Power of Penn

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willwilliams1334
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Re: Power of Penn

Postby willwilliams1334 » Wed May 09, 2012 8:47 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:
willwilliams1334 wrote: Baseless rabble. Penn has the proof that it puts people in Biglaw, NYU doesn't so your USNWR rankings really dont impress anyone. Your idea that "they could have gotten it" reeks of speculation. NYU is a really fluffy school; if your into PI all that jazz, then by all means go there. Penn's network in NY easily rivals that of NYU; its name is much more respectable with regard to business, and that is a big part of the NYC culture. NYU is NOT strong in the financial/corporate stuff -- whether they self select out is irrelevant.
I will admit I lol'd at your Wharton comment, but in all seriousness, some lawyers have social skills. I would definitely find the time to go out and "network" as you so aptly put it, because Penn offers connections like this that a school like NYU doesn't -- you just have to go out and grab it. Penn has fantastic opportunities to take classes in the Wharton school as cross credits, which is another great way to network a little. I'm not saying this has an immediate tangible impact, but I think it could be a great thing if you make some friendships that, down the road, allow you to bring in some business for your firm, which is one of the main aspects of climbing the partner track.

Explain your basis for knowing anything you just said.


Ask me something more specific. Which claim do you have a problem with?

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: Power of Penn

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Wed May 09, 2012 8:53 pm

willwilliams1334 wrote: Ask me something more specific. Which claim do you have a problem with?

willwilliams1334 wrote:NYU is a really fluffy school
willwilliams1334 wrote:Penn's network in NY easily rivals that of NYU
willwilliams1334 wrote:its name is much more respectable with regard to business
willwilliams1334 wrote:NYU is NOT strong in the financial/corporate stuff
willwilliams1334 wrote:Penn offers connections like this that a school like NYU doesnt
willwilliams1334 wrote:you [will] make some friendships that, down the road, allow you to bring in some business for your firm, which is one of the main aspects of climbing the partner track.

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Davidbentley
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Re: Power of Penn

Postby Davidbentley » Wed May 09, 2012 8:56 pm

Elaborate flame to get notoriously NYU-hating TLS to white knight for NYU?

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willwilliams1334
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Re: Power of Penn

Postby willwilliams1334 » Wed May 09, 2012 9:01 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:
willwilliams1334 wrote: Ask me something more specific. Which claim do you have a problem with?

willwilliams1334 wrote:NYU is a really fluffy school
willwilliams1334 wrote:Penn's network in NY easily rivals that of NYU
willwilliams1334 wrote:its name is much more respectable with regard to business
willwilliams1334 wrote:NYU is NOT strong in the financial/corporate stuff
willwilliams1334 wrote:Penn offers connections like this that a school like NYU doesnt
willwilliams1334 wrote:you [will] make some friendships that, down the road, allow you to bring in some business for your firm, which is one of the main aspects of climbing the partner track.


Penn is focused on Biglaw. NYU is focused on PI. Penn is putting more people in Biglaw, thus there Biglaw network is growing larger than NYUs. The allusions to business, wharton, connects etc. are all individual things; you have to be able to just make that happen yourself, but Penn is a great jumping off point for Biglaw/private stuff. Don't know whats so controversial about what im saying.

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: Power of Penn

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Wed May 09, 2012 9:05 pm

willwilliams1334 wrote:
dixiecupdrinking wrote:
willwilliams1334 wrote: Ask me something more specific. Which claim do you have a problem with?

willwilliams1334 wrote:NYU is a really fluffy school
willwilliams1334 wrote:Penn's network in NY easily rivals that of NYU
willwilliams1334 wrote:its name is much more respectable with regard to business
willwilliams1334 wrote:NYU is NOT strong in the financial/corporate stuff
willwilliams1334 wrote:Penn offers connections like this that a school like NYU doesnt
willwilliams1334 wrote:you [will] make some friendships that, down the road, allow you to bring in some business for your firm, which is one of the main aspects of climbing the partner track.


Penn is focused on Biglaw. NYU is focused on PI. Penn is putting more people in Biglaw, thus there Biglaw network is growing larger than NYUs. The allusions to business, wharton, connects etc. are all individual things; you have to be able to just make that happen yourself, but Penn is a great jumping off point for Biglaw/private stuff. Don't know whats so controversial about what im saying.

There are probably twice as many NYU grads as Penn grads entering NYC Biglaw firms annually. For starters.

doomed123
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Re: Power of Penn

Postby doomed123 » Wed May 09, 2012 9:05 pm

Is Penn the new UChicago when it comes to TLS trolling?

I predict "teh Wharton connectionz!" will replace "RIGOR!" as the trolling buzzword of choice. And perhaps "fluffy" (wtf?) will take the place of "diluted" when it comes to insulting higher-ranked schools.

chasgoose
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Re: Power of Penn

Postby chasgoose » Wed May 09, 2012 9:21 pm

willwilliams1334 wrote:
dixiecupdrinking wrote:
willwilliams1334 wrote: Ask me something more specific. Which claim do you have a problem with?

willwilliams1334 wrote:NYU is a really fluffy school
willwilliams1334 wrote:Penn's network in NY easily rivals that of NYU
willwilliams1334 wrote:its name is much more respectable with regard to business
willwilliams1334 wrote:NYU is NOT strong in the financial/corporate stuff
willwilliams1334 wrote:Penn offers connections like this that a school like NYU doesnt
willwilliams1334 wrote:you [will] make some friendships that, down the road, allow you to bring in some business for your firm, which is one of the main aspects of climbing the partner track.


Penn is focused on Biglaw. NYU is focused on PI. Penn is putting more people in Biglaw, thus there Biglaw network is growing larger than NYUs. The allusions to business, wharton, connects etc. are all individual things; you have to be able to just make that happen yourself, but Penn is a great jumping off point for Biglaw/private stuff. Don't know whats so controversial about what im saying.


NYU still places more people into big law every year, especially in NYC, than Penn has in its entire class. Unless Penn increases in size, its never going to put more people in big law, in terms of raw numbers (and if Penn were to increase its size, I imagine its placement percentage would take a beating). NYU/CLS/HLS dominate big law in NYC and that's never going to change. If your argument is that Penn's big law network is larger, that is always going to lose. One good year (where NYU still put more people in big law) does not mean your network will overtake NYU's. Yes, Penn as a university is better than NYU, but going to Penn law isn't an instant ticket into the Penn undergrad/Wharton networks like you think it is. Alums from those schools are going to care a lot more about alums that went to those specific schools than those who went to a grad school they barely interacted with during their time at Penn. Finally, as far as networking goes, the tenuous connections Penn might help you make are still connections in Philadelphia, being in NYC affords NYU students a lot more networking opportunities throughout the year with people practicing big law. Even if that's solely due to proximity, its better to be in NYC for networking in finance/corporate world, than in Philadelphia...

NYU is still largely focused on Big Law, it just has a much stronger PI atmosphere than most other T14's except probably YS. A lot of PI people don't even do EIW, they don't go to PI because they struck out at EIW first. PI jobs (as in jobs that actually still pay you) are typically harder to get than Big Law jobs. It's not a place for people who can't hack Big Law to go with their tails between their legs. Also, if NYU were so terrible at finance/corporate stuff, why does it kill Penn every year at getting people jobs at the top Wall Street firms (23 people from NYU are working at DPW this summer and 2 from Penn are, Skadden: 8 NYU/1 Penn, etc.). Finally, NYU once again benefits from its proximity in being able to get practitioners to teach a lot of our more practical classes like M&A and what not. Those people aren't going to train down to Penn to do the same as frequently...

I'm not trying to say that Penn is bad for big law, and maybe even they placed a higher percentage of students in big law last year than NYU did, but to argue that Penn is going to overtake NYU in placement ability/rank/whatever and alumni network (in big law at least) is ridiculous. There is a reason most people, including those who want to do big law, choose NYU over Penn with equal money.

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willwilliams1334
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Re: Power of Penn

Postby willwilliams1334 » Wed May 09, 2012 9:41 pm

chasgoose wrote:
willwilliams1334 wrote:
dixiecupdrinking wrote:
willwilliams1334 wrote: Ask me something more specific. Which claim do you have a problem with?

willwilliams1334 wrote:NYU is a really fluffy school
willwilliams1334 wrote:Penn's network in NY easily rivals that of NYU
willwilliams1334 wrote:its name is much more respectable with regard to business
willwilliams1334 wrote:NYU is NOT strong in the financial/corporate stuff
willwilliams1334 wrote:Penn offers connections like this that a school like NYU doesnt
willwilliams1334 wrote:you [will] make some friendships that, down the road, allow you to bring in some business for your firm, which is one of the main aspects of climbing the partner track.


Penn is focused on Biglaw. NYU is focused on PI. Penn is putting more people in Biglaw, thus there Biglaw network is growing larger than NYUs. The allusions to business, wharton, connects etc. are all individual things; you have to be able to just make that happen yourself, but Penn is a great jumping off point for Biglaw/private stuff. Don't know whats so controversial about what im saying.


NYU still places more people into big law every year, especially in NYC, than Penn has in its entire class. Unless Penn increases in size, its never going to put more people in big law, in terms of raw numbers (and if Penn were to increase its size, I imagine its placement percentage would take a beating). NYU/CLS/HLS dominate big law in NYC and that's never going to change. If your argument is that Penn's big law network is larger, that is always going to lose. One good year (where NYU still put more people in big law) does not mean your network will overtake NYU's. Yes, Penn as a university is better than NYU, but going to Penn law isn't an instant ticket into the Penn undergrad/Wharton networks like you think it is. Alums from those schools are going to care a lot more about alums that went to those specific schools than those who went to a grad school they barely interacted with during their time at Penn. Finally, as far as networking goes, the tenuous connections Penn might help you make are still connections in Philadelphia, being in NYC affords NYU students a lot more networking opportunities throughout the year with people practicing big law. Even if that's solely due to proximity, its better to be in NYC for networking in finance/corporate world, than in Philadelphia...

NYU is still largely focused on Big Law, it just has a much stronger PI atmosphere than most other T14's except probably YS. A lot of PI people don't even do EIW, they don't go to PI because they struck out at EIW first. PI jobs (as in jobs that actually still pay you) are typically harder to get than Big Law jobs. It's not a place for people who can't hack Big Law to go with their tails between their legs. Also, if NYU were so terrible at finance/corporate stuff, why does it kill Penn every year at getting people jobs at the top Wall Street firms (23 people from NYU are working at DPW this summer and 2 from Penn are, Skadden: 8 NYU/1 Penn, etc.). Finally, NYU once again benefits from its proximity in being able to get practitioners to teach a lot of our more practical classes like M&A and what not. Those people aren't going to train down to Penn to do the same as frequently...

I'm not trying to say that Penn is bad for big law, and maybe even they placed a higher percentage of students in big law last year than NYU did, but to argue that Penn is going to overtake NYU in placement ability/rank/whatever and alumni network (in big law at least) is ridiculous. There is a reason most people, including those who want to do big law, choose NYU over Penn with equal money.


You can go on and on about how NYU has a bigger class size and places better in V10, but a part of many of the things you say are indeed class size; relatively, Penn did better in NYC this year, and that's quite a statement considering many of the things you've said about NYU power in NYC. NYU's focus has and continues to move away from private sector, regardless of its past history and outliers who go V10. Penn is gaining ground in NYC; I'm trying to explain some of the things that I feel may be responsible for this. It's focus on private industry, proximity to NYC, ivy league name, prestige and joint degree focus are some of the things that can account for this. And when I say fluff, I'm talking about things like academia, gov, pi, clerkship: Things that are great for people who are interested in it, but ultimately defer to the real reason people go to law school : Big law, aka money.

chasgoose
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Re: Power of Penn

Postby chasgoose » Wed May 09, 2012 9:55 pm

willwilliams1334 wrote:You can go on and on about how NYU has a bigger class size and places better in V10, but a part of many of the things you say are indeed class size; relatively, Penn did better in NYC this year, and that's quite a statement considering many of the things you've said about NYU power in NYC. NYU's focus has and continues to move away from private sector, regardless of its past history and outliers who go V10. Penn is gaining ground in NYC; I'm trying to explain some of the things that I feel may be responsible for this. It's focus on private industry, proximity to NYC, ivy league name, prestige and joint degree focus are some of the things that can account for this. And when I say fluff, I'm talking about things like academia, gov, pi, clerkship: Things that are great for people who are interested in it, but ultimately defer to the real reason people go to law school : Big law, aka money.


So would you describe Penn as superior to HYS and recommend someone attend Penn instead of them for equal money? All of those schools have lower big law placement numbers and a lot more "fluff" placement. Academia/clerkships/gov jobs are all much much harder to get than big law jobs, I would hardly call them fluff.

Also, the size difference matters. NYU can still put more people in big law every year than Penn could if they were the same size. The percentages are useful when determining the risk of attending a school, but do you think that Penn would still have better placement numbers if they were the same size as NYU? I agree, that the chances of flaming out at NYU are probably a bit higher based on sheer numbers alone, but that doesn't mean that law firms would rather hire a Penn grad than an NYU one, all other things being equal.

A few other points...

Penn's proximity to NYC as a + factor over NYU?

Ivy League is a football league, only really matters as a thing for undergrad. Ivy undergrad + NYU> non-Ivy + Penn. You would also be surprised how relatively few people know that Penn is an Ivy League school anyways.

Mal Reynolds
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Re: Power of Penn

Postby Mal Reynolds » Wed May 09, 2012 9:58 pm

You people are cruising for a Rayiner smackdown. I hope it comes soon.

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kwais
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Re: Power of Penn

Postby kwais » Wed May 09, 2012 10:01 pm

willwilliams1334 wrote: You can go on and on about how NYU has a bigger class size and places better in V10, but a part of many of the things you say are indeed class size; relatively, Penn did better in NYC this year, and that's quite a statement considering many of the things you've said about NYU power in NYC. NYU's focus has and continues to move away from private sector, regardless of its past history and outliers who go V10. Penn is gaining ground in NYC; I'm trying to explain some of the things that I feel may be responsible for this. It's focus on private industry, proximity to NYC, ivy league name, prestige and joint degree focus are some of the things that can account for this. And when I say fluff, I'm talking about things like academia, gov, pi, clerkship: Things that are great for people who are interested in it, but ultimately defer to the real reason people go to law school : Big law, aka money.


This is just not accurate man. NYU V10 "outliers"? You started this thread with a (semi)valid question, to which you got valid responses. Now you are frothing and making shit up. Penn's network in NYC does not compete with NYU's and will not for a good while if ever. So stop making Carlton look bad.

chasgoose
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Re: Power of Penn

Postby chasgoose » Wed May 09, 2012 10:02 pm

Mal Reynolds wrote:You people are cruising for a Rayiner smackdown. I hope it comes soon.


I'm excited...and also I'll stop. I realize I have let myself get out of hand. If only Property weren't so tedious!

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willwilliams1334
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Re: Power of Penn

Postby willwilliams1334 » Wed May 09, 2012 11:46 pm

I'm pointing out an upward trend in Penn NYC placement, and showing why this may be the case. This may not even be at the expense of NYU or any school in CCN, but my original point was that this school is out placing NYU in NYC biglaw. M,V, and B have no chance of accomplishing a feat like this. Penn is surging and the fact that it is trending toward placing better in NYC than NYU just speaks for itself. As entrenched as NYU is in NY, its hold on Biglaw has never been like Columbia's.

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beachbum
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Re: Power of Penn

Postby beachbum » Wed May 09, 2012 11:52 pm

This thread is sorely lacking in Duke trolls.

admisionquestion
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Re: Power of Penn

Postby admisionquestion » Wed May 09, 2012 11:55 pm

I thought i already made this clear. GDK. DONE DEAL. EVERYONE ELSE STFU.

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Borg
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Re: Power of Penn

Postby Borg » Thu May 10, 2012 12:27 am

admisionquestion wrote:Wharton certificate is not nonsense. Ppl need to stop the nonsense


Wharton certificate is total fucking nonsense. I love how Penn Law kids have to rely on Wharton to try to get any respect. If you want to go into business or finance get an MBA at Wharton, not a "business and public policy certificate" that everyone will think is meaningless.

willwilliams1334 wrote: You can go on and on about how NYU has a bigger class size and places better in V10, but a part of many of the things you say are indeed class size; relatively, Penn did better in NYC this year, and that's quite a statement considering many of the things you've said about NYU power in NYC. NYU's focus has and continues to move away from private sector, regardless of its past history and outliers who go V10. Penn is gaining ground in NYC; I'm trying to explain some of the things that I feel may be responsible for this. It's focus on private industry, proximity to NYC, ivy league name, prestige and joint degree focus are some of the things that can account for this. And when I say fluff, I'm talking about things like academia, gov, pi, clerkship: Things that are great for people who are interested in it, but ultimately defer to the real reason people go to law school : Big law, aka money.


Will Williams is dumb. He will feel sad next year when Penn is 8th.
Last edited by Borg on Thu May 10, 2012 12:38 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Sherwood2014
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Re: Power of Penn

Postby Sherwood2014 » Thu May 10, 2012 12:34 am

HeavenWood wrote: . . .but since MVP is an inherently better acronym, I'll just stick with that.

Taking a while to get use to YSH. . .CCN locked for a while. . . not sure what acronym fits best PBV or PVB. . . MVP is soooo twenty seconds ago. :)

Napt
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Re: Power of Penn

Postby Napt » Thu May 10, 2012 12:35 am

Penn kids: How much does it pain you that you have explain to 90% of people irl that you go to the IVY LEAGUE UNIVERSITY of Pennsylvania, not Penn State? (serious q)

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sundance95
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Re: Power of Penn

Postby sundance95 » Thu May 10, 2012 12:41 am

willwilliams1334 wrote:I'm pointing out an upward trend in Penn NYC placement, and showing why this may be the case. This may not even be at the expense of NYU or any school in CCN, but my original point was that this school is out placing NYU in NYC biglaw. M,V, and B have no chance of accomplishing a feat like this. Penn is surging and the fact that it is trending toward placing better in NYC than NYU just speaks for itself. As entrenched as NYU is in NY, its hold on Biglaw has never been like Columbia's.

--ImageRemoved--

admisionquestion
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Re: Power of Penn

Postby admisionquestion » Thu May 10, 2012 12:43 am

Napt wrote:Penn kids: How much does it pain you that you have explain to 90% of people irl that you go to the IVY LEAGUE UNIVERSITY of Pennsylvania, not Penn State? (serious q)


I for one live it. I love that ppl uninterested I'm academic reputation don't start making assumptions about me as soon as I mention what school I attend.

But I still get the same or better placement as NYU etc.

Napt
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Re: Power of Penn

Postby Napt » Thu May 10, 2012 12:47 am

admisionquestion wrote:
Napt wrote:Penn kids: How much does it pain you that you have explain to 90% of people irl that you go to the IVY LEAGUE UNIVERSITY of Pennsylvania, not Penn State? (serious q)


I for one live it. I love that ppl uninterested I'm academic reputation don't start making assumptions about me as soon as I mention what school I attend.

But I still get the same or better placement as NYU etc.

wtf? you aren't ir8 that Penn has zero prestige and people think you go to a Big Ten school known for its football program?

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sundance95
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Re: Power of Penn

Postby sundance95 » Thu May 10, 2012 12:50 am

admisionquestion wrote:I love that ppl uninterested I'm academic reputation don't start making assumptions about me as soon as I mention what school I attend.

I've read this sentence several times and still can't figure out wtf u are trying to say.

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Sherwood2014
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Re: Power of Penn

Postby Sherwood2014 » Thu May 10, 2012 12:51 am

Napt wrote:Penn kids: How much does it pain you that you have explain to 90% of people irl that you go to the IVY LEAGUE UNIVERSITY of Pennsylvania, not Penn State? (serious q)

Love the question since it is a wonderful way to identify the great unwashed (you know, the Napts of the world).

I was in an interview and the interviewer thought I went to Penn State, at the very end of the interview she realized her mistake, suddenly she perked up and the interview continued for another 20 minutes. But no, I never forgave her and would not answer her emails.

Napt
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Re: Power of Penn

Postby Napt » Thu May 10, 2012 12:55 am

Sherwood2014 wrote:
Napt wrote:Penn kids: How much does it pain you that you have explain to 90% of people irl that you go to the IVY LEAGUE UNIVERSITY of Pennsylvania, not Penn State? (serious q)

Love the question since it is a wonderful way to identify the great unwashed (you know, the Napts of the world).

I was in an interview and the interviewer thought I went to Penn State, at the very end of the interview she realized her mistake, suddenly she perked up and the interview continued for another 20 minutes. But no, I never forgave her and would not answer her emails.

sorry you didn't get the job bro

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sundance95
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Re: Power of Penn

Postby sundance95 » Thu May 10, 2012 12:57 am

Sherwood2014 wrote:
Napt wrote:Penn kids: How much does it pain you that you have explain to 90% of people irl that you go to the IVY LEAGUE UNIVERSITY of Pennsylvania, not Penn State? (serious q)

Love the question since it is a wonderful way to identify the great unwashed (you know, the Napts of the world).

I was in an interview and the interviewer thought I went to Penn State, at the very end of the interview she realized her mistake, suddenly she perked up and the interview continued for another 20 minutes. But no, I never forgave her and would not answer her emails.

alpha. u showed her bro, she really needed u to cover those per diem hearings & now whos she got? fucking no one, thats who.




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