Vanderbilt 80k Vs Cornell Sticker

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zaltman
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Vanderbilt 80k Vs Cornell Sticker

Postby zaltman » Wed May 09, 2012 8:03 pm

TLS, this is getting down to the wire and I am not sure what to do.

I am from Boston and want to land Big Law. Although I would prefer to work in Boston or New York when it is all said and done I am more concerned with landing a good, highpaying, job in corporate/business/tax law.

3 weeks ago I sent in my deposit to Vandy and was thrilled. I went to the ASW in March and absolutely loved it. I liked the students, the atmosphere, the laid back attitude the weather, the buildings, the faculty... everyone. I was, admittedly, wooed by the people speaking at the ASW. One thing that really struck out was the amount of weight given to clearkships by the faculty. I really want to land a clerkship before I begin working.

Anyways fastforward a couple of weeks and I got accepted into Cornell at what is likely sticker. After reviewing their placement numbers etc I was absolutely thrilled. I am in Ithaca now visiting and although the campus is stunning and the buildings are gorgeous I think they leave something to be desired and I'm just not getting the same feeling I was getting at Vandy. A couple of the classrooms I went in looked unwelcoming and didn't even have electricity provided. Also, although the campus is beautiful now, after going to school in MA I can't stop thinking about how bad its going to be come winter. I am really sick of the winter and do not want to keep fighting my way to and from classes especially in these stupid hills.

Finally, I'll admit that I'm a little nervous about the culture of Cornell. It looks and feels seeped in history and tradition and I've heard some people say that it is very cutthroat and brutal. I know wherever I go to law school is going to be very difficult and competitive but I really don't want to put myself in a bad situation.

I guess at the end of the day my question is as follows: Am I crazy to turn down Cornell even with its ~$100k extra COA given the lack of awards and increased COL in Ithaca?

Thanks.

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Mad Hatter
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Re: Vanderbilt 80k Vs Cornell Sticker

Postby Mad Hatter » Wed May 09, 2012 8:05 pm

Gut feeling + 100k = Vandy

CanadianWolf
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Re: Vanderbilt 80k Vs Cornell Sticker

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed May 09, 2012 8:10 pm

You're debating between two of the best law schools in the nation. Plus, one is offering you money & the other produces astonishing results albeit at a high price. In my opinion, you've already won the law school lottery. No wrong choice. Go with your gut.

SaintFond
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Re: Vanderbilt 80k Vs Cornell Sticker

Postby SaintFond » Wed May 09, 2012 8:16 pm

Probably Vandy, especially if you think you can do well at Vandy.

EDIT: Sorry, should probably elaborate. On the one hand, you don't want to end up below median at Cornell. On the other hand, to get BigLaw (for sure) from Vandy, you'll probably need to be top 20-25%. Depending upon your GPA/LSAT ratio, one of the schools might be a better choice.
Last edited by SaintFond on Wed May 09, 2012 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

zaltman
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Re: Vanderbilt 80k Vs Cornell Sticker

Postby zaltman » Wed May 09, 2012 8:18 pm

I really want to go with my gut and just go the school that i got the best vibes from. The thing that is holding me back is the following quote.

"Law School is not about the next three years but instead about the job opportunities for the rest of my life."

I am potentially giving up a school that not only has an unbelievable placement rate but practically owns the two job markets that I most strongly want to work in for a second school thats thousands of miles away, and although it's damn good, frankly has significantly worse placement power in these areas.

Although i know that I'm in a spot many people woud love to share its a tough fucking decision and it's tearing me up.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Vanderbilt 80k Vs Cornell Sticker

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed May 09, 2012 8:20 pm

Okay, then go with your head. But it's going to be cold.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Vanderbilt 80k Vs Cornell Sticker

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed May 09, 2012 8:21 pm

My point is that you are faced with two right options.

zaltman
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Re: Vanderbilt 80k Vs Cornell Sticker

Postby zaltman » Wed May 09, 2012 8:24 pm

Do you think Im going to have too much of a problem getting Big Law, or some good job in Boston/NY out of Vandy?

SaintFond
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Re: Vanderbilt 80k Vs Cornell Sticker

Postby SaintFond » Wed May 09, 2012 8:30 pm

zaltman wrote:Do you think Im going to have too much of a problem getting Big Law, or some good job in Boston/NY out of Vandy?


To have a realistic shot of BigLaw out of Vandy, you'll probably have to be in the top third of your class, unless you have connections or relevant WE or whatever.

I was just looking at some of their pre-ITE numbers. It looks like for a while there they were able to place about 40% of their class into NLJ250. Two years ago it was about 30%. Last year it was about 22%. The numbers don't exactly inspire confidence, though things could pick up a bit by the time you graduate.

If BigLaw is your number one option, you may want to roll the dice at Cornell unless you have strong reason to believe you could place well at Vandy. I don't know much about other jobs, though. Your odds of actually being UNEMPLOYED are pretty low, but you could end up in shitlaw or something.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Vanderbilt 80k Vs Cornell Sticker

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed May 09, 2012 8:31 pm

Forget Boston out of Vanderbilt. NYC is possible. Cornell, however, gives you both NYC & Boston. Did you apply to BC or BU ?

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FlanAl
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Re: Vanderbilt 80k Vs Cornell Sticker

Postby FlanAl » Wed May 09, 2012 8:34 pm

Talk to attorneys where you want to work and see what they have to say. Talk to people you know and trust. Also the schools will probably be happy to put you in touch with alumni. I'd say a lot of it depends on you as well. If you're looking for a new adventure then I think Vandy is a great choice, if you want to dig deeper roots in the northeast then cornell is probably better.

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Nelson
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Re: Vanderbilt 80k Vs Cornell Sticker

Postby Nelson » Wed May 09, 2012 8:35 pm

Boston or NYC? Go to Cornell of these two options. Did you negotiate your scholarship? GPA/LSAT?

zaltman
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Re: Vanderbilt 80k Vs Cornell Sticker

Postby zaltman » Wed May 09, 2012 8:47 pm

I was admitted to BU and BC with less aid than Vandy. I don't think either of those schools are worth passing up Cornell if I decide to bite the bullet and stay in New England.The company line that I was fed at ASW was that given the small class size/small number of people fighting for Boston jobs + my ties to Boston jobs there would be attainable. Do you disagree?

I think that if I am unable to get top third in my class at either of these schools Im going to be in a lot of trouble given the debt load. At least coming out of Vandy im going to only have ~150k including undergrad, as oppose to the 200+++ Cornell will carry.

zaltman
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Re: Vanderbilt 80k Vs Cornell Sticker

Postby zaltman » Wed May 09, 2012 8:53 pm

FlanAl: I think you have a great point about contacting alumni etc. I am also touring with a Dean tomorrow and will try to use that time as a way to get more info/a new perspective. Can you speak to the culture and amenities at Cornell? Do you like the people, the professors, the library or the classrooms?

I guess the point is that I was wowed by Vanderbilt and I wasnt feeling it today. A lot fo that could be contributed to the fact that it was ASW, and all the glitz and glamour that follow, in Nashville in Spring vs rainy finals season w/ depressed strung out kids in Ithaca.

de5igual
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Re: Vanderbilt 80k Vs Cornell Sticker

Postby de5igual » Wed May 09, 2012 8:53 pm

zaltman wrote:I was admitted to BU and BC with less aid than Vandy. I don't think either of those schools are worth passing up Cornell if I decide to bite the bullet and stay in New England.The company line that I was fed at ASW was that given the small class size/small number of people fighting for Boston jobs + my ties to Boston jobs there would be attainable. Do you disagree?

I think that if I am unable to get top third in my class at either of these schools Im going to be in a lot of trouble given the debt load. At least coming out of Vandy im going to only have ~150k including undergrad, as oppose to the 200+++ Cornell will carry.


Not necessarily. At Vandy, yeah...outside top 1/3 you'll definitely need to hustle a lot more to land a biglaw gig. At Cornell, considering their 2010 placement (which was absurdly high), I think you'll be pretty comfortable even below median as long as you're shooting for NYC.

rad lulz
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Re: Vanderbilt 80k Vs Cornell Sticker

Postby rad lulz » Wed May 09, 2012 8:59 pm

SaintFond wrote:I was just looking at some of their pre-ITE numbers. It looks like for a while there they were able to place about 40% of their class into NLJ250. Two years ago it was about 30%. Last year it was about 22%. The numbers don't exactly inspire confidence, though things could pick up a bit by the time you graduate.

It's not as terrible as just the NLJ makes it out to be little breh

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=183053

OP how much at BC/BU?

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KMaine
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Re: Vanderbilt 80k Vs Cornell Sticker

Postby KMaine » Wed May 09, 2012 9:01 pm

If you have ties to Boston, Boston should be almost as easy to get out of Cornell as is NYC (I am from Cornell and will be working in Boston). Vandy would make things significantly more difficult (though perhaps not impossible) for Boston. Good grades at Vandy will get you to NYC. OK grades will get you there from Cornell (student body intelligence about the same).

I like Cornell alot. But I am old. It is beautiful here, not as cold as people say, and I do like my classmates and profs. I get why some may prefer Vandy.

BTW, I would estimate Cornell will give you 2x better odds at getting Boston Biglaw than either BU/BC and much better chances at NYC.

zaltman
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Re: Vanderbilt 80k Vs Cornell Sticker

Postby zaltman » Wed May 09, 2012 9:05 pm

BC offered me 60k in straight need based grants and nothing from BU.

Honestly, Im not really considering either of those schools. If I stay in the Northeast it will be to attend Cornell.

Can you give me the cliffnotes of that thread? Besides the fact that Vandy is most definitely a better bet than BU BC etc and worse than T14?

zaltman
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Re: Vanderbilt 80k Vs Cornell Sticker

Postby zaltman » Wed May 09, 2012 9:08 pm

Does this become a slam dunk if Cornell turns around and offers me $60k?

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FlanAl
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Re: Vanderbilt 80k Vs Cornell Sticker

Postby FlanAl » Wed May 09, 2012 9:45 pm

you'll probably get substantial need based from Cornell, I would let that make the decision. Yeah, this was probably not the best time to visit. I don't know if this was because of your scheduling but its pretty classic that you're here a week too early. Guaranteed if you were here this time next week you'd have a different impression of the school.

I went to Vandy's ASW and had a great time. To get back to California I knew I'd probably need to be in the top half of the class. After that weekend I knew that there was no way I'd make top half, Nashville is way too much fun.

SaintFond
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Re: Vanderbilt 80k Vs Cornell Sticker

Postby SaintFond » Wed May 09, 2012 10:46 pm

zaltman wrote:Does this become a slam dunk if Cornell turns around and offers me $60k?


Cornell blindsided me by offering even more than that. I'd delay this as long as possible until you get a financial aid offer. You never know. Although I guess you might be able to estimate based upon your GPA/LSAT #s.

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Law Sauce
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Re: Vanderbilt 80k Vs Cornell Sticker

Postby Law Sauce » Wed May 09, 2012 10:59 pm

I wouldn't put too much into your visit. Its different when you are a student and you really don't have a good feel from the fake asw showing you get. I think Vandy is probably more fun, but I don't think that it outweighs the fact that you want the northeast. Id take Vandy with other goals (and your goals may change if you go to Vandy), but if you are pretty sure you want NYC/boston then I think that you need to take Cornell.

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Doorkeeper
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Re: Vanderbilt 80k Vs Cornell Sticker

Postby Doorkeeper » Thu May 10, 2012 9:37 am

If OP already wants to work biglaw, and has a preference for NYC and Boston, Cornell is the correct response here.

Did you inform Cornell about your 80k scholarship from Vandy?

SaintFond
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Re: Vanderbilt 80k Vs Cornell Sticker

Postby SaintFond » Thu May 10, 2012 11:13 am

rad lulz wrote:
SaintFond wrote:I was just looking at some of their pre-ITE numbers. It looks like for a while there they were able to place about 40% of their class into NLJ250. Two years ago it was about 30%. Last year it was about 22%. The numbers don't exactly inspire confidence, though things could pick up a bit by the time you graduate.

It's not as terrible as just the NLJ makes it out to be little breh

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=183053

OP how much at BC/BU?


Can I buy an xoxo account from you little breh?

LeninLunchbox
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Re: Vanderbilt 80k Vs Cornell Sticker

Postby LeninLunchbox » Thu May 10, 2012 8:10 pm

KMaine wrote:I like Cornell alot. But I am old. It is beautiful here, not as cold as people say.


My brother went to Cornell. I love Ithaca. But it is as cold as people say. And twice as snowy.




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