OSU vs. Fordham Forum

[Pygmaeus]

OSU
In-state tuition and scholarship puts me at $17K Tuition a year – I’ll prob end up with around $70K of debt after blowing my savings
I like Ohio and Columbus – Close to family and friends
Ties to Ohio (Went to undergrad in Cleveland and have worked here for the past 2 ½ yeas)

Fordham
Paying sticker price – probably end with $200K+ in debt
Awesome location
Some ties, but not many

I’m interested in tax and entrepreneurial law. I visited and really like both schools. Fordham seems to have a good tax program, and OSU has an interesting entrepreneurial program. I like Ohio and would eventually want to move back after living and working in NYC for a while. NYC is very exciting/glamorous, the caliber of law firms and lawyers there makes it seem like a good place to cut my teeth, and I have a significantly higher potential income.

My stats are 3.14 and 166, and I am not interested in retaking.

OSU seems like the best choice, but the excitement and opportunities of NYC are important to me.

Let me know what you think, and what variables I should factor into making a decision.

[rad lulz]

You have no business taking out $200k in loans to go to Fordham. Enjoy OSU. If you really want to experience NYC or whatever, like working in a NYC biglawl firm, retake.

[Pygmaeus]

Could you explain why you think $200K of debt is too risky? I agree, that is a huge risk, but I’m not sure why it excludes Fordham as an option.

If I get biglaw, it seems like the debt would be managable. If I don’t get biglaw, I’m royally screwed.

From what I understand, I need to be in the top 30% of Fordham to get a shot at biglaw, which while it may be difficult, would not be absurd. So there is one risk. If I don’t manage that, but I am ranked competitively, I will also have the option of getting my CPA (I just finished the last class I would need to sit for the exam). Having a CPA may be an advantage over other students, and I could always work as an accountant if things go terribly.

Let me know what factors you think I am missing.

[flem]

Could you explain why you think $200K of debt is too risky? I agree, that is a huge risk, but I’m not sure why it excludes Fordham as an option.

If I get biglaw, it seems like the debt would be managable. If I don’t get biglaw, I’m royally screwed.

Fordham is only placing 25ish% into biglaw jobs. So you have a 75% chance of getting royally screwed from a pure odds standpoint. That's why it's exclusionary.

[Pygmaeus]

Let me preface this comment with the fact that I am leaning towards OSU right now.

I don’t know that considering this as an issue of probability or gambling makes sense. This is not a game of chance or at least I hope it is not. Going to law school is not the same as tossing dice with a 25% chance of winning. I think what is more important is who you are competing against for grades, and whether or not being in the top 25% is reasonable.

Granted, as metrics, my LSAT and GPA are not great indicators that I will be in the top 25% of my class at Fordham, but if one puts in the hours to understand law and and how to test, and hangs out on TLS then maybe there is a reasonable shot at biglaw.

Could you explain why you think $200K of debt is too risky? I agree, that is a huge risk, but I’m not sure why it excludes Fordham as an option.

If I get biglaw, it seems like the debt would be managable. If I don’t get biglaw, I’m royally screwed.

Fordham is only placing 25ish% into biglaw jobs. So you have a 75% chance of getting royally screwed from a pure odds standpoint. That's why it's exclusionary.

[flem]

Let me preface this comment with the fact that I am leaning towards OSU right now.

I don’t know that considering this as an issue of probability or gambling makes sense. This is not a game of chance or at least I hope it is not. Going to law school is not the same as tossing dice with a 25% chance of winning. I think what is more important is who you are competing against for grades, and whether or not being in the top 25% is reasonable.

Granted, as metrics, my LSAT and GPA are not great indicators that I will be in the top 25% of my class at Fordham, but if one puts in the hours to understand law and and how to test, and hangs out on TLS then maybe there is a reasonable shot at biglaw.

Of course there are other factors - but since everyone at law school will be just as smart as you and you're competing against a forced curve, looking at it from a pure odds standpoint makes more sense than you might think.

[peelem]

I am currently in undergrad near Columbus and considering OSU for law school. I have a friend whose mom recruits for her national firm at OSU and frequently sends recent grads to NY and DC. Columbus is a fantastic area with a low cost of living. I'm largely considering OSU to save money. 200k vs. 70k is a huge difference in debt. Work very hard at OSU, graduate in the top 20% and see what happens.

[rad lulz]

It's a common misconception that you can just grind your way into the top third or whatever. Law school testing is a skill you don't know whether you have until you take a test. And it's gonna take luck: how well your classmates do, and how your prof. likes to grade. Reading GtM over and over won't change that. I know people who work hard and have bad grades, people who work hard who have sick grades, and a lot in between.

Law school grading isn't totally arbitrary, but it is completely unpredictable. So considering the above, making a decision based on the fact that "top 30% doesn't seem too hard" is pretty stupid.

[CanadianWolf]

Ohio State is the better choice in your situation due to your ties to the area & state in addition to the much lower cost.

As a future CPA, you may have a bit of difficulty adjusting to writing law school exams which could dampen chances for obtaining biglaw & paying off $200,000+ student loan debt. Accounting is a precise science whereas law is not.

After completing law school & obtaining your CPA certification, you should have three options:

1) work for a law firm

2) work for a law or consulting firm while also attending law school part-time for an LLM in tax law

3) as a full-time LLM tax law student at NYU, Georgetown , Florida or other law school.

Although your current employer may have an educational reimbursement program for the LLM degree why risk taking on more student loan debt than is necessary if intending to obtain an LLM in taxation ? Therefore OSU makes more sense due to much lower debt.

[JCFindley]

Unless you have an absolute goal of working in NYC I think OSU is a MUCH better option here. You like Ohio. You have ties in Ohio. OSU dominates the local market. 70k in debt gives you a LOT of options at law jobs. 200K means big law or bust for the most part..... 30ish% chance of that out of Fordham..... Everyone will work hard and be in the top 30..... I know I will. Seriously, I have never done anything where I wasn't in the top 10% (With the exception of my LSAT score) But then that is me and 90% of the other folks going to LS...... We will ALL work hard.

I see absolutely no down side to OSU unless you absolutely HAVE to live in NYC......

JC

[timbs4339]

You really don't know how difficult it is to compete against people who are all just as smart or smarter as you until you actually do it. I went from mediocre public high school and college to a top law school and it was like a different world. Fordham students are probably well within the top few percentiles of college students in the country in terms of intelligence. Furthermore, everyone is super-motivated. There is no relying on the dumb bottom 1/3 of the class or the people who spend their time in a puddle of alcohol- that cushion just doesn't exist.