Deferral at Mich. vs. NU vs. Duke UPDATED (14k a yr)

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jrthor10
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Deferral at Mich. vs. NU vs. Duke UPDATED (14k a yr)

Postby jrthor10 » Fri May 04, 2012 10:14 am

So after not liking any of my options for a few months, now I like both of them. I e-mailed Mich on wed for a deferral to next year's class and I got one on Thursday morning. On Thurs. evening, I got an acceptance at NU.

Now technically I have until I sign Mich's deferral contract to change my mind, but I feel bound to Mich already. In addition, I have been in a long distance relationship for two years, and if I stay where I am for another year, my gf is moving here. Otherwise, we will continue to be long distance

NU says they are out of $$ and I think I have a shot at $$ at Mich., but I won't know until after I have to commit to them. NU was my top choice, and while I would like to start right away, my gf and the higher COA of attendance is pushing me to stick with my original decision to defer at Mich.

Thoughts?

**Update: I got into Duke with 14k a year. I think it is now down to Duke and Michigan. I won't know about any potential $$ at Michigan until I send in my deferral (anecdotally seems like I am looking at 10-15k a year). Speaking of which, does anyone think I am in dangerous territory with regards to my deferral? I was asked to withdrawal from other law schools once I submitted my deferral. I was given a verbal acceptance, and I got into NU and Duke before I even received the written contract in the mail. Haven't filled it out yet. Career goals are Biglaw in probably Chicago, although I would be open to NY and DC. Would I be at any disadvantage by waiting a year and continuing my current job as a teacher (graduating at 28 vs. 29)? I liked AA, but haven't been able to visit Duke yet. Friends there say it is awesome. Anything else I should be considering??
Last edited by jrthor10 on Tue May 08, 2012 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Deferral at Mich. vs. NU

Postby CanadianWolf » Fri May 04, 2012 10:19 am

Congratulations ! With a 171/3.4, you've done well.

Since Northwestern has no scholarship money available to you, the one year deferral from Michigan offers an opportunity to retake the LSAT in order to improve your scholarship chances at Michigan.

Regarding job placement, Northwestern is the better option, however.
Last edited by CanadianWolf on Fri May 04, 2012 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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franklyscarlet
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Re: Deferral at Mich. vs. NU

Postby franklyscarlet » Fri May 04, 2012 10:19 am

Have you asked NU about a deferral?

ETA: I'm also wondering if deferring at NU would open up some $ for next year. Also, I'm biased.

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descartesb4thehorse
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Re: Deferral at Mich. vs. NU

Postby descartesb4thehorse » Fri May 04, 2012 10:24 am

CanadianWolf wrote:Congratulations ! With a 171/3.4, you've done well.

Since Northwestern has no scholarship money available to you, the one year deferral from Michigan offers an opportunity to retake the LSAT in order to improve your scholarship chances at Michigan.

Regarding job placement, Northwestern is the better option, however.

Lol. Actually, that's par for the course with these numbers.

FMPOV, having your same numbers and doing the deferral, I would say it's highly likely you will get 30k from Michigan, and if they have another application year like this one that will go up to 45. I doubt increasing your LSAT will get you to the next scholarship stage (54) with that GPA. So retaking shouldn't be worrying you unless you don't defer anywhere and decide to shoot for CCN.

Scarlet, NU also admitted me late with these same stats and wouldn't budge on the money. If you (OP) do decide on NU, which is completely reasonable but I didn't feel up to swallowing the COL in the loop for 2 people and a cat, expect it will be at sticker. I also asked about scholarships with deferring and they said no to that, too.

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franklyscarlet
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Re: Deferral at Mich. vs. NU

Postby franklyscarlet » Fri May 04, 2012 10:27 am

descartesb4thehorse wrote:



Scarlet, NU also admitted me late with these same stats and wouldn't budge on the money. If you do decide on NU, which is completely reasonable but I didn't feel up to swallowing the COL in the loop for 2 people and a cat, expect it will be at sticker. I also asked about scholarships with deferring and they said no to that, too.


Ah, ok. I was thinking of Rink, who got a deferral and got $ this year (but found out on the same timeline as those of us who were admitted this year). Although, that's far from guaranteed. I'm admittedly an NU troll, especially for people i like :) But Jthor, I don't think there's a bad choice here.

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descartesb4thehorse
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Re: Deferral at Mich. vs. NU

Postby descartesb4thehorse » Fri May 04, 2012 10:37 am

franklyscarlet wrote:
descartesb4thehorse wrote:Scarlet, NU also admitted me late with these same stats and wouldn't budge on the money. If you do decide on NU, which is completely reasonable but I didn't feel up to swallowing the COL in the loop for 2 people and a cat, expect it will be at sticker. I also asked about scholarships with deferring and they said no to that, too.


Ah, ok. I was thinking of Rink, who got a deferral and got $ this year (but found out on the same timeline as those of us who were admitted this year). Although, that's far from guaranteed. I'm admittedly an NU troll, especially for people i like :) But Jthor, I don't think there's a bad choice here.

It's just funny to me because these were my exact same options last year. I also had to deal with having lived in Chicago and generally desiring ending up there again, and if the law school were in Evanston, I think I would have gone for it, in all honesty. I just blanched at the thought of so much debt for all of us by living in downtown Chicago for 3 years, even with the placement edge NU has for Mich grads in Chi. I also worried that NU's strong placement has to do with students who have a really strong work experience background, and since mine was not on the same level, if I'd be putting myself at a disadvantage. There are a lot of pros and cons here but for my personal situation Mich made more sense. Sounds to me like it might for OP as well.

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Re: Deferral at Mich. vs. NU

Postby CanadianWolf » Fri May 04, 2012 10:42 am

@descartesB4thehorse: lawschoolnumbers.com shows otherwise. Only one (1/9) of nine applicants with a 171 LSAT & below 3.5 GPA was accepted to Michigan. One person with a high LSAT & a 3.45 was offered a $54,000 scholarship.

Northwestern admitted about 50% with OP's numbers according to lawschoolnumbers.com

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descartesb4thehorse
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Re: Deferral at Mich. vs. NU

Postby descartesb4thehorse » Fri May 04, 2012 10:49 am

CanadianWolf wrote:@descartesB4thehorse: lawschoolnumbers.com shows otherwise. Only one (1/9) of nine applicants with a 171 LSAT & below 3.5 GPA was accepted to Michigan. One person with a high LSAT & a 3.45 was offered a $54,000 scholarship.

Northwestern admitted about 50% with OP's numbers according to lawschoolnumbers.com

Yea, they were all waitlisted, and I'm sure if any of those had asked to be deferred, they would have been offered it like OP and I, who were both originally waitlisted.

I wasn't 100% about that GPA and the 54k, but the person who got the 54k has a 179 and who knows what other softs. Getting an extra couple of points on the LSAT for a scholly bump is one thing, getting 8 extra points is another entirely and even rigorous studying cannot even come close to guaranteeing someone that. I will say that I don't think in their typical equation that a 173 would change the amount for OP, anything over that I cannot say with certainty.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Deferral at Mich. vs. NU

Postby CanadianWolf » Fri May 04, 2012 10:56 am

@descartesB4thehorse: LOL Wrong again. :D 3 of the 9 were rejected. And it was a 178, not 179. Also, apps are expected to decline further next year. Why not cut the BS & just admit that you were wrong ?

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jrthor10
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Re: Deferral at Mich. vs. NU

Postby jrthor10 » Fri May 04, 2012 11:02 am

Orrrrr we can go back to helping me make my decision! :D

CanadianWolf
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Re: Deferral at Mich. vs. NU

Postby CanadianWolf » Fri May 04, 2012 11:04 am

Well correct info. should help guide your decision.

Regardless, deferral is the correct answer. Will NU offer a deferral which may allow you to receive scholarship money ?
Last edited by CanadianWolf on Fri May 04, 2012 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Deferral at Mich. vs. NU

Postby Ruxin1 » Fri May 04, 2012 11:07 am

jrthor10 wrote:Orrrrr we can go back to helping me make my decision! :D


I'd say if you are Chicago or bust go Northwestern, and if open to other markets, take Michigan with most likely 10k/year.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Deferral at Mich. vs. NU

Postby CanadianWolf » Fri May 04, 2012 11:09 am

OP: Are you "Chicago or bust" ?

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descartesb4thehorse
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Re: Deferral at Mich. vs. NU

Postby descartesb4thehorse » Fri May 04, 2012 11:13 am

Ruxin1 wrote:
jrthor10 wrote:Orrrrr we can go back to helping me make my decision! :D


I'd say if you are Chicago or bust go Northwestern, and if open to other markets, take Michigan with most likely 10k/year.

Except if he's Chicago or bust with ties already, Mich with a scholly (which is likely to be 15k/year if apps go down even more, as canadianwolf asserted loudly) is probably a better bet, since the biglaw prospects don't drop off that much but the debt definitely does.

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Re: Deferral at Mich. vs. NU

Postby CanadianWolf » Fri May 04, 2012 11:18 am

:roll:

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Ruxin1
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Re: Deferral at Mich. vs. NU

Postby Ruxin1 » Fri May 04, 2012 11:22 am

descartesb4thehorse wrote:
Ruxin1 wrote:
jrthor10 wrote:Orrrrr we can go back to helping me make my decision! :D


I'd say if you are Chicago or bust go Northwestern, and if open to other markets, take Michigan with most likely 10k/year.

Except if he's Chicago or bust with ties already, Mich with a scholly (which is likely to be 15k/year if apps go down even more, as canadianwolf asserted loudly) is probably a better bet, since the biglaw prospects don't drop off that much but the debt definitely does.


But even 45k off sticker at Michigan would still pretty much need BigLaw to pay off debt, correct?

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descartesb4thehorse
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Re: Deferral at Mich. vs. NU

Postby descartesb4thehorse » Fri May 04, 2012 11:23 am

Ruxin1 wrote:
descartesb4thehorse wrote:
Ruxin1 wrote:
jrthor10 wrote:Orrrrr we can go back to helping me make my decision! :D


I'd say if you are Chicago or bust go Northwestern, and if open to other markets, take Michigan with most likely 10k/year.

Except if he's Chicago or bust with ties already, Mich with a scholly (which is likely to be 15k/year if apps go down even more, as canadianwolf asserted loudly) is probably a better bet, since the biglaw prospects don't drop off that much but the debt definitely does.


But even 45k off sticker at Michigan would still pretty much need BigLaw to pay off debt, correct?

Mich has a nice LRAP and from talking to current students, it seems like a fair amount do go into PI, as opposed to saying they'd like to do PI and then switching during OCI. So it's definitely a possibility to go that route.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Deferral at Mich. vs. NU

Postby CanadianWolf » Fri May 04, 2012 11:26 am

If Chicago or bust, then OP needs to find out whether or not NU will allow a waitlist admit to defer & whether or not OP would be eligible for NU scholarship money next year. And whether or not a higher LSAT score would help secure scholarship money for a deferred admit from the waitlist. In short, need more info. Some law schools do not permit waitlist admits to defer.

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Re: Deferral at Mich. vs. NU

Postby rec345 » Mon May 07, 2012 12:18 pm

Ruxin1 wrote:
descartesb4thehorse wrote:
Ruxin1 wrote:
I'd say if you are Chicago or bust go Northwestern, and if open to other markets, take Michigan with most likely 10k/year.

Except if he's Chicago or bust with ties already, Mich with a scholly (which is likely to be 15k/year if apps go down even more, as canadianwolf asserted loudly) is probably a better bet, since the biglaw prospects don't drop off that much but the debt definitely does.


But even 45k off sticker at Michigan would still pretty much need BigLaw to pay off debt, correct?



I'm slightly confused by all this advice. I have a similar problem, deciding between UVA/NU sticker or waiting a year and reapplying (I'm on Michigan's waitlist). In the thread I posted the consensus was I should attend whichever one I liked better this year, as it was a very risky bet and objectively unlikely that I would get scholarship money next cycle. For the record, my numbers are ever so slightly stronger than the OPs (3.4, 173, T10 UG) and I have strong softs. Why does everyone seem so convinced that deferral = money when neither the OP nor myself got scholly money this year?

09042014
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Re: Deferral at Mich. vs. NU

Postby 09042014 » Mon May 07, 2012 1:16 pm

I wouldn't commit to Michigan with a vague possibility of scholarship.

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jrthor10
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Re: Deferral at Mich. vs. NU vs. Duke UPDATED (14k a yr)

Postby jrthor10 » Tue May 08, 2012 5:43 pm

Updated at top; would be curious about anyone's thoughts.

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descartesb4thehorse
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Re: Deferral at Mich. vs. NU

Postby descartesb4thehorse » Tue May 08, 2012 6:07 pm

rec345 wrote:
Ruxin1 wrote:
descartesb4thehorse wrote:
Ruxin1 wrote:
I'd say if you are Chicago or bust go Northwestern, and if open to other markets, take Michigan with most likely 10k/year.

Except if he's Chicago or bust with ties already, Mich with a scholly (which is likely to be 15k/year if apps go down even more, as canadianwolf asserted loudly) is probably a better bet, since the biglaw prospects don't drop off that much but the debt definitely does.


But even 45k off sticker at Michigan would still pretty much need BigLaw to pay off debt, correct?



I'm slightly confused by all this advice. I have a similar problem, deciding between UVA/NU sticker or waiting a year and reapplying (I'm on Michigan's waitlist). In the thread I posted the consensus was I should attend whichever one I liked better this year, as it was a very risky bet and objectively unlikely that I would get scholarship money next cycle. For the record, my numbers are ever so slightly stronger than the OPs (3.4, 173, T10 UG) and I have strong softs. Why does everyone seem so convinced that deferral = money when neither the OP nor myself got scholly money this year?


Because I had OP's numbers, took a deferral, and got 15k a year. And the office told me that unlike admissions, which are done keeping the entire application in mind, scholarship offers are almost always based on numbers.

OP, you've still never really answered the question on where you want to work or what your career plans are, but this seems like a personal decision since your scholarship will probably be similar at Mich, do you want to go this year or next, and are you more interested in the south or midwest, and would you prefer biglaw or PI?

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Re: Deferral at Mich. vs. NU vs. Duke UPDATED (14k a yr)

Postby droidtime » Tue May 08, 2012 6:21 pm

Congrats on your Duke acceptance. If you want to start right away and the fact that MI probably won't offer a lot of scholarship money, I'd strongly consider Duke and NU over deferring. I believe the deferral is binding, so I would think twice before accepting.

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Cartman
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Re: Deferral at Mich. vs. NU vs. Duke UPDATED (14k a yr)

Postby Cartman » Thu May 10, 2012 8:26 pm

For what you want: Duke. Clear choice imo.




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