USF Law or Mcgeorge School of Law

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dcespedes
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USF Law or Mcgeorge School of Law

Postby dcespedes » Thu May 03, 2012 1:48 pm

So...I shouldve posted this a long time ago seeing as though I HAVE TO reach a decision by tomorrow.....but anyway I have gotten accepted into Mcgeorge School of Law with an 18,000 renewable scholarship as long as i stay in the top 1/3 of my class. I also got accepted into USF Law and they are offering me 33,500 but only for my first year. Both schools are ranked around the same and I visited both which really didnt make my decision any easier. I want to live and practice in California but I dont know which school I should pick! Ive done research on both schools but still cant come to a decision. Any suggestions for me??

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flem
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Re: USF Law or Mcgeorge School of Law

Postby flem » Thu May 03, 2012 1:58 pm

dcespedes wrote:So...I shouldve posted this a long time ago seeing as though I HAVE TO reach a decision by tomorrow.....but anyway I have gotten accepted into Mcgeorge School of Law with an 18,000 renewable scholarship as long as i stay in the top 1/3 of my class. I also got accepted into USF Law and they are offering me 33,500 but only for my first year. Both schools are ranked around the same and I visited both which really didnt make my decision any easier. I want to live and practice in California but I dont know which school I should pick! Ive done research on both schools but still cant come to a decision. Any suggestions for me??


Sounds easy enough.

What are you career goals and what is the total debt at each?

dcespedes
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Re: USF Law or Mcgeorge School of Law

Postby dcespedes » Thu May 03, 2012 2:09 pm

Not really sure what my career goals are yet to be honest. I figured I would get a better idea after my 1L as to where I gravitate towards more but for now I have interests in the International, Business, and Environmental Law areas. As far as debt goes both schools are around the same in tuition which is about 42-43k a year. San Francisco is going to be much more expensive to live than Sacramento, but they give you around the same aid at both schools to cover cost of living so they are pretty comparable as far as debt goes.

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stillwater
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Re: USF Law or Mcgeorge School of Law

Postby stillwater » Thu May 03, 2012 2:14 pm

dcespedes wrote:Not really sure what my career goals are yet to be honest. I figured I would get a better idea after my 1L as to where I gravitate towards more but for now I have interests in the International, Business, and Environmental Law areas. As far as debt goes both schools are around the same in tuition which is about 42-43k a year. San Francisco is going to be much more expensive to live than Sacramento, but they give you around the same aid at both schools to cover cost of living so they are pretty comparable as far as debt goes.


Gonna be tough getting a good gig out of these schools, not going to sugarcoat it. I think to make it worth it these schools would need to be free or close to it.

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flem
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Re: USF Law or Mcgeorge School of Law

Postby flem » Thu May 03, 2012 2:15 pm

dcespedes wrote:Not really sure what my career goals are yet to be honest. I figured I would get a better idea after my 1L as to where I gravitate towards more but for now I have interests in the International, Business, and Environmental Law areas. As far as debt goes both schools are around the same in tuition which is about 42-43k a year. San Francisco is going to be much more expensive to live than Sacramento, but they give you around the same aid at both schools to cover cost of living so they are pretty comparable as far as debt goes.


Bro. 120K + interest is not worth it for the career prospects that await you on the other side unless someone else is paying, and even then I'd feel bad about taking their money.

McGeorge class of 2010 has 60% of dudes with NO FULL TIME EMPLOYMENT OF ANY SORT.

San Francisco has similar stats

These are abysmal placement stats and these schools at those prices is a one way ticket into a long period of abject poverty.

dcespedes
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Re: USF Law or Mcgeorge School of Law

Postby dcespedes » Thu May 03, 2012 2:37 pm

@flem Wow. Where did you see those stats?? @stillwater/flem And yeah I already figured it would be an uphill battle for me with these schools but those are my only options as of now. I have been waitlisted at Cardozo Law School and im still awaiting a decision from Baylor Law Schools but as it stands USF and McGeorge are my only options. I am definitely considering transferring if I end up going to one of those two schools (which i most like will unfortunately). With this being the case if I dont hear a favorable response from Cardozo or Baylor soon I think I may lean towards USF since they are offering the most amount of money up front. Any thoughts on that?

dcespedes
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Re: USF Law or Mcgeorge School of Law

Postby dcespedes » Thu May 03, 2012 2:45 pm

Also, I think the gameplan that I am formulating would be to take the 33,500 (possibly 38,500) from USF and just work my ass off and try to transfer to a better school the following year as a 2L.

TheZoid
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Re: USF Law or Mcgeorge School of Law

Postby TheZoid » Thu May 03, 2012 2:46 pm

Any particular reason you're not considering 1) not attending law school, or 2) retake/reapply as options?

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flem
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Re: USF Law or Mcgeorge School of Law

Postby flem » Thu May 03, 2012 2:46 pm

dcespedes wrote:Also, I think the gameplan that I am formulating would be to take the 33,500 (possibly 38,500) from USF and just work my ass off and try to transfer to a better school the following year as a 2L.


Risky. As in, you realistically have a 5-10% (closer to 5%) shot at doing that. So by risky I mean terrible gameplan.

The stats came from this thread

What's your GPA/LSAT? If you really want to go to law school you should absolutely retake. Studying for the LSAT and getting a better score that will get you into better schools with better outcomes is a billion times more easy than transferring. Everyone will be trying to work really hard.

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stillwater
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Re: USF Law or Mcgeorge School of Law

Postby stillwater » Thu May 03, 2012 2:51 pm

I think instead of looking at the potential upside, which is ~5% chance, you should look also at the downside, which is 50%+ chance you are totally boned. Retake the LSAT if possible. Easiest way to improve your lot.

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BmoreOrLess
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Re: USF Law or Mcgeorge School of Law

Postby BmoreOrLess » Thu May 03, 2012 2:59 pm

0L here, so take it for what its worth, but I talked to some USF kids a few weeks ago while I was out in SF visiting a friend (his GF goes there), and they generally seem happy with the school, but also are very aware that they will struggle for jobs. Gun to your head and you must go this year, you could do USF and try to crush it. If it doesn't work out figure things out from there, if it does work out try to find a way to get more money/transfer opportunities.

With the top 3rd stip at mcgeorge, your expected cost (in terms of probability and the likely hood you maintain your scholarship at mcgeorge) is pretty much the same, except USF gives you a better out if things go bad since its front loaded. That $33,500 scholarship is the exact same thing as a $12k scholarship with no stips when you take interest into account. If you asked anyone on this site whether you should take 18k with top 3rd stip at mcgeorge vs. $12k with no stips at USF, the overwhelming majority would say USF (of course after saying Retake).

dcespedes
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Re: USF Law or Mcgeorge School of Law

Postby dcespedes » Thu May 03, 2012 3:03 pm

Yeah...mY GPA was a 3.0 but after the LSAC averaged it, I was left with a 2.5 and my LSAT score is a 160. I have taken it twice already and I had to work my behind off just to get that 160 score. I just dont want to put myself through that a third time. I told myself whatever score that I got that time I would just take it and go.

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ilovesf
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Re: USF Law or Mcgeorge School of Law

Postby ilovesf » Thu May 03, 2012 3:03 pm

If you're absolutely settled in attending and will not retake under any circumstances, and you're 100% committed to going to LS, then USF. Top 1/3 is a shitty stip and you'd be likely to lose your scholly.

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flem
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Re: USF Law or Mcgeorge School of Law

Postby flem » Thu May 03, 2012 3:05 pm

dcespedes wrote:Yeah...mY GPA was a 3.0 but after the LSAC averaged it, I was left with a 2.5 and my LSAT score is a 160. I have taken it twice already and I had to work my behind off just to get that 160 score. I just dont want to put myself through that a third time. I told myself whatever score that I got that time I would just take it and go.



Gah, you're in a rough spot. Honestly though, "putting yourself" through a third retake will be far less stressful than either 1) trying to make top 5% and transfer or 2) stick it out and try and make it in the 40% who land employment.

The correct response, however, if you absolutely positively will not retake is to go to USF and drop out if you don't make top 10% since the scholarship is frontloaded.

dcespedes
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Re: USF Law or Mcgeorge School of Law

Postby dcespedes » Thu May 03, 2012 3:10 pm

@BmoreOrLess Haha well said. When put into that context it sounds much better to go with USF and as far as the whole gun to my head thing I think that will have to be the gameplan since at this point my options are laid out in from of me and I really want to go to a top law school but my LSAT and GPA just couldnt cut it to get in initially. I know that the odds are stacked heavily againgst me, but excluding the retake option, transferring is my only alternate option.

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flem
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Re: USF Law or Mcgeorge School of Law

Postby flem » Thu May 03, 2012 3:12 pm

I would strongly advise a 3rd retake before plunking down any amount of money at either of these schools.

dcespedes
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Re: USF Law or Mcgeorge School of Law

Postby dcespedes » Thu May 03, 2012 3:20 pm

@flem Harsh but looks to be true my friend. If I honestly thought I could do significantly better on my LSAT then I would go for it, but as much as I studied for that 160 Im doubtful that if I were to do better it would be by much. Not being pessimistic by any means, just studied about 7-12 hours a day for that last month before the test...On the brighter side im on the fence with Baylor Law School and Im on Cardozo's waitlist still so all is not lost I suppose..

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ilovesf
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Re: USF Law or Mcgeorge School of Law

Postby ilovesf » Thu May 03, 2012 3:29 pm

dcespedes wrote:@flem Harsh but looks to be true my friend. If I honestly thought I could do significantly better on my LSAT then I would go for it, but as much as I studied for that 160 Im doubtful that if I were to do better it would be by much. Not being pessimistic by any means, just studied about 7-12 hours a day for that last month before the test...On the brighter side im on the fence with Baylor Law School and Im on Cardozo's waitlist still so all is not lost I suppose..

You can do it dude. I got a 158 my first try and then got a 165 on my second. A 165 still isn't great by TLS standards, but it was an improvement for me. I actually really regret not taking it a 3rd time. If I had found TLS before I applied, I would have taken it a third time after reading all the advice here. My retake though elevated me from applying to USF to attending UC Hastings. I'm happy at UCH, but it would have obviously been better to go to a better school. I say sign up for the October test, start studying now, and reapply next year. Most people spend a lot more than 1 month studying for the test.

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BmoreOrLess
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Re: USF Law or Mcgeorge School of Law

Postby BmoreOrLess » Thu May 03, 2012 3:32 pm

dcespedes wrote:@BmoreOrLess Haha well said. When put into that context it sounds much better to go with USF and as far as the whole gun to my head thing I think that will have to be the gameplan since at this point my options are laid out in from of me and I really want to go to a top law school but my LSAT and GPA just couldnt cut it to get in initially. I know that the odds are stacked heavily againgst me, but excluding the retake option, transferring is my only alternate option.


I mean, its repeated ad nauseum to retake, but I think you could really help yourself out right now doing so. Schools are getting real desperate right now and are throwing around a lot of money to top LSATs in the bottom part of the T1. I know your GPA sucks, but if you could swing a 166 or so, some school is going to bite hard even with your GPA. When your below the 25% mark it really doesn't make a whole lot of sense for these schools to care whether you have a 3.1 a 2.75 or a 2.5. They can grab a reverse splitter easy to make up for you, but its not so easy to find 165+ LSAT's right now. My case is a perfect example. My GPA is a 2.95 and my LSAT is a 168. Alabama gave me a full ride, but there are kids in the acceptance thread with 3.8+ and a 164 still waiting on a decision.

Its a buyers market for high and moderately high LSATs. If you can get a 165+ someone is going to throw you a bone. Worst case scenario your stuck in the same spot you are now, but with a year of WE/savings.

timbs4339
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Re: USF Law or Mcgeorge School of Law

Postby timbs4339 » Thu May 03, 2012 3:33 pm

dcespedes wrote:@flem Harsh but looks to be true my friend. If I honestly thought I could do significantly better on my LSAT then I would go for it, but as much as I studied for that 160 Im doubtful that if I were to do better it would be by much. Not being pessimistic by any means, just studied about 7-12 hours a day for that last month before the test...On the brighter side im on the fence with Baylor Law School and Im on Cardozo's waitlist still so all is not lost I suppose..


How have you been studying? Start up a thread in the LSAT prep forum and see if you've been making any big mistakes. The LSAT is a lot like law school in that more time invested does not necessarily equal better outcomes- it's all about studying smart and using the correct methods. If you aren't you are just wasting time and stressing out for no good reason.

I second that you should not go to these schools for anything less than 75% covered with a maximum top half stip.

dcespedes
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Re: USF Law or Mcgeorge School of Law

Postby dcespedes » Thu May 03, 2012 3:44 pm

Yeah you guys are really making me consider this retake lol. Its just that I dont want to waste anymore time. Im 25 now and I really dont want to wait another year before starting law school. If I was going to do a retake, I would have to take a different approach to it because 7-12 hours a day for a 160 was really discouraging. Aside from that, I could look towards the June test but that may be too soon? I appreciate all of the advice and encouragement that you guys are offering me as well. I only wish that I knew about TLS sooner.

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BmoreOrLess
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Re: USF Law or Mcgeorge School of Law

Postby BmoreOrLess » Thu May 03, 2012 3:50 pm

dcespedes wrote:Yeah you guys are really making me consider this retake lol. Its just that I dont want to waste anymore time. Im 25 now and I really dont want to wait another year before starting law school. If I was going to do a retake, I would have to take a different approach to it because 7-12 hours a day for a 160 was really discouraging. Aside from that, I could look towards the June test but that may be too soon? I appreciate all of the advice and encouragement that you guys are offering me as well. I only wish that I knew about TLS sooner.


I was in the exact same boat last year (25 then, 26 now), almost went to Cincinnati with $5k a year (LSAT was 162). Would have likely been a fucking nightmare.

What did you use for LSAT prep? The materials you use makes a enormous difference.

dcespedes
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Re: USF Law or Mcgeorge School of Law

Postby dcespedes » Thu May 03, 2012 3:51 pm

@timbs4339 I took a prep course through kaplan. It started roughly 3 months before the test but that last month i kicked it into high gear. My method was spending everyday on a different section. some days I would split 4 hours with one section, and another 4 with another. I did practice problems and then would do a timed section, go over it, and then usually do another one. On weekends I would do a practice test and then review to gauge my improvement. I thought that was an effective way to study and improve but my score only improved 2 points from my first score which led me to the conclusion that maybe that was just my limit lol.

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flem
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Re: USF Law or Mcgeorge School of Law

Postby flem » Thu May 03, 2012 3:51 pm

dcespedes wrote:Yeah you guys are really making me consider this retake lol. Its just that I dont want to waste anymore time. Im 25 now and I really dont want to wait another year before starting law school. If I was going to do a retake, I would have to take a different approach to it because 7-12 hours a day for a 160 was really discouraging. Aside from that, I could look towards the June test but that may be too soon? I appreciate all of the advice and encouragement that you guys are offering me as well. I only wish that I knew about TLS sooner.


Wait until October, make sure you can crush it. Just because you studied 7-12 hours a day doesn't mean you used your time wisely (in fact, I'm sure you didn't; and if you did, anyone would get burned out like that)

Would you rather wait a year, retake, and enjoy better options and be 29 when you finish? Or hurry up and go now and face 60/40 odds that you'll have 150K of debt and be unemployed at 28?

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flem
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Re: USF Law or Mcgeorge School of Law

Postby flem » Thu May 03, 2012 3:52 pm

dcespedes wrote:@timbs4339 I took a prep course through kaplan.


Didn't read past this. Kaplan is garbage.

Get the three logic games bibles from PowerScore. Self study with the help of the LSAT Prep forum plans. You'll thank me in a year. A PM will suffice. Good luck.




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