Wisconsin v. Retake Forum

[kubrickian]

Long time lurker here. So this is the situation.

LSAC GPA: 3.47 (UG GPA 3.
LSAT: cancel, 167
Submitted apps late December

Accepted: Wisconsin, Marquette, Fordham,
Waitlisted: USC, BU, MN
Rejected: Michigan, Northwestern, UT, Berkeley, UCLA, GW
(I was poorly informed on my first go around with applications; hence, the sporadic range of schools)

Wisconsin is the only one left on the table.

I'm gonna be honest, I'm chasing a girl. I've known my girlfriend for over two years but have only been dating her for about half a year. Lets just assume she is worth relocating for (she really is). We will be graduating this May and she will be going to TX for grad school for about 6 years. Given Wisconsin places poorly outside of the state and that TX is such an insular market, I am assuming it would be incredibly difficult for me to make the jump to TX from Wisconsin. It also seems like continuing the relationship for 3 years during law school would be ill advised due to the very large possibility of not being able to find a job afterward; we'd be better off going our own separate ways from the get-go.

I want biglaw or midlaw (if that really exists). Not sure what type.

The obvious course of action seems to be re-take and reapply to UT. However, my concern is GPA and LSAT performance. Is my GPA too low to justify a retake given I'll probably max out my LSAT around 170? I studied a decent amount for the LSAT last summer, averaging around 167 with 2 170's (probably took 10 PTs). I felt there was still room for improvement, but I don't think I can get in the mid or upper 170's.

Additionally, it is always possible that the relationship won't work out and I'll be stuck in TX. TX isn't horrible, but I would not choose to live there if not for my significant other. I'd prefer WI to TX. If my girlfriend didn't exist I would prefer to go to the west or east coast. I want to get out of WI.

I don't really want to wait another year (I'm in my mid 20's) and don't know what type of work I'll be able to do in the mean time (liberal arts degree).

Any suggestions? Sorry this post is disjointed, I'm in the midst of finals and am in a bit of a rush.

[minnbills]

If your goal is to get a job with a market or near-market paying firm, you should retake.

It also seems like you underperformed this cycle

[annet]

I'd prefer WI to TX. If my girlfriend didn't exist I would prefer to go to the west or east coast. I want to get out of WI.

I don't really want to wait another year (I'm in my mid 20's) and don't know what type of work I'll be able to do in the mean time (liberal arts degree).

Any suggestions? Sorry this post is disjointed, I'm in the midst of finals and am in a bit of a rush.

I'm a 0L but I've been spending a lot of time with employment stats prepping for the next cycle to start and I live/work in WI.

Personally I'm applying to/seriously considering WI but only because I would be happy to continue living and working here and would be fine with small-law/small-gov. WI has given Law School Transparency their NALP report and it's 60/40 WI vs. out of state but I think we have to assume a lot of those non-Midwest jobs are folks going back to their home market where they have ties. Nine people went to NY, 9 to CA, 10 to DC. Not good odds.

I'd sit out, move to TX with her, get a job at whatever university she'll be at (her department can probably help get you something entry-level), rock the LSAT, and be in a better position to know what you want in a year. Or just hang out in WI for a year, rock the LSAT, and still probably be in a better position for your goals. I don't think going to UW this year is the right answer for your goals.

[Tiago Splitter]

Move to Texas with her and retake. You'll have a much better idea of where things are going a year from now and probably some better school options.

With that GPA UT will be tough even if you slam the retake, but that's not a great bet for BigLaw anyway given the likely cost.

[kubrickian]

So are my chances at UT pretty low? I don't know if I would take the risk and go to any other Texas law school. If no UT, it would seem that a T14 would be the next best thing to get to TX, but if UT is a stretch I'd imagine T14 is just as bad.

Note: If my girlfriend didn't exist, I would probably just go to Wisconsin and let the chips fall where they may.

[Tiago Splitter]

So are my chances at UT pretty low? I don't know if I would take the risk and go to any other Texas law school. If no UT, it would seem that a T14 would be the next best thing to get to TX, but if UT is a stretch I'd imagine T14 is just as bad.

Note: If my girlfriend didn't exist, I would probably just go to Wisconsin and let the chips fall where they may.

Some T-14s are easier for splitters to get into than UT. UT is known for preferring high GPAs. But if you move there and establish residency things might get a bit easier.

[CanadianWolf]

Would you consider attending SMU or Houston if unsuccessful again at UT ?

[kubrickian]

I'm originally from Wisconsin, and it is a good school, but I believe it is unlikely to take you outside of the Midwest, especially if that is where your connections lie.

I'm not going to presume to know a lot about you and your girlfriend, but I will make one generic caution: be very, very careful about basing major life decisions upon youthful relationships. Most of them end, and it seems like even more of them end during law school. You've got to do what you've got to do, but think it over very carefully.

I realize how bad it sounds that I'd be willing to let such a relationship sway my decision, but I truly think it's worth the risk. Although I would prefer WI or one of the coasts, I wouldn't kill myself over ending up in TX.

Also, I have some family in Texas if that matters. Austin even.

Additionally, my girlfriend will not be living in TX next year. She is deferring to work abroad a year. This will give us a chance to see if the relationship can handle significant strain. If it doesn't work out, I still have some time to modify my Texas plans.

In reference to other Texas schools, I am weary about their placement and transportability, but would consider them if in a year I'm still very much set on continuing the relationship and have struck out at UT.

[minnbills]

She's going abroad for a year? I don't know your situation really. But, I don't see why you should have to modify your plans so significantly given this circumstance.

[kubrickian]

She's going abroad for a year? I don't know your situation really. But, I don't see why you should have to modify your plans so significantly given this circumstance.

A long distance relationship for a year is doable. A 6 year+ long distance relationship? Not so much. I'm just trying to evaluate my chances of getting to TX and continuing the relationship while also pursuing my goal of becoming a practicing attorney. I can possibly go to school at UT through a retake or try to get there from WI. As I understand it, getting there from WI would be a long shot. I'm just not sure if the chances of getting into UT offset the annoyances of a retake and the loss of time.

I'm not entirely sure why you think I don't have to modify my plans significantly. Do you think I can get to TX from WI or are you alluding to the possibility that the relationship will fail?

[guinness1547]

I'm originally from Wisconsin, and it is a good school, but I believe it is unlikely to take you outside of the Midwest, especially if that is where your connections lie.

I'm not going to presume to know a lot about you and your girlfriend, but I will make one generic caution: be very, very careful about basing major life decisions upon youthful relationships. Most of them end, and it seems like even more of them end during law school. You've got to do what you've got to do, but think it over very carefully.

I realize how bad it sounds that I'd be willing to let such a relationship sway my decision, but I truly think it's worth the risk. Although I would prefer WI or one of the coasts, I wouldn't kill myself over ending up in TX.

Also, I have some family in Texas if that matters. Austin even.

Additionally, my girlfriend will not be living in TX next year. She is deferring to work abroad a year. This will give us a chance to see if the relationship can handle significant strain. If it doesn't work out, I still have some time to modify my Texas plans.

In reference to other Texas schools, I am weary about their placement and transportability, but would consider them if in a year I'm still very much set on continuing the relationship and have struck out at UT.

I'd suggest retaking. On the other portion, if your relationship can survive a year with her being abroad then maybe she is worth moving to Texas for, but I suspect you won't be considering UT after that year.

[tyro]

If she's going to grad school in TX and you really want to stay together it seems like your best bet is to take a year off and move to TX. That's a personal decision though and no one on here can really tell you what to do. Going to UW with the hope of ending up in TX sounds like a bad idea though.

[miy]

Move to austin, study and enjoy the best city in TX for a year, retake and reapply.

Another option if you are looking to open up the TX market without pidgeonholing yourself is Tulane. They place well in Houston, and if you make some contacts in Austin, making it back during your summers and after graduation wouldn't be completely out of the mix. I'm probably ending up at Tulane next year, and my ultimate goal is to wind up back here in Austin. We'll see if it works though, haha.

[kubrickian]

Got in
MN off the waitlist. Does this change anything?

[Dick Dastardly]

I don't see Minnesota doing anything for you that Wisconsin doesn't do, unless you'd really like to live and work in the Twin Cities.

[JasonR]

The obvious course of action seems to be re-take and reapply to UT. However, my concern is GPA and LSAT performance. Is my GPA too low to justify a retake given I'll probably max out my LSAT around 170? I studied a decent amount for the LSAT last summer, averaging around 167 with 2 170's (probably took 10 PTs). I felt there was still room for improvement, but I don't think I can get in the mid or upper 170's.

If you only took 10 PTs, you shouldn't dismiss the possibility of going from 167 to something better than 170. What else did you do? Use the Bibles? Take a course?

So are my chances at UT pretty low? I don't know if I would take the risk and go to any other Texas law school. If no UT, it would seem that a T14 would be the next best thing to get to TX, but if UT is a stretch I'd imagine T14 is just as bad.

Not so. With a 170, assuming you can put together a good app in other respects, you'd have a very good shot at Cornell -- much better than at UT. Decent shot at Georgetown (much better with a 171). With a 171/172, things look pretty good at Northwestern, and with a 173, things look pretty nice for NYU. UT is just not very splitter-friendly.

[kubrickian]

If you only took 10 PTs, you shouldn't dismiss the possibility of going from 167 to something better than 170. What else did you do? Use the Bibles? Take a course?

I did a less intense version of the pithypike method. I used the LG bible, split up a bunch of the older PTs for LG drilling, and went through a good portion of the LR section of a huge prep book. I took no courses.

[nucky thompson]

Like other posters have said - I don't know anything about your relationship other than what you have written. With that being said, I'd like to offer my opinion.

Your girlfriend seems to have far too much leverage in this relationship. One sided relationships do not often work out. You and your g/f are both goin to grad/professional school. You're making plans with her in mind while it seems she made her plans with herself in mind as well. Further supporting the idea you're in a one sided relationship is that she is leaving you for a year to go abroad. She is making decisions based on what is good for her, while you are incorporatin her in these major life decisions.

Food for thought - If she is comfortable making her own plans despite your relationship, you should too. If the relationship is good, it will work out either way - but If you let her dictate your plans while you have no bearing on hers, I do not foresee it endin well.

[kubrickian]

Like other posters have said - I don't know anything about your relationship other than what you have written. With that being said, I'd like to offer my opinion.

Your girlfriend seems to have far too much leverage in this relationship. One sided relationships do not often work out. You and your g/f are both goin to grad/professional school. You're making plans with her in mind while it seems she made her plans with herself in mind as well. Further supporting the idea you're in a one sided relationship is that she is leaving you for a year to go abroad. She is making decisions based on what is good for her, while you are incorporatin her in these major life decisions.

Food for thought - If she is comfortable making her own plans despite your relationship, you should too. If the relationship is good, it will work out either way - but If you let her dictate your plans while you have no bearing on hers, I do not foresee it endin well.

You make a good point. It's true that the relationship is one sided with that respect. This is largely due to our young relationship and the niche area she is studying. We began to date right around the time we were preparing apps for our post-grad studies. At the time, we had no strong reasons to modify our plans to tailor the others. However, we happened to apply to one of the same schools and, as time passed, we both grew increasing eager to end up there. Unfortunately, we both struck out. She was left to chose between a prestigious program at a school she thoroughly enjoyed and a safety she'd rather not attend, both of which would leave us in different states. She was also subsequently accepted to a prestigious program that entails study abroad, to which she also applied during the early stages of our relationship. Both her abroad program and the school she will be attending will greatly increase her chances of a career in the niche area she is studying (the tech/science jobs she wants don't actually exist at this point in time). In contrast, I simply want to be a practicing attorney in a currently to-be-determined area of law. I have far more options open to me than she does with respect to our career goals.

That being said, I am still a little weary about her reluctance to modify her plans even though her decisions seemed to be emotionally difficult for her. On the other hand, I hadn't considered modifying my own until fairly recent. I've just come to the the realization that I'd much prefer a stellar relationship and eventual family, to a baller and super successful career (not sure I even have a shot at the latter given my position and, of course, I realize the former is not guaranteed). I'm willing to switch things up a little to keep the relationship going. However, I would never consider completely abandoning my plans.

Also, I'd like to apologize that this thread has devolved into a relationship discussion as opposed to one about law school.

[adx]

I might have a slightly different perspective on this than above posters because I am in a long-term relationship that has involved long-distance for the last few years. So I'm not as skeptical that a LDR is necessarily impossible/going to end badly. However, I think there are some things to bear in mind:

a) As you wrote above, your relationship isn't going to work in the long-term if you don't ultimately have plans to end up in the same geographic location within the foreseeable future. What are your gf's plans after grad school? Do they entail you following her to wherever she can get her very niche job? Are you willing to do that?

b) Is the reason you don't want to go to school outside of TX that you don't have confidence the relationship can survive 3 years long-distance? If it can't/you don't trust her enough, be careful.

c) You need to take care of your own stuff all the way down the line. Make sure you won't be unhappy with where you end up professionally if your relationship doesn't work out. Also, you could end up resenting her even if you stay together.

That said, it sounds like you should study for the LSAT for another year, retake and reapply. Apply to TX, but make sure you apply to a slew of other schools, T14s and safeties, across the country. Then, if by this time next year your relationship is still going strong, you can figure out if you want to go to a TX school. And if it isn't? You can go to the best school you get into, regardless of location.

TL;DR: Always have a Plan B.

[donzoli]

What is she going to school for and why doesn't she chase you? You seem to be an intelligent guy who will do well in life.