big law at Illinois but most do not.


Spoiler alert: there is almost never a compelling reason.

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stillwater
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Re: UIUC (Univ. Of Illinois UC)Vs. Indiana-Bloomington (Maurer)

Postby stillwater » Tue May 15, 2012 9:50 am

flem wrote:
top30man wrote:Is there a compelling reason you cannot wait a year? How set are you on big law? If you really want it you should wait unless there is some reason you cannot. If you go to uiuc be realistic about your goals. Some people get big law at Illinois but most do not.


Spoiler alert: there is almost never a compelling reason.


They gotta get on with their career, BRO

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flem
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Re: UIUC (Univ. Of Illinois UC)Vs. Indiana-Bloomington (Maurer)

Postby flem » Tue May 15, 2012 9:51 am

stillwater wrote:
They gotta get on with their career, BRO


IBK-JD

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Ludo!
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Re: UIUC (Univ. Of Illinois UC)Vs. Indiana-Bloomington (Maurer)

Postby Ludo! » Tue May 15, 2012 9:54 am

flem wrote:
stillwater wrote:
They gotta get on with their career, BRO


IBK-JD


IB I'm already 23 if I wait another year to go to law school ill be too OLD!

cheetagirl
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Re: UIUC (Univ. Of Illinois UC)Vs. Indiana-Bloomington (Maurer)

Postby cheetagirl » Fri May 25, 2012 1:21 pm

The compelling reason being I've taken the lsat three times already. So I'm not trying to wait another 5 years. Besides I've done my research -- look like UIUC is the second largest schools from which Chicago firms recruit, behind Northwestern ahead of Uchicago. That seemed weird to me so I looked into it and apparently Uchicago is more famous for producing intellectuals, and less hardworking partner material graduates, unlike UIUC. Again this is just my research. But I dunno -- my chances for law in Chicago seem pretty promising.




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