GW 30k vs Fordham 15k vs Emory 60k

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GokartMozart315
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GW 30k vs Fordham 15k vs Emory 60k

Postby GokartMozart315 » Thu May 03, 2012 8:46 am

I live in DC now, really like it, and want to practice here, but am from NYC, and would put it as a close second. I want biglaw, clerkship, or agency. The schollys listed are total for 3 years. Not retaking, and am still on the waitlist at Vandy and UCLA and reserve at Cornell.

Thoughts? Am seriously leaning GW because I really like it in DC, but wanted to throw this to the forum.

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flem
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Re: GW 30k vs Fordham 15k vs Emory 60k

Postby flem » Thu May 03, 2012 8:55 am

GokartMozart315 wrote:I live in DC now, really like it, and want to practice here, but am from NYC, and would put it as a close second. I want biglaw, clerkship, or agency. The schollys listed are total for 3 years. Not retaking, and am still on the waitlist at Vandy and UCLA and reserve at Cornell.

Thoughts? Am seriously leaning GW because I really like it in DC, but wanted to throw this to the forum.


Emory is out unless you want ATL and a crappier shot at biglaw.

Fordham gives you a decent shot (roughly 1/3) at NYC biglaw, same with GW. Both are expensive as shit at those prices. You're still looking at 150K worth of debt at GW and more than that at Fordham. There's a 2/3rds shot you're boned at the end.

Feeling lucky? Why so averse to a retake? I have a feeling if you're getting scholarships at schools in this range you're only a point or two away from being T14 secure.

09042014
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Re: GW 30k vs Fordham 15k vs Emory 60k

Postby 09042014 » Thu May 03, 2012 9:01 am

flem wrote:
GokartMozart315 wrote:I live in DC now, really like it, and want to practice here, but am from NYC, and would put it as a close second. I want biglaw, clerkship, or agency. The schollys listed are total for 3 years. Not retaking, and am still on the waitlist at Vandy and UCLA and reserve at Cornell.

Thoughts? Am seriously leaning GW because I really like it in DC, but wanted to throw this to the forum.


Emory is out unless you want ATL and a crappier shot at biglaw.

Fordham gives you a decent shot (roughly 1/3) at NYC biglaw, same with GW. Both are expensive as shit at those prices. You're still looking at 150K worth of debt at GW and more than that at Fordham. There's a 2/3rds shot you're boned at the end.

Feeling lucky? Why so averse to a retake? I have a feeling if you're getting scholarships at schools in this range you're only a point or two away from being T14 secure.


More like 20~25%

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flem
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Re: GW 30k vs Fordham 15k vs Emory 60k

Postby flem » Thu May 03, 2012 9:07 am

Desert Fox wrote:
More like 20~25%


Fair enough sir

GokartMozart315
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Re: GW 30k vs Fordham 15k vs Emory 60k

Postby GokartMozart315 » Thu May 03, 2012 9:29 am

so i won't have any debt when i graduate, but of course the money is still a small factor. as i said i'm going to law school this year, only took the test once in 08 and not considering a retake or a delay. stats are 3.4/167 so it's probably my gpa holding me back anyways.

honestly pretty mystified that i didn't get into vandy or one of the t14s, esp gtown.

a clarification question: is gw giving me a 25% shot at dc biglaw, ny, or both?

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Re: GW 30k vs Fordham 15k vs Emory 60k

Postby sky7 » Thu May 03, 2012 9:42 am

IP?

GokartMozart315
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Re: GW 30k vs Fordham 15k vs Emory 60k

Postby GokartMozart315 » Thu May 03, 2012 10:01 am

sky7 wrote:IP?


no, regulatory, antitrust, or financial services i'd say, though it's still pretty early

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Doorkeeper
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Re: GW 30k vs Fordham 15k vs Emory 60k

Postby Doorkeeper » Thu May 03, 2012 10:01 am

None of these are good deals. GW with only 30k is not good, but if you want DC then I guess you should pick there.

Honestly though, retake and reapply.

GokartMozart315
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Re: GW 30k vs Fordham 15k vs Emory 60k

Postby GokartMozart315 » Thu May 03, 2012 10:22 am

no retake/reapply suggestions please; i know i can just wait till im 50 and already making 200k to go to law school according to some of you, but that's not how i see it. choosing between these, constructive feedback really appreciated!

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flem
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Re: GW 30k vs Fordham 15k vs Emory 60k

Postby flem » Thu May 03, 2012 10:27 am

GokartMozart315 wrote:no retake/reapply suggestions please; i know i can just wait till im 50 and already making 200k to go to law school according to some of you, but that's not how i see it. choosing between these, constructive feedback really appreciated!


If you won't have any debt when you graduate, then go to whichever out of GW or Fordham that you prefer. Realistically, biglaw is going to be tough and clerkship chances negligible. These schools aren't a good fit for your goals.

If you're cool with making 40-60K or landing in midlaw somewhere with no debt (as I would be in this situation) then you're fine.

rad lulz
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Re: GW 30k vs Fordham 15k vs Emory 60k

Postby rad lulz » Thu May 03, 2012 10:32 am

GokartMozart315 wrote:no retake/reapply suggestions please; i know i can just wait till im 50 and already making 200k to go to law school according to some of you, but that's not how i see it. choosing between these, constructive feedback really appreciated!

If you want constructive feedback for your career goals but not "retake," then I have no advice.

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Re: GW 30k vs Fordham 15k vs Emory 60k

Postby GokartMozart315 » Thu May 03, 2012 10:35 am

flem wrote:
GokartMozart315 wrote:no retake/reapply suggestions please; i know i can just wait till im 50 and already making 200k to go to law school according to some of you, but that's not how i see it. choosing between these, constructive feedback really appreciated!


If you won't have any debt when you graduate, then go to whichever out of GW or Fordham that you prefer. Realistically, biglaw is going to be tough and clerkship chances negligible. These schools aren't a good fit for your goals.

If you're cool with making 40-60K or landing in midlaw somewhere with no debt (as I would be in this situation) then you're fine.



thanks man but these are schools, not arbitrage opportunities; i'm trying to pick the school that is best for my goals. i don't just want biglaw to pay off debt, i want it so i can make a lot of money and be a well-respected lawyer. i know there are a chunk of these at each school, and to be honest i feel far luckier than interested in a retake. i'd also likely aim to transfer after 1l but that's neither here nor there.

even with a full ride that would still be the goal. i wish i could get into schools that are good fits but i can't so need to make the best of less-than-ideal situation. any thoughts on the quality of the schools' respective placements, money aside?

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Re: GW 30k vs Fordham 15k vs Emory 60k

Postby flem » Thu May 03, 2012 10:39 am

GokartMozart315 wrote:

thanks man but these are schools, not arbitrage opportunities; i'm trying to pick the school that is best for my goals. i don't just want biglaw to pay off debt, i want it so i can make a lot of money and be a well-respected lawyer. i know there are a chunk of these at each school, and to be honest i feel far luckier than interested in a retake. i'd also likely aim to transfer after 1l but that's neither here nor there.

even with a full ride that would still be the goal. i wish i could get into schools that are good fits but i can't so need to make the best of less-than-ideal situation. any thoughts on the quality of the schools' respective placements, money aside?


Good luck to you then.

They're roughly peers in their respective markets. Pick the one you like better/market you want if cost is not a factor. Gun hard and pray to the deity of your choice to land in the top 25%.

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Re: GW 30k vs Fordham 15k vs Emory 60k

Postby rad lulz » Thu May 03, 2012 10:42 am

GokartMozart315 wrote:
flem wrote:
GokartMozart315 wrote:no retake/reapply suggestions please; i know i can just wait till im 50 and already making 200k to go to law school according to some of you, but that's not how i see it. choosing between these, constructive feedback really appreciated!


If you won't have any debt when you graduate, then go to whichever out of GW or Fordham that you prefer. Realistically, biglaw is going to be tough and clerkship chances negligible. These schools aren't a good fit for your goals.

If you're cool with making 40-60K or landing in midlaw somewhere with no debt (as I would be in this situation) then you're fine.



thanks man but these are schools, not arbitrage opportunities; i'm trying to pick the school that is best for my goals. i don't just want biglaw to pay off debt, i want it so i can make a lot of money and be a well-respected lawyer. i know there are a chunk of these at each school, and to be honest i feel far luckier than interested in a retake. i'd also likely aim to transfer after 1l but that's neither here nor there.

even with a full ride that would still be the goal. i wish i could get into schools that are good fits but i can't so need to make the best of less-than-ideal situation. any thoughts on the quality of the schools' respective placements, money aside?


They are all bad ideas for your goals at those prices. It's like asking someone to punch you in the best of 1) your groin, 2) your throat, 3) your appendix. They have their plusses and minuses, but just ask the dude not to punch you, aka retake and reapply.

GokartMozart315
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Re: GW 30k vs Fordham 15k vs Emory 60k

Postby GokartMozart315 » Thu May 03, 2012 10:49 am

rad lulz wrote:
GokartMozart315 wrote:
flem wrote:
GokartMozart315 wrote:no retake/reapply suggestions please; i know i can just wait till im 50 and already making 200k to go to law school according to some of you, but that's not how i see it. choosing between these, constructive feedback really appreciated!


If you won't have any debt when you graduate, then go to whichever out of GW or Fordham that you prefer. Realistically, biglaw is going to be tough and clerkship chances negligible. These schools aren't a good fit for your goals.

If you're cool with making 40-60K or landing in midlaw somewhere with no debt (as I would be in this situation) then you're fine.



thanks man but these are schools, not arbitrage opportunities; i'm trying to pick the school that is best for my goals. i don't just want biglaw to pay off debt, i want it so i can make a lot of money and be a well-respected lawyer. i know there are a chunk of these at each school, and to be honest i feel far luckier than interested in a retake. i'd also likely aim to transfer after 1l but that's neither here nor there.

even with a full ride that would still be the goal. i wish i could get into schools that are good fits but i can't so need to make the best of less-than-ideal situation. any thoughts on the quality of the schools' respective placements, money aside?


They are all bad ideas for your goals at those prices. It's like asking someone to punch you in the best of 1) your groin, 2) your throat, 3) your appendix. They have their plusses and minuses, but just ask the dude not to punch you, aka retake and reapply.



cmon it's not like im considering brooklyn and florida coastal...a little reality guys...

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Re: GW 30k vs Fordham 15k vs Emory 60k

Postby rad lulz » Thu May 03, 2012 10:49 am

Oh I just saw no debt. Go to Fordham + prayer. Biglaw probably won't happen. Also 90% chance you won't transfer. You also seem to have a pretty moronic idea of why you want big law/what it is, so I'd reevaluate that.

GokartMozart315
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Re: GW 30k vs Fordham 15k vs Emory 60k

Postby GokartMozart315 » Thu May 03, 2012 10:55 am

rad lulz wrote:Oh I just saw no debt. Go to Fordham + prayer. Biglaw probably won't happen. Also 90% chance you won't transfer. You also seem to have a pretty moronic idea of why you want big law/what it is, so I'd reevaluate that.


thanks, that's helpful. why so unlikely to transfer, seems like decent amount of lateral movement fordham/columbia or gw/gtown?

what do you think is a good reason to go to biglaw...? they make the most, have the biggest clients/most interesting work, and most flexibility for alumni. failing to see how that's moronic. unless you want to work for the gov or have a very small ego, failing to see any other desirable legal roles either

CanadianWolf
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Re: GW 30k vs Fordham 15k vs Emory 60k

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu May 03, 2012 10:55 am

OP: Consider the advice offered in a several posts by "rad luz". In my opinion, it gets to the heart of the realities in your situation.

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Re: GW 30k vs Fordham 15k vs Emory 60k

Postby bk1 » Thu May 03, 2012 10:56 am

GokartMozart315 wrote:to be honest i feel far luckier than interested in a retake.


Well if you're feeling lucky then that changes everything.

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flem
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Re: GW 30k vs Fordham 15k vs Emory 60k

Postby flem » Thu May 03, 2012 10:56 am

GokartMozart315 wrote:
thanks, that's helpful. why so unlikely to transfer, seems like decent amount of lateral movement fordham/columbia or gw/gtown?

what do you think is a good reason to go to biglaw...? they make the most, have the biggest clients/most interesting work, and most flexibility for alumni. failing to see how that's moronic. unless you want to work for the gov or have a very small ego, failing to see any other desirable legal roles either


You'd have to land in the top 10% to transfer most likely, and if you have transfer-worthy grades at these places you're likely close to biglaw secure anyway.

LOL @ the bolded

09042014
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Re: GW 30k vs Fordham 15k vs Emory 60k

Postby 09042014 » Thu May 03, 2012 10:59 am

DC big law is hard to get. I'm guess way less than 25% of GWU can get it. I think I'd still go GWU but be open to having to bid on firms outside of DC.

But 25% is pretty shitty odds.

You won't transfer because the moment you get grades good enough to transfer, you already have grades good enough to get big law. Transferring really has pretty limited career boosting benefits, especially when you are jumping from an already decent school in the same market.

CanadianWolf
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Re: GW 30k vs Fordham 15k vs Emory 60k

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu May 03, 2012 11:07 am

OP: Asking for advice regarding whether undertaking enormous debt/financial obligations at GWU or Fordham with unrealistic notions is like watching your child place his hands on a scortching hot stove because he's attracted to the color red.

Working for two years as a biglaw paralegal in either of your target cities should help clarify your understanding of biglaw, bigdebt & the realities of the legal world. As things stand now, retake the LSAT & reapply next cycle is the best advice that I can offer. Good luck !
Last edited by CanadianWolf on Thu May 03, 2012 11:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: GW 30k vs Fordham 15k vs Emory 60k

Postby timbs4339 » Thu May 03, 2012 11:10 am

GokartMozart315 wrote:
rad lulz wrote:Oh I just saw no debt. Go to Fordham + prayer. Biglaw probably won't happen. Also 90% chance you won't transfer. You also seem to have a pretty moronic idea of why you want big law/what it is, so I'd reevaluate that.


thanks, that's helpful. why so unlikely to transfer, seems like decent amount of lateral movement fordham/columbia or gw/gtown?

what do you think is a good reason to go to biglaw...? they make the most, have the biggest clients/most interesting work, and most flexibility for alumni. failing to see how that's moronic. unless you want to work for the gov or have a very small ego, failing to see any other desirable legal roles either


Because you are not likely to get biglaw.

GokartMozart315 wrote:
rad lulz wrote:Oh I just saw no debt. Go to Fordham + prayer. Biglaw probably won't happen. Also 90% chance you won't transfer. You also seem to have a pretty moronic idea of why you want big law/what it is, so I'd reevaluate that.


thanks, that's helpful. why so unlikely to transfer, seems like decent amount of lateral movement fordham/columbia or gw/gtown?

what do you think is a good reason to go to biglaw...? they make the most, have the biggest clients/most interesting work, and most flexibility for alumni. failing to see how that's moronic. unless you want to work for the gov or have a very small ego, failing to see any other desirable legal roles either


I go to Columbia and there is no "lateral movement," which would imply median Fordham students are coming uptown. My year we took probably a half dozen Fordham transfers and all were in top 10% including the #1 ranked person in the class. It's even lower odds than getting biglaw. And you'd be giving up your scholarship money before you even know if you have biglaw which would be a huge mistake.

It's going to be much harder to crack the top 25% at Fordham than it will be to retake and grab Cornell. But if you are okay with not having biglaw which is the likely outcome and have no debt I don't see why you can't roll the dice here.

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Samara
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Re: GW 30k vs Fordham 15k vs Emory 60k

Postby Samara » Thu May 03, 2012 11:11 am

GokartMozart315 wrote:cmon it's not like im considering brooklyn and florida coastal...a little reality guys...

Here's a little reality, bro. No, GW and Fordham aren't UDC and NYLS, but it's still brutal at T25 schools. There's a huge difference between T25 and T14. But I guess if you won't have debt (which makes the scholarships irrelevant) and refuse to retake, decide if you want DC or NYC more and pick between Fordham and GW accordingly.

GokartMozart315
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Re: GW 30k vs Fordham 15k vs Emory 60k

Postby GokartMozart315 » Thu May 03, 2012 11:16 am

Samara wrote:
GokartMozart315 wrote:cmon it's not like im considering brooklyn and florida coastal...a little reality guys...

Here's a little reality, bro. No, GW and Fordham aren't UDC and NYLS, but it's still brutal at T25 schools. There's a huge difference between T25 and T14. But I guess if you won't have debt (which makes the scholarships irrelevant) and refuse to retake, decide if you want DC or NYC more and pick between Fordham and GW accordingly.



damn samara that's quite the reality, though it really reinforces my decision to pick a school this cycle. with a 175 and a similar gpa you still couldn't pull schools that would be much better for my goals




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