Drexel$$$ vs. Villanova (sticker) vs. Pitt (sticker)

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Habeas Maximus
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Drexel$$$ vs. Villanova (sticker) vs. Pitt (sticker)

Postby Habeas Maximus » Wed May 02, 2012 1:49 pm

Details:

1) Want to work in/around Philadelphia after law school
2) Accepted to Nova, no $$$, out of state
3) Accepted to Drexel, full ride
4) Accepted to Pitt, no $$$, out of state, pessimistic about ability to work in Philly after law school
5) Scared to death of $100K+ debt from Villanova in lieu of LSAT/GPA scandal
6) Equally scared of job market + 30 yr. legal career w/ Drexel diploma
7) Interested in health law, impressed w/ Pitt's health law curriculum

What/How to choose? Not going to law school is not an option. Neither is Temple (at the current moment). Thoughts?

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flem
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Re: Drexel$$$ vs. Villanova (sticker) vs. Pitt (sticker)

Postby flem » Wed May 02, 2012 1:52 pm

GPA/LSAT? Career goals? Total cost of attendance at each?

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Nelson
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Re: Drexel$$$ vs. Villanova (sticker) vs. Pitt (sticker)

Postby Nelson » Wed May 02, 2012 1:53 pm

Retake. None of these schools are worth this kind of debt.

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Nova
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Re: Drexel$$$ vs. Villanova (sticker) vs. Pitt (sticker)

Postby Nova » Wed May 02, 2012 2:38 pm

Habeas Maximus wrote:Details:
Not going to law school is not an option. Thoughts?


You should go to law school if you want, just not this year with your current choices.

I know, I know, you really want to go now. So do I. But I'm still considering sitting out a year for better options.

Probably like you, everyone I know IRL expects me to go this year, and I'm sure all your friends and family are cheering you on. They will all be scratching their heads ( :| ) and likely wont understand sitting out a year to retake. But seriously, don't jump off a cliff and go to Pitt at sticker (your best choice).

Nelson wrote:Retake. None of these schools are worth this kind of debt.


^^^

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jenesaislaw
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Re: Drexel$$$ vs. Villanova (sticker) vs. Pitt (sticker)

Postby jenesaislaw » Wed May 02, 2012 2:47 pm

flem wrote:GPA/LSAT? Career goals? Total cost of attendance at each?


Pitt projected cost for class of 2015 at sticker via debt-financing: 195k
Villanova: 208k
Drexel: 186k (would need to reduce the amount by the scholarship discount)

Source: --LinkRemoved--

This is not merely "$100k+ debt."

Habeas Maximus
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Re: Drexel$$$ vs. Villanova (sticker) vs. Pitt (sticker)

Postby Habeas Maximus » Wed May 02, 2012 2:50 pm

tflem - GPA/LSAT puts me at roughly the 25% mark for Temple. Dream job would be to work in compliance for a healthcare-oriented law firm or company, though understand this may not be possible right out of law school...perhaps not even within the first decade. Other interests include city/state/federal governments, also in compliance. Additionally, like any aspiring lawyer/law student, definitely entertaining the idea of applying to summer DA programs in PA. City of Philadelphia's 1st year summer program takes 35 unpaid interns. Understand the competitive nature, though am willing to give it the cliche college try. Most important goal is to be a lawyer, and I need law school to learn how to litigate.

Drexel: Total COA = $12K/yr. (living expense)
Pitt: Total COA = $52K/yr.
Nova: Total COA = $52K/yr. (living expense minimal from living w/ relatives)


Nelson/Nova - What isn't worth it for most might be worth it for some. I have employment options outside of law if I can't find a job straight out, so the risk might not as high for me. I'm a little concerned that I won't see significant improvement in LSAT score with retake (would be 3rd try).

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flem
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Re: Drexel$$$ vs. Villanova (sticker) vs. Pitt (sticker)

Postby flem » Wed May 02, 2012 2:52 pm

Are you financing this all with debt? Because if so that is completely insane considering the bottom of these classes don't even find legal jobs, let alone jobs that would allow you to service 200K in debt.

Habeas Maximus
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Re: Drexel$$$ vs. Villanova (sticker) vs. Pitt (sticker)

Postby Habeas Maximus » Wed May 02, 2012 2:55 pm

It would probably be something like 70/30 or 60/40, debt to personal finance ratio.

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flem
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Re: Drexel$$$ vs. Villanova (sticker) vs. Pitt (sticker)

Postby flem » Wed May 02, 2012 2:57 pm

Habeas Maximus wrote:It would probably be something like 70/30 or 60/40, debt to personal finance ratio.


So calculate your total cost of attendance - IE, the debt you would take on, and tell us what that is. Don't forget compounding interest at roughly 7.5% a year.

If this ends up being over like, 80K, don't go.

Habeas Maximus
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Re: Drexel$$$ vs. Villanova (sticker) vs. Pitt (sticker)

Postby Habeas Maximus » Wed May 02, 2012 3:02 pm

flem wrote:
Habeas Maximus wrote:It would probably be something like 70/30 or 60/40, debt to personal finance ratio.


So calculate your total cost of attendance - IE, the debt you would take on, and tell us what that is. Don't forget compounding interest at roughly 7.5% a year.

If this ends up being over like, 80K, don't go.

Ha, have to chuckle here. $80K - that's the same figure Virginia Foxx gave when she said she had no tolerance for people with student debt.

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flem
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Re: Drexel$$$ vs. Villanova (sticker) vs. Pitt (sticker)

Postby flem » Wed May 02, 2012 3:03 pm

Habeas Maximus wrote:Ha, have to chuckle here. $80K - that's the same figure Virginia Foxx gave when she said she had no tolerance for people with student debt.


It's roughly a standard benchmark for the amount of debt you would be able to repay in a 10 year period on a 40-60K small firm salary without living in abject poverty.

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Nelson
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Re: Drexel$$$ vs. Villanova (sticker) vs. Pitt (sticker)

Postby Nelson » Wed May 02, 2012 3:05 pm

I wouldn't attend Villanova or Temple without close to a full ride and Drexel isn't worth three years of your life.

Habeas Maximus
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Re: Drexel$$$ vs. Villanova (sticker) vs. Pitt (sticker)

Postby Habeas Maximus » Wed May 02, 2012 3:09 pm

flem wrote:
Habeas Maximus wrote:Ha, have to chuckle here. $80K - that's the same figure Virginia Foxx gave when she said she had no tolerance for people with student debt.


It's roughly a standard benchmark for the amount of debt you would be able to repay in a 10 year period on a 40-60K small firm salary without living in abject poverty.

That sounds about right. I don't have my law school loan calculator handy, but any insight on what a monthly payment would like at $80K after three years? $100K $120K? I think I tried $150K at some point and got something around $1200-$1300/mo.

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Nova
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Re: Drexel$$$ vs. Villanova (sticker) vs. Pitt (sticker)

Postby Nova » Wed May 02, 2012 3:14 pm

Habeas Maximus wrote:
Nelson/Nova - What isn't worth it for most might be worth it for some. I have employment options outside of law if I can't find a job straight out, so the risk might not as high for me. I'm a little concerned that I won't see significant improvement in LSAT score with retake (would be 3rd try).


Sure. But if you could put yourself in a better position, why not? The LSAT is beatable. Extreme effort alone can basically pull anyone up to ~160.

If you are really set on going, go to Pitt. Just know tens of thousands of law students are getting a better deal and that retaking for 100 bucks and some time could save you tens of thousands of dollars. June is in a month. Give it a shot. A few point increase could possibly get you some money at Pitt this year.

Habeas Maximus
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Re: Drexel$$$ vs. Villanova (sticker) vs. Pitt (sticker)

Postby Habeas Maximus » Wed May 02, 2012 3:22 pm

Nova wrote:
Habeas Maximus wrote:
Nelson/Nova - What isn't worth it for most might be worth it for some. I have employment options outside of law if I can't find a job straight out, so the risk might not as high for me. I'm a little concerned that I won't see significant improvement in LSAT score with retake (would be 3rd try).


Sure. But if you could put yourself in a better position, why not? The LSAT is beatable. Extreme effort alone can basically pull anyone up to ~160.

If you are really set on going, go to Pitt. Just know tens of thousands of law students are getting a better deal and that retaking for 100 bucks and some time could save you tens of thousands of dollars. June is in a month. Give it a shot. A few point increase could possibly get you some money at Pitt this year.

I've definitely considered a retake in June, though I'd have to register quickly. Can a law school rescind an offer if they see a decrease in score? What about an absolute bomb? Important factor: schools where you are on the waiting list.

Also, good/bad idea: contacting the law school's financial aid office after being accepted and talking about a retake...thoughts?

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Nova
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Re: Drexel$$$ vs. Villanova (sticker) vs. Pitt (sticker)

Postby Nova » Wed May 02, 2012 3:33 pm

Habeas Maximus wrote:
Nova wrote:
Habeas Maximus wrote:
Nelson/Nova - What isn't worth it for most might be worth it for some. I have employment options outside of law if I can't find a job straight out, so the risk might not as high for me. I'm a little concerned that I won't see significant improvement in LSAT score with retake (would be 3rd try).


Sure. But if you could put yourself in a better position, why not? The LSAT is beatable. Extreme effort alone can basically pull anyone up to ~160.

If you are really set on going, go to Pitt. Just know tens of thousands of law students are getting a better deal and that retaking for 100 bucks and some time could save you tens of thousands of dollars. June is in a month. Give it a shot. A few point increase could possibly get you some money at Pitt this year.

I've definitely considered a retake in June, though I'd have to register quickly. Can a law school rescind an offer if they see a decrease in score? What about an absolute bomb? Important factor: schools where you are on the waiting list.

Also, good/bad idea: contacting the law school's financial aid office after being accepted and talking about a retake...thoughts?


I def think you should retake in June. You have about a week to decide. No, they will not Rescind your offer. I have NEVER heard of that happening in all my years of internet glory, even if you bomb (which you wont! believe in yourself!). It is possible to get off WL with retakes. It is also possible to increase scholly offers. It is certainly not a sure thing of course.


I would vote indifferent. If you want to let them know, go ahead and they might give you some relevent info. I am not telling my school I am retaking though. It is not requiered. I will let them know right away if I get a higher score. If my score does not improve, I will not bring it up.

I really believe you have nothing to lose.

Habeas Maximus
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Re: Drexel$$$ vs. Villanova (sticker) vs. Pitt (sticker)

Postby Habeas Maximus » Wed May 02, 2012 3:42 pm

Nova wrote:
Habeas Maximus wrote:
Nova wrote:
Habeas Maximus wrote:
Nelson/Nova - What isn't worth it for most might be worth it for some. I have employment options outside of law if I can't find a job straight out, so the risk might not as high for me. I'm a little concerned that I won't see significant improvement in LSAT score with retake (would be 3rd try).


Sure. But if you could put yourself in a better position, why not? The LSAT is beatable. Extreme effort alone can basically pull anyone up to ~160.

If you are really set on going, go to Pitt. Just know tens of thousands of law students are getting a better deal and that retaking for 100 bucks and some time could save you tens of thousands of dollars. June is in a month. Give it a shot. A few point increase could possibly get you some money at Pitt this year.

I've definitely considered a retake in June, though I'd have to register quickly. Can a law school rescind an offer if they see a decrease in score? What about an absolute bomb? Important factor: schools where you are on the waiting list.

Also, good/bad idea: contacting the law school's financial aid office after being accepted and talking about a retake...thoughts?


I def think you should retake in June. You have about a week to decide. No, they will not Rescind your offer. I have NEVER heard of that happening in all my years of internet glory, even if you bomb (which you wont! believe in yourself!). It is possible to get off WL with retakes. It is also possible to increase scholly offers. It is certainly not a sure thing of course.


I would vote indifferent. If you want to let them know, go ahead and they might give you some relevent info. I am not telling my school I am retaking though. It is not requiered. I will let them know right away if I get a higher score. If my score does not improve, I will not bring it up.

I really believe you have nothing to lose.

Interesting thought. I'm currently in the 160 range (+/-), though it took me several months to get there. Have scored in the low/mid 160s on various practice tests, but it was after already seeing several questions in practice. I didn't get any sleep the night before my second take, so I can't help but wonder how much that hurt my performance...

tarp
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Re: Drexel$$$ vs. Villanova (sticker) vs. Pitt (sticker)

Postby tarp » Wed May 02, 2012 4:18 pm

Drexel has a health law concentration, FWIW.

I just finished three years at Drexel. I was awarded close to a full ride. My stipulations weren't bad (basically top half) and I ended up doing very well anyway. You would want to make sure the stipulations for retention of the scholarship are not too difficult.

The hiring market is abysmal right now, with lots of law review types with good grades unable to find legal employment. However, I hear the same types of reports from Temple and Villanova students.

If you are going to law school to find immediate employment, now's not the time. If you just want a law degree and plan to find other employment, or start your own firm, or you have some connections that will help you land employment, then go for it. I enjoyed my three years at Drexel. It's an excellent law school with some very good professors and great co-op/clinical opportunities. Right now, however, the legal hiring market is so tight that you will need to attend a "top" school to find a good firm or government job. Your Drexel, or Temple, or Villanova degree is probably useless for finding employment until the economy improves.

If you have nothing better to do, go to Drexel and get the degree for free. That's what I did. I was lucky enough to have support from family to help me manage my expenses for these three years, and I wasn't getting any younger - it was either go to law school now, or probably never go to law school in the future.

SLim1124
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Re: Drexel$$$ vs. Villanova (sticker) vs. Pitt (sticker)

Postby SLim1124 » Wed May 02, 2012 4:37 pm

Habeas Maximus wrote:

I've definitely considered a retake in June, though I'd have to register quickly. Can a law school rescind an offer if they see a decrease in score? What about an absolute bomb? Important factor: schools where you are on the waiting list.[/quote]

Can anyone speak to this? If you retake in June but get a lower score, will schools at which you're on the waitlist see it? Obviously I wouldn't send my LSAC report again if I score lower.




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