Vanderbilt Law vs. Fordham University

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rad lulz
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Re: Vanderbilt Law vs. Fordham University

Postby rad lulz » Thu May 10, 2012 12:37 am

thelawyler wrote:If we consider jobs that we prefer to have to be ones that are JD-required...

20% chance at a JD preferred job (Fordham) vs a 6% of that (Vandy).
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Also note that the short-term jobs is smaller. So less JD-Preferred and less short time out of Vandy. And there's 4% "Professional" and only 1% "Professional" at Vandy, which basically makes the unemployment numbers the same as most of those Professional jobs are likely not McKinsey.

Being below median at Vandy seems to give you better odds of not completely making your JD useless. Not ideal at both, but risk of it being worse at Fordham are statistically much higher. Add in the fact that the "good jobs" seem to reach about 15% deeper into Vandy, and you've created reason on both ends to choose Vandy for the same price.

Yeah I'd go to Vandy for these reasons.

Bigsby
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Re: Vanderbilt Law vs. Fordham University

Postby Bigsby » Thu May 10, 2012 11:59 am

Hey guys,

Sorry, I don't seem to follow some details. "And there's 4% "Professional" and only 1% "Professional" at Vandy, which basically makes the unemployment numbers the same as most of those Professional jobs are likely not McKinsey. "

What do you mean by this line? Also I don't understand the salary portion of these pages. It seems that at Fordham, a larger amount of people went to make more money than Vandy students? 194 vs 67? and they most likely all placed in NYC? This part needs a little translation for me :-/

Thanks!

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thelawyler
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Re: Vanderbilt Law vs. Fordham University

Postby thelawyler » Thu May 10, 2012 1:57 pm

The amount of people does not matter. What matters is what percentage of people. Vandy is a small school.

What i meant with the professional statement is that vandy for that year reports about 8% unemployment, but only reports 1% working as professionals. So lets add that up and say its 9% because professional probably means a crap job most of the time. Fordham has a lower unemployment of 6% but has professional of 4%. The sum of that is 10%.

My point was simply that Vandys unemployment numbers arent worse than Fordhams, its "bad jobs" are still prob a bit better than Fordhams bad jobs, and you have a higher chance at a good job. For the same price, itd say its a good decision.

Typed from phone so sorry if my percentages are a bit off

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dingbat
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Re: Vanderbilt Law vs. Fordham University

Postby dingbat » Thu May 10, 2012 3:23 pm

Just out of curiosity, what percentage at Vandy are in school- funded positions?
At Fordham it's about 14%

It's open to debate whether this is a good thing or a bad thing (I've seen good arguments in favor, but most people consider it a bad thing)
If its about the same, so be it, but if it's vastly different it's another something to keep in mind

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bigeast03
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Re: Vanderbilt Law vs. Fordham University

Postby bigeast03 » Thu May 10, 2012 3:31 pm

dingbat wrote:Just out of curiosity, what percentage at Vandy are in school- funded positions?
At Fordham it's about 14%

It's open to debate whether this is a good thing or a bad thing (I've seen good arguments in favor, but most people consider it a bad thing)
If its about the same, so be it, but if it's vastly different it's another something to keep in mind


In 2010, Vanderbilt report 43 students taking school-funded positions. After 9 months, about half of those (21) reported permanent employment. I don't know the exact percentage, but assuming a class of 200, that would be a little less than a quarter at graduation.

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dingbat
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Re: Vanderbilt Law vs. Fordham University

Postby dingbat » Thu May 10, 2012 3:46 pm

bigeast03 wrote:
dingbat wrote:Just out of curiosity, what percentage at Vandy are in school- funded positions?
At Fordham it's about 14%

It's open to debate whether this is a good thing or a bad thing (I've seen good arguments in favor, but most people consider it a bad thing)
If its about the same, so be it, but if it's vastly different it's another something to keep in mind


In 2010, Vanderbilt report 43 students taking school-funded positions. After 9 months, about half of those (21) reported permanent employment. I don't know the exact percentage, but assuming a class of 200, that would be a little less than a quarter at graduation.

In lieu of real numbers, let's consider that a wash
So basically, the real bottom is more or less the same size
The top of the class (biglaw/clerk) is somewhat bigger at Vandy, but Fordham presumably places better in NY(for those not going into biglaw)

I think that kinda sums it up in a nutshell: if your biggest priority is biglaw, go to Vandy. If your biggest priority is NY, go to Fordham.
The difference in biglaw placement for Vandy is not significant, while its odds of getting you a NY job if you screw up OCI is not that different either

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thelawyler
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Re: Vanderbilt Law vs. Fordham University

Postby thelawyler » Thu May 10, 2012 3:53 pm

As per my previous posts, the bottom third is clearly not the same at both schools.

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SilverE2
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Re: Vanderbilt Law vs. Fordham University

Postby SilverE2 » Thu May 10, 2012 3:56 pm

bigeast03 wrote:
dingbat wrote:Just out of curiosity, what percentage at Vandy are in school- funded positions?
At Fordham it's about 14%

It's open to debate whether this is a good thing or a bad thing (I've seen good arguments in favor, but most people consider it a bad thing)
If its about the same, so be it, but if it's vastly different it's another something to keep in mind


In 2010, Vanderbilt report 43 students taking school-funded positions. After 9 months, about half of those (21) reported permanent employment. I don't know the exact percentage, but assuming a class of 200, that would be a little less than a quarter at graduation.


Where did you get these numbers? Here: http://law.vanderbilt.edu/employers-cs/ ... index.aspx, Vandy reports 15.3% of its 189 employed have school funded positions. That's 29.4 students.

*edit*

JK, the stats I posted are at 9 months. I'll leave the info up anyway.

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dingbat
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Re: Vanderbilt Law vs. Fordham University

Postby dingbat » Thu May 10, 2012 4:04 pm

thelawyler wrote:As per my previous posts, the bottom third is clearly not the same at both schools.

Whoops.
Let's call bottom 25% a tie (10 unemployment, 15 school funded)
So the issue is really between median and bottom 25th that there's a sharp difference.
Of those people, 1/5 at Vandy and 4/5 at Fordham are doing JD preferred work. I don't really know much about that category, and while I could speculate (i could see there being more demand/pay/opportunity for such in NY) let's just say you should really do your utmost to not be below median (but I'll concede the point to Vandy for sake of argument and lack of real info)

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bigeast03
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Re: Vanderbilt Law vs. Fordham University

Postby bigeast03 » Thu May 10, 2012 4:06 pm

SilverE2 wrote:
bigeast03 wrote:
dingbat wrote:Just out of curiosity, what percentage at Vandy are in school- funded positions?
At Fordham it's about 14%

It's open to debate whether this is a good thing or a bad thing (I've seen good arguments in favor, but most people consider it a bad thing)
If its about the same, so be it, but if it's vastly different it's another something to keep in mind


In 2010, Vanderbilt report 43 students taking school-funded positions. After 9 months, about half of those (21) reported permanent employment. I don't know the exact percentage, but assuming a class of 200, that would be a little less than a quarter at graduation.


Where did you get these numbers? Here: http://law.vanderbilt.edu/employers-cs/ ... index.aspx, Vandy reports 15.3% of its 189 employed have school funded positions. That's 29.4 students.

*edit*

JK, the stats I posted are at 9 months. I'll leave the info up anyway.


Yeah, I posted the stats from the career services booklet they gave out. Also, the 15.60% of the 189 is from 2011.

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dingbat
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Re: Vanderbilt Law vs. Fordham University

Postby dingbat » Thu May 10, 2012 4:07 pm

On a separate note, my sister (not a JD) ended up in a JD preferred job in NY for a number of years.
A) it was intellectually challenging
B) it was rewarding (and the pay was what a non-biglaw JD would accept)
C) it had a certain amount of prestige, and it had opportunities for advancement

As much as people crap on the category, there are decent jobs like that out there

MrAnon
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Re: Vanderbilt Law vs. Fordham University

Postby MrAnon » Thu May 10, 2012 4:23 pm

Depends on where you are right now. One should never ever move a significant distance for a school the caliber of Fordham, or just because they want to work in NYC.

If you do well enough at Vanderbilt you can go to NYC. If you don't do well enough at Vanderbilt then thank your lucky stars you never attended Fordham because you would have done horribly there too and the rest of your life would have been a struggle, stuck in NYC with a degree that won't get you very far.

answer23
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Re: Vanderbilt Law vs. Fordham University

Postby answer23 » Fri May 11, 2012 2:59 pm

dingbat wrote:On a separate note, my sister (not a JD) ended up in a JD preferred job in NY for a number of years.
A) it was intellectually challenging
B) it was rewarding (and the pay was what a non-biglaw JD would accept)
C) it had a certain amount of prestige, and it had opportunities for advancement

As much as people crap on the category, there are decent jobs like that out there


Would you mind sharing what type of job that is. My understanding is that some JD Preferred jobs are jobs that someone with a BA in criminal justice with 5 years experience or an MPA-inspector general or MA in Criminal Justice, Criminology or related field can do. Why go to law school and spend all that money to be an Investigator or inspector general when you could have done that at half the price half the time with an MA in criminal justice? My impression is that a JD prefered job is not what most people went to law school for.

MrAnon
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Re: Vanderbilt Law vs. Fordham University

Postby MrAnon » Fri May 11, 2012 3:59 pm

answer23 wrote:
dingbat wrote:On a separate note, my sister (not a JD) ended up in a JD preferred job in NY for a number of years.
A) it was intellectually challenging
B) it was rewarding (and the pay was what a non-biglaw JD would accept)
C) it had a certain amount of prestige, and it had opportunities for advancement

As much as people crap on the category, there are decent jobs like that out there


Would you mind sharing what type of job that is. My understanding is that some JD Preferred jobs are jobs that someone with a BA in criminal justice with 5 years experience or an MPA-inspector general or MA in Criminal Justice, Criminology or related field can do. Why go to law school and spend all that money to be an Investigator or inspector general when you could have done that at half the price half the time with an MA in criminal justice? My impression is that a JD prefered job is not what most people went to law school for.


Its not. What makes it even worse is that his sister who didn't even go to law school got the job, and bested out all unemployed law grads for it. That should help you put in perspective what how employers who advertise "JD preferred" jobs really feel about JDs.




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