how insane would it be to choose Berkeley at sticker over T6

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Voldemort
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Re: how insane would it be to choose Berkeley at sticker over T6

Postby Voldemort » Tue May 08, 2012 12:46 am

I was also struggling with your decision. To be honest, between, Berkeley, Columbia, and NYU, everyone on these message boards can argue about what school gives you a better chance any where when the reality is where you end up is ultimately gonna depend on how well you do at the school, and doing well at any of these schools will give you similar if not the same opportunities. Even given the 45k, you should not discount that doing well in law school should be a primary factor you figure into your choice. If you think you will succeed at one school of the three significantly more, (because of environment, grades (or lack thereof), student body, etc) go there.

09042014
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Re: how insane would it be to choose Berkeley at sticker over T6

Postby 09042014 » Tue May 08, 2012 12:52 am

Voldemort wrote:I was also struggling with your decision. To be honest, between, Berkeley, Columbia, and NYU, everyone on these message boards can argue about what school gives you a better chance any where when the reality is where you end up is ultimately gonna depend on how well you do at the school, and doing well at any of these schools will give you similar if not the same opportunities. Even given the 45k, you should not discount that doing well in law school should be a primary factor you figure into your choice. If you think you will succeed at one school of the three significantly more, (because of environment, grades (or lack thereof), student body, etc) go there.


What kind of bitchmade punk is going to do worse because he has to study in Manhattan instead of Berkley.

shoeshine
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Re: how insane would it be to choose Berkeley at sticker over T6

Postby shoeshine » Tue May 08, 2012 12:59 am

Desert Fox wrote:
What kind of bitchmade punk is going to do worse because he has to study in Manhattan instead of Berkley.

I think this question answers itself.

Voldemort
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 2:44 pm

Re: how insane would it be to choose Berkeley at sticker over T6

Postby Voldemort » Tue May 08, 2012 2:05 am

Desert Fox wrote:
Voldemort wrote:I was also struggling with your decision. To be honest, between, Berkeley, Columbia, and NYU, everyone on these message boards can argue about what school gives you a better chance any where when the reality is where you end up is ultimately gonna depend on how well you do at the school, and doing well at any of these schools will give you similar if not the same opportunities. Even given the 45k, you should not discount that doing well in law school should be a primary factor you figure into your choice. If you think you will succeed at one school of the three significantly more, (because of environment, grades (or lack thereof), student body, etc) go there.


What kind of bitchmade punk is going to do worse because he has to study in Manhattan instead of Berkley.


Is this relevant? Do you resent the fact that the West Coast is more appealing to some people, or that they have the option, in addition to East Coast?

Where you are going to do well was not a question limited to WHERE geographically. As I said, student body, grades- and to add, class size, professor accessibility, housing....

Desertfox, law school is not something you should seek to tough out simply because you fear being a bitchmade punk. I'm sorry that you attended a law school valuing not being a bitchass punk over being successful in what you want to do.

09042014
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Re: how insane would it be to choose Berkeley at sticker over T6

Postby 09042014 » Tue May 08, 2012 2:15 am

Voldemort wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Voldemort wrote:I was also struggling with your decision. To be honest, between, Berkeley, Columbia, and NYU, everyone on these message boards can argue about what school gives you a better chance any where when the reality is where you end up is ultimately gonna depend on how well you do at the school, and doing well at any of these schools will give you similar if not the same opportunities. Even given the 45k, you should not discount that doing well in law school should be a primary factor you figure into your choice. If you think you will succeed at one school of the three significantly more, (because of environment, grades (or lack thereof), student body, etc) go there.


What kind of bitchmade punk is going to do worse because he has to study in Manhattan instead of Berkley.


Is this relevant? Do you resent the fact that the West Coast is more appealing to some people, or that they have the option, in addition to East Coast?

Where you are going to do well was not a question limited to WHERE geographically. As I said, student body, grades- and to add, class size, professor accessibility, housing....

Desertfox, law school is not something you should seek to tough out simply because you fear being a bitchmade punk. I'm sorry that you attended a law school valuing not being a bitchass punk over being successful in what you want to do.


Of course it is relevant. No I think the east coast blows.

As I said, student body, grades- and to add, class size, professor accessibility, housing....


You have no idea how these will affect you. You might end up thriving in a big class instead of small or vice versa. So trying to justify illogical choices with these factors is post hoc rationalization.

I'm sorry that you attended a law school valuing not being a bitchass punk over being successful in what you want to do.


My point was that unless you are a bitch ass punk, your location will not change your success at school. And it almost definitely not predictable. If there were other circumstances like your kids being in one location, that would make a predictable impact on the persons grades.

But "oh man I LOVE CALI BRAH, I WOULD DO SO MUCH WORSE IN NEW YORK BRAH" is just a rationalization.

Voldemort
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 2:44 pm

Re: how insane would it be to choose Berkeley at sticker over T6

Postby Voldemort » Tue May 08, 2012 2:21 am

Desert Fox wrote:
Voldemort wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Voldemort wrote:I was also struggling with your decision. To be honest, between, Berkeley, Columbia, and NYU, everyone on these message boards can argue about what school gives you a better chance any where when the reality is where you end up is ultimately gonna depend on how well you do at the school, and doing well at any of these schools will give you similar if not the same opportunities. Even given the 45k, you should not discount that doing well in law school should be a primary factor you figure into your choice. If you think you will succeed at one school of the three significantly more, (because of environment, grades (or lack thereof), student body, etc) go there.


What kind of bitchmade punk is going to do worse because he has to study in Manhattan instead of Berkley.


Is this relevant? Do you resent the fact that the West Coast is more appealing to some people, or that they have the option, in addition to East Coast?

Where you are going to do well was not a question limited to WHERE geographically. As I said, student body, grades- and to add, class size, professor accessibility, housing....

Desertfox, law school is not something you should seek to tough out simply because you fear being a bitchmade punk. I'm sorry that you attended a law school valuing not being a bitchass punk over being successful in what you want to do.


Of course it is relevant. No I think the east coast blows.

As I said, student body, grades- and to add, class size, professor accessibility, housing....


You have no idea how these will affect you. You might end up thriving in a big class instead of small or vice versa. So trying to justify illogical choices with these factors is post hoc rationalization.

I'm sorry that you attended a law school valuing not being a bitchass punk over being successful in what you want to do.


My point was that unless you are a bitch ass punk, your location will not change your success at school. And it almost definitely not predictable. If there were other circumstances like your kids being in one location, that would make a predictable impact on the persons grades.

But "oh man I LOVE CALI BRAH, I WOULD DO SO MUCH WORSE IN NEW YORK BRAH" is just a rationalization.


I feel pretty bad for you that you can't gauge what school you like by picturing yourself attending and are forced to objectify things without seeing how they apply to you, your temperament, and your proclivities. There are subjective factors in decision making. Your logic is retarded.

09042014
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Re: how insane would it be to choose Berkeley at sticker over T6

Postby 09042014 » Tue May 08, 2012 2:28 am

Voldemort wrote:
I feel pretty bad for you that you can't gauge what school you like by picturing yourself attending and are forced to objectify things without seeing how they apply to you, your temperament, and your proclivities. There are subjective factors in decision making. Your logic is retarded.


1) People say what they want and are often pretty fucking wrong. People are very bad judges of their own character. OP might say he wants a small class size, but then he might spend the whole time chasing chick instead of studying. Or maybe someone started a bad rumor and everyone dislikes him, and at a bigger school noobdy would know who he was.

2) You really can't tell what your law school is going to be like. The temperament of classes change every year because it's a new random group of people. The people going to the t14 are all pretty similar. These schools have mostly the same section size, they are recruiting similar professors, taking similar exams, etc. etc.

Like I said, if having to study in Manhattan throws you into a depression that impacts your grade performance you are a bitchmade punk.

TheRedMamba
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Re: how insane would it be to choose Berkeley at sticker over T6

Postby TheRedMamba » Tue May 08, 2012 3:10 am

Desert Fox wrote:
Voldemort wrote:
I feel pretty bad for you that you can't gauge what school you like by picturing yourself attending and are forced to objectify things without seeing how they apply to you, your temperament, and your proclivities. There are subjective factors in decision making. Your logic is retarded.


1) People say what they want and are often pretty fucking wrong. People are very bad judges of their own character. OP might say he wants a small class size, but then he might spend the whole time chasing chick instead of studying. Or maybe someone started a bad rumor and everyone dislikes him, and at a bigger school noobdy would know who he was.

2) You really can't tell what your law school is going to be like. The temperament of classes change every year because it's a new random group of people. The people going to the t14 are all pretty similar. These schools have mostly the same section size, they are recruiting similar professors, taking similar exams, etc. etc.

Like I said, if having to study in Manhattan throws you into a depression that impacts your grade performance you are a bitchmade punk.


While I agree with you that the law school experience is, for the most part, unpredictable, I think you are exaggerating just a bit. I dont think that location is or should be an excuse for poor performance but to say that moving across the country (as opposed to staying close to home) has no bearing on the difficulty of the law school experience is naive. There is something about being in a familiar setting, even if it is only relatively familiar, and the peace of mind of being close to loved ones that makes dealing with all the pressures of starting law school a little bit easier. At the very least it will make the perception of dealing with the transition easier. Call it a rationalization, and it very well may be, but if you perceive it that way, rationally or not, it's gonna make some sort of difference.

In my case, I wanted to get out of my comfort zone and experience somewhere new. I feel that it will enhance my growth as a person and give me a better perspective on who I am and where I ultimately want to end up. But thats just me. If OP feels more comfortable staying closer to home then there is nothing wrong with factoring that in the decision making process. Choosing a school is, at the end of the day, a personal choice and, while I agree we should try to be objective in making such an important decision, it would be foolish to completely remove ones own gut feelings, however "irrational" they may be, from the process entirely.

09042014
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Re: how insane would it be to choose Berkeley at sticker over T6

Postby 09042014 » Tue May 08, 2012 3:34 am

TheRedMamba wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Voldemort wrote:
I feel pretty bad for you that you can't gauge what school you like by picturing yourself attending and are forced to objectify things without seeing how they apply to you, your temperament, and your proclivities. There are subjective factors in decision making. Your logic is retarded.


1) People say what they want and are often pretty fucking wrong. People are very bad judges of their own character. OP might say he wants a small class size, but then he might spend the whole time chasing chick instead of studying. Or maybe someone started a bad rumor and everyone dislikes him, and at a bigger school noobdy would know who he was.

2) You really can't tell what your law school is going to be like. The temperament of classes change every year because it's a new random group of people. The people going to the t14 are all pretty similar. These schools have mostly the same section size, they are recruiting similar professors, taking similar exams, etc. etc.

Like I said, if having to study in Manhattan throws you into a depression that impacts your grade performance you are a bitchmade punk.


While I agree with you that the law school experience is, for the most part, unpredictable, I think you are exaggerating just a bit. I dont think that location is or should be an excuse for poor performance but to say that moving across the country (as opposed to staying close to home) has no bearing on the difficulty of the law school experience is naive. There is something about being in a familiar setting, even if it is only relatively familiar, and the peace of mind of being close to loved ones that makes dealing with all the pressures of starting law school a little bit easier. At the very least it will make the perception of dealing with the transition easier. Call it a rationalization, and it very well may be, but if you perceive it that way, rationally or not, it's gonna make some sort of difference.

In my case, I wanted to get out of my comfort zone and experience somewhere new. I feel that it will enhance my growth as a person and give me a better perspective on who I am and where I ultimately want to end up. But thats just me. If OP feels more comfortable staying closer to home then there is nothing wrong with factoring that in the decision making process. Choosing a school is, at the end of the day, a personal choice and, while I agree we should try to be objective in making such an important decision, it would be foolish to completely remove ones own gut feelings, however "irrational" they may be, from the process entirely.


I went to school a 15 minute car ride from where I worked before law school. It was still new, and put me out of my comfort zone.

I'm not saying there is no effect, I'm saying it's not that large and totally unpredictable. So turning down a lot of money and better job placement is a poor choice.

Real Madrid
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Re: how insane would it be to choose Berkeley at sticker over T6

Postby Real Madrid » Tue May 08, 2012 7:13 am

TheRedMamba wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
bk1 wrote:
twentypercentmore wrote:Okay, okay, fair enough. :p

Seriously, it's that bad -- to the extent a Columbia grad with ties can't get back easily enough?


Depends what you means by "easily enough." Almost 50% of CLS grads are going to end up below median. Even with ties I suspect that people around median and below won't have the easiest time getting back to CA.


Yea but do you think that firms would take below median at Boalt but won't take below median CLS with strong CA ties? I don't.


This. Plus, I think a lot of you are underestimating the state of flux that California and, as a result, the UC system is in. I can definitely see Boalt's tuition increase while it's job prospects decrease over the next three years.


lmao

DBishops
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Re: how insane would it be to choose Berkeley at sticker over T6

Postby DBishops » Tue May 08, 2012 11:51 am

LMFAO. Who says bitchmade punk?

DBishops
Posts: 80
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:17 am

Re: how insane would it be to choose Berkeley at sticker over T6

Postby DBishops » Tue May 08, 2012 5:16 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
TheRedMamba wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Voldemort wrote:
I feel pretty bad for you that you can't gauge what school you like by picturing yourself attending and are forced to objectify things without seeing how they apply to you, your temperament, and your proclivities. There are subjective factors in decision making. Your logic is retarded.


1) People say what they want and are often pretty fucking wrong. People are very bad judges of their own character. OP might say he wants a small class size, but then he might spend the whole time chasing chick instead of studying. Or maybe someone started a bad rumor and everyone dislikes him, and at a bigger school noobdy would know who he was.

2) You really can't tell what your law school is going to be like. The temperament of classes change every year because it's a new random group of people. The people going to the t14 are all pretty similar. These schools have mostly the same section size, they are recruiting similar professors, taking similar exams, etc. etc.

Like I said, if having to study in Manhattan throws you into a depression that impacts your grade performance you are a bitchmade punk.


While I agree with you that the law school experience is, for the most part, unpredictable, I think you are exaggerating just a bit. I dont think that location is or should be an excuse for poor performance but to say that moving across the country (as opposed to staying close to home) has no bearing on the difficulty of the law school experience is naive. There is something about being in a familiar setting, even if it is only relatively familiar, and the peace of mind of being close to loved ones that makes dealing with all the pressures of starting law school a little bit easier. At the very least it will make the perception of dealing with the transition easier. Call it a rationalization, and it very well may be, but if you perceive it that way, rationally or not, it's gonna make some sort of difference.

In my case, I wanted to get out of my comfort zone and experience somewhere new. I feel that it will enhance my growth as a person and give me a better perspective on who I am and where I ultimately want to end up. But thats just me. If OP feels more comfortable staying closer to home then there is nothing wrong with factoring that in the decision making process. Choosing a school is, at the end of the day, a personal choice and, while I agree we should try to be objective in making such an important decision, it would be foolish to completely remove ones own gut feelings, however "irrational" they may be, from the process entirely.


I went to school a 15 minute car ride from where I worked before law school. It was still new, and put me out of my comfort zone.

I'm not saying there is no effect, I'm saying it's not that large and totally unpredictable. So turning down a lot of money and better job placement is a poor choice.


According to your logic, visiting any school prior to attending would lend nothing to an informed decision. You sound bitter.

Also, 45k is not that much in the grand scheme of things. Job placement of the three schools OP listed is better predicted by law school success than simple attendance of the law school itself.

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moneybagsphd
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Re: how insane would it be to choose Berkeley at sticker over T6

Postby moneybagsphd » Tue May 08, 2012 5:25 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Voldemort wrote:I was also struggling with your decision. To be honest, between, Berkeley, Columbia, and NYU, everyone on these message boards can argue about what school gives you a better chance any where when the reality is where you end up is ultimately gonna depend on how well you do at the school, and doing well at any of these schools will give you similar if not the same opportunities. Even given the 45k, you should not discount that doing well in law school should be a primary factor you figure into your choice. If you think you will succeed at one school of the three significantly more, (because of environment, grades (or lack thereof), student body, etc) go there.


What kind of bitchmade punk is going to do worse because he has to study in Manhattan instead of Berkley.

I agree with this sentiment.

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Redamon1
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Re: how insane would it be to choose Berkeley at sticker over T6

Postby Redamon1 » Tue May 08, 2012 5:29 pm

DBishops wrote: According to your logic, visiting any school prior to attending would lend nothing to an informed decision. You sound bitter.

Also, 45k is not that much in the grand scheme of things. Job placement of the three schools OP listed is better predicted by law school success than simple attendance of the law school itself.


I agree with this sentiment.




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