how insane would it be to choose Berkeley at sticker over T6

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
doomed123
Posts: 156
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:05 am

how insane would it be to choose Berkeley at sticker over T6

Postby doomed123 » Thu May 03, 2012 8:55 pm

I'm from California and want to end up working there, so Berkeley seems like an obvious choice. But unfortunately, they don't seem to want to offer me any money (tried the matching scholarship application, they still haven't gotten back to me). I could go to CCN w/ a scholly, but I don't want to leave California, or to give up the advantage that Berkeley probably has in its home market. Would it be crazy to just give up the T6 scholly and pay the terrifying sticker price at Berkeley??? I don't know what to do!

EDIT: The scholly amount got cut off from the thread title; it's $45k

User avatar
moonman157
Posts: 1039
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:26 pm

Re: how insane would it be to choose Berkeley at sticker over T6

Postby moonman157 » Thu May 03, 2012 9:00 pm

There are far worse schools to pay sticker at than berkeley. With that said, T6 with scholly is a great offer and they generally offer good career prospects on the west coast, though berkeley may still be an advantage there. A lot depends on your financial situation. If you have undergraduate student loans, then eliminate debt at all costs. If your parents are helping you financially with law school, then studying where you want to looks more attractive. It all depends on your situation, but I wouldn't call it insane, given berkeleys reputation and your desire to study and practice in california

CanadianWolf
Posts: 10439
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:54 pm

Re: how insane would it be to choose Berkeley at sticker over T6

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu May 03, 2012 9:02 pm

Call Berkeley & inquire about the status of your matching scholarship application.

lblelalr
Posts: 48
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:34 pm

Re: how insane would it be to choose Berkeley at sticker over T6

Postby lblelalr » Thu May 03, 2012 9:05 pm

I did the exact thing you just described; gave up 45k at CLS and 60k at NYU for Boalt without hearing back from matching scholarships. I'm trying to justify it by looking at Boalt's IP program, the fact that I want to work in the Bay, and the COL expenses I can save by living at home. That being said, if I wasn't IP and didn't have family in the area, I probably would have gone to NYC. But its hard, and sometimes I just wanna punch myself in the face.

doomed123
Posts: 156
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:05 am

Re: how insane would it be to choose Berkeley at sticker over T6

Postby doomed123 » Thu May 03, 2012 9:05 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Call Berkeley & inquire about the status of your matching scholarship application.


I did. They basically just told me to keep waiting.

CanadianWolf
Posts: 10439
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:54 pm

Re: how insane would it be to choose Berkeley at sticker over T6

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu May 03, 2012 9:09 pm

If the T-6 is Chicago, then deposit there since it'll certainly get you back to California.

Are you worried about future tuition & fees increases at UCal-Berkeley ?

Real Madrid
Posts: 835
Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 12:21 am

Re: how insane would it be to choose Berkeley at sticker over T6

Postby Real Madrid » Thu May 03, 2012 9:15 pm

Though it wasn't a CCN school, I too turned down a 45k offer from a T14 to attend Boalt at what will presumably be sticker price. One of the things that I think is often overlooked on this board is fit/happiness in a particular area or at a particular school, and sometimes I think it's hard to put a price tag on that. Some people will probably tell you you're crazy, but I think a lot of people at Berkeley are paying sticker price after having turned down schollies at other T14s, and many of them do so because the Bay Area is such a desirable place to live.

If you are sure you want to live in California/The Bay, why not? You only live once, so you might as well spend that life in a place you love.

CanadianWolf
Posts: 10439
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:54 pm

Re: how insane would it be to choose Berkeley at sticker over T6

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu May 03, 2012 9:26 pm

Good point, but there comes a day of reckoning.

User avatar
moneybagsphd
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:07 pm

Re: how insane would it be to choose Berkeley at sticker over T6

Postby moneybagsphd » Thu May 03, 2012 9:52 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Good point, but there comes a day of reckoning.

+1. Some of those people taking on extra debt to go to a school based on 'fit' will regret when their loans become payable.

Real Madrid
Posts: 835
Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 12:21 am

Re: how insane would it be to choose Berkeley at sticker over T6

Postby Real Madrid » Thu May 03, 2012 10:00 pm

moneybagsphd wrote:
CanadianWolf wrote:Good point, but there comes a day of reckoning.

+1. Some of those people taking on extra debt to go to a school based on 'fit' will regret when their loans become payable.


Some will, some won't. Some people would rather be lower middle class in a city they love than upper middle class in a city they hate.

SaintFond
Posts: 120
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:19 pm

Re: how insane would it be to choose Berkeley at sticker over T6

Postby SaintFond » Thu May 03, 2012 10:07 pm

Not when CCN is giving you 45K, no.

cidergirl
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:19 pm

Re: how insane would it be to choose Berkeley at sticker over T6

Postby cidergirl » Thu May 03, 2012 10:36 pm

SaintFond wrote:Not when CCN is giving you 45K, no.


I agree with this. I also bet Boalt will budge and match. You still have time, right, because you don't need to firmly commit to Boalt until June?

User avatar
bk1
Posts: 18422
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: how insane would it be to choose Berkeley at sticker over T6

Postby bk1 » Thu May 03, 2012 11:01 pm

45k is almost a pittance compared to sticker price. If you really only want CA then it's probably not the worst idea. Whether it's T6 with 45k or Cal at sticker you're going to be over 200k debt anyways.

Is it the most rational financial decision? Of course not, but people's geographic preferences aren't necessarily things that can be quantified and given a monetary value so I see no issue here.

SaintFond
Posts: 120
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:19 pm

Re: how insane would it be to choose Berkeley at sticker over T6

Postby SaintFond » Thu May 03, 2012 11:28 pm

bk1 wrote:45k is almost a pittance compared to sticker price. If you really only want CA then it's probably not the worst idea. Whether it's T6 with 45k or Cal at sticker you're going to be over 200k debt anyways.

Is it the most rational financial decision? Of course not, but people's geographic preferences aren't necessarily things that can be quantified and given a monetary value so I see no issue here.


moneybagsphd wrote:
CanadianWolf wrote:Good point, but there comes a day of reckoning.

+1. Some of those people taking on extra debt to go to a school based on 'fit' will regret when their loans become payable.


Gotta agree with this. Placement rates ultimately trump geographical preferences, especially when the higher ranked school is offering you money which the lower ranked school isn't.

With that said, if you were ABSOLUTELY committed to CA, it might depend upon which CCN we're talking here. NYU and MAYBE even Chicago could be passed over, but if it's Columbia that is giving you 45K, you should go to Columbia.

User avatar
FlanAl
Posts: 1474
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:53 pm

Re: how insane would it be to choose Berkeley at sticker over T6

Postby FlanAl » Thu May 03, 2012 11:32 pm

what is IN STATE sticker at cal compared to the cost of columbia?

SaintFond
Posts: 120
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:19 pm

Re: how insane would it be to choose Berkeley at sticker over T6

Postby SaintFond » Thu May 03, 2012 11:36 pm

In-state Cal is ~50K for tuition & fees, Columbia is just shy of 55K.

grimfan
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 4:40 pm

Re: how insane would it be to choose Berkeley at sticker over T6

Postby grimfan » Sat May 05, 2012 12:43 am

From purely a financial perspective, wouldn't the savings from living at home add up to $45 000 worth of scholarship money in 3 years?

This seems like more of an issue of future employability than it is about money. I can see turning down NYU for Berkeley, but Columbia? That's hard.

09042014
Posts: 18282
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm

Re: how insane would it be to choose Berkeley at sticker over T6

Postby 09042014 » Sat May 05, 2012 12:52 am

bk1 wrote:45k is almost a pittance compared to sticker price. If you really only want CA then it's probably not the worst idea. Whether it's T6 with 45k or Cal at sticker you're going to be over 200k debt anyways.

Is it the most rational financial decision? Of course not, but people's geographic preferences aren't necessarily things that can be quantified and given a monetary value so I see no issue here.


45K is a year in big law saving literally every penny you make. It's fairly significant.

Even if you assume Boalt = CCN for Bay Area, 45K is enough to make you go elsewhere.

Spending three years in a different area isn't a bad idea.

User avatar
smokeylarue
Posts: 408
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 3:55 pm

Re: how insane would it be to choose Berkeley at sticker over T6

Postby smokeylarue » Sat May 05, 2012 6:31 am

-
Last edited by smokeylarue on Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
BarbellDreams
Posts: 2256
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:10 pm

Re: how insane would it be to choose Berkeley at sticker over T6

Postby BarbellDreams » Sat May 05, 2012 12:25 pm

I would absolutely go to Columbia with a scholly over Boalt at sticker. 45k is a lot, Columbia has a solid shot to get you back to CA either way, and overall job prospects from Columbia are simply better than Boalt.

sandiego222
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:21 pm

Re: how insane would it be to choose Berkeley at sticker over T6

Postby sandiego222 » Sat May 05, 2012 12:39 pm

Instead of posting on here, CALL Berkeley and tell them that you would prefer to go there, but have a scholarship at a T6.

Actually talking to them WORKS (on the phone or in perosn). People need to realize this (for waitlists, scholarships, etc)

Real Madrid
Posts: 835
Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 12:21 am

Re: how insane would it be to choose Berkeley at sticker over T6

Postby Real Madrid » Sat May 05, 2012 1:11 pm

sandiego222 wrote:Instead of posting on here, CALL Berkeley and tell them that you would prefer to go there, but have a scholarship at a T6.

Actually talking to them WORKS (on the phone or in perosn). People need to realize this (for waitlists, scholarships, etc)


I don't think you appreciate just how difficult it has been to get answers out of Berkeley's admissions and financial aid offices about scholarships this year. Virtually everyone I know who has contacted the office has received some variation of "wait" in response to their inquiries.

Also, "T6" and other tiering (with the exception of YHS) does not exist anywhere outside of TLS. So I don't think Berkeley is going to a take a scholarship from NYU any more seriously than a scholarship from Penn or UVA.

ToTransferOrNot
Posts: 1928
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:45 am

Re: how insane would it be to choose Berkeley at sticker over T6

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Sat May 05, 2012 1:24 pm

To the "California is the best place to live" guy: Not for buying power, it isn't. Chicago and Texas top that list; not everyone puts weather (which you won't have a lot of time to enjoy) over money. That said, OP seems to, so eh.

OP: You need to compare CoL of whatever the CCN is with COL at Berkeley and add (or subtract) from the scholarship as appropriate. Also factor in interest that is accruing while you're in school. Make sure you have the full financial picture before you make your decision. Only you can decide whether living in California for 3 years instead of somewhere else is worth $X. As far as job placement goes: CCN indisputably has better job placement than Berkeley, but who knows how much that applies in the California market. I doubt that CCN would be at a *disadvantage* though, unless you fall outside of biglaw range, in which case you're fucked anyway (because of debt load).

sandiego222
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:21 pm

Re: how insane would it be to choose Berkeley at sticker over T6

Postby sandiego222 » Sat May 05, 2012 2:04 pm

Real Madrid wrote:
sandiego222 wrote:Instead of posting on here, CALL Berkeley and tell them that you would prefer to go there, but have a scholarship at a T6.

Actually talking to them WORKS (on the phone or in perosn). People need to realize this (for waitlists, scholarships, etc)


I don't think you appreciate just how difficult it has been to get answers out of Berkeley's admissions and financial aid offices about scholarships this year. Virtually everyone I know who has contacted the office has received some variation of "wait" in response to their inquiries.



That is completely compatible with what I said. It may be difficult, but why not call? It can only improve your chances. Sure, they may not say that an NYU acceptance is a better leverage position than a UVA scholarhsip, but if he is getting nothing from Berkeley, it could help to let them know that another top 10 school has given him money


I've had great success this cycle by personally meeting with admissions/ financial aid folks in order to get off the waitlist of my choosing and receive scholarship money at 3 different schools that originally gave me no or lower offers.


There is no harm to it. Everyone who is afraid to talk to them will email them. If you step up to the plate and go beyond that, you could get better results

doomed123
Posts: 156
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:05 am

Re: how insane would it be to choose Berkeley at sticker over T6

Postby doomed123 » Sat May 05, 2012 2:12 pm

sandiego222 wrote:
Real Madrid wrote:
sandiego222 wrote:Instead of posting on here, CALL Berkeley and tell them that you would prefer to go there, but have a scholarship at a T6.

Actually talking to them WORKS (on the phone or in perosn). People need to realize this (for waitlists, scholarships, etc)


I don't think you appreciate just how difficult it has been to get answers out of Berkeley's admissions and financial aid offices about scholarships this year. Virtually everyone I know who has contacted the office has received some variation of "wait" in response to their inquiries.



That is completely compatible with what I said. It may be difficult, but why not call? It can only improve your chances. Sure, they may not say that an NYU acceptance is a better leverage position than a UVA scholarhsip, but if he is getting nothing from Berkeley, it could help to let them know that another top 10 school has given him money


I've had great success this cycle by personally meeting with admissions/ financial aid folks in order to get off the waitlist of my choosing and receive scholarship money at 3 different schools that originally gave me no or lower offers.


There is no harm to it. Everyone who is afraid to talk to them will email them. If you step up to the plate and go beyond that, you could get better results


Um, as I already stated in the thread, I did call. In fact, I called twice - was basically told to continue waiting. And emailed multiple times - received no response at all. They really don't seem to care.




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: andpeggy, Mhr, mudiverse and 11 guests