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Mista Bojangles
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Re: HLS breaking my heart; help me plan

Postby Mista Bojangles » Wed May 02, 2012 9:04 pm

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Mista Bojangles
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Re: HLS breaking my heart; help me plan

Postby Mista Bojangles » Wed May 02, 2012 9:15 pm

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Mista Bojangles
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Re: HLS breaking my heart; help me plan

Postby Mista Bojangles » Wed May 02, 2012 9:29 pm

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chasgoose
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Re: HLS breaking my heart; help me plan

Postby chasgoose » Wed May 02, 2012 10:04 pm

Mista Bojangles wrote:
lonerider wrote:1) Go to Chicago
2) Get good grades.
3) Transfer to Harvard

if you couldn't pull out the grades and are denied a transfer, sorry bud you're not cut out for HLS. If you do manage to transfer, then you have all of 2nd and 3rd year to take the electives related to the niche field you are interested in. And when you are in interviews and they ask why you would transfer from Chi to HLS, you have a serious and compelling reason for them.



I don't think it'd be smart for me to go to Chicago only with the specific goal of transferring to H. I don't even know what kind of 1L grades you'd need at Chicago to transfer to H (like top 15%? wild guess), but there's no way I'd try to bank on hitting that. I also don't think the bolded is true. I'd definitely bet that if you took a random HLS 1L and put him in Chicago for his 1L year, odds are well against his finishing with grades good enough to transfer to H. If you agree with that assertion, then you should agree that if you can't make HLS transfer-worthy grades at Chicago, that's far from meaning you simply are "not cut out for HLS."


The thing about the advantages HLS has over Chicago, however, is that the specific doors that HLS can open that a CCN student can't are really going to only be available to the type of person who performs extremely well 1L year. If you don't want to bank on getting the kind of grades that would enable you to transfer from Chicago to Harvard, there really isn't going to be that much more HLS can get you that Chicago couldn't. If you aren't in the top 10%, the advantages HLS offers over Chicago are of degree, not of type. At that point, HLS will get you a slightly higher ranked firm or a slightly better non-feeder clerkship, but not the sort of jobs that you could only get with an HLS degree. The career you want may be only available to those with an HLS or equivalent degree, but if you don't get top top grades, you aren't going to have access to it anyways. Unless you think you can be at that level, the only point of trying again for HLS is for slightly better jobs, which doesn't seem worth it.

That said, based on your numbers, and even with your 2 failed attempts at admission, I still think you have a better shot of getting into HLS by applying again than by going to Chicago and transferring.

EdgarWinter
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Re: HLS breaking my heart; help me plan

Postby EdgarWinter » Wed May 02, 2012 11:11 pm

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r6_philly
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Re: HLS breaking my heart; help me plan

Postby r6_philly » Wed May 02, 2012 11:36 pm

How about you joint degree with C/C and Kennedy, if you want the Harvard brand so bad. It's not like you will get a completely different legal education from Harvard, so if it's the brand you want, then just get it another way.

If you must have a JD from Harvard, then stick it out, and don't reapply to CCN. I am a little confused why you worry about what CCN thinks of you next year if you do not want to go anyway. If you get rejected again this year, I would personally reach out to the dean, and have a candid talk about why you want to go to HLS and what do you need to do get in. Keep wagering a year of your life on unknown odds is not a smart decision.

There are always other ways to reach your destination. If the straight path is blocked, make a couple/few earnest tries, but do so realizing that if you have what it takes to get to the other side, nothing will be able to stop you.

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lonerider
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Re: HLS breaking my heart; help me plan

Postby lonerider » Wed May 02, 2012 11:49 pm

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Mista Bojangles
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Re: HLS breaking my heart; help me plan

Postby Mista Bojangles » Thu May 03, 2012 3:28 am

EdgarWinter wrote:You sound a little nuts tbh. Don't know if I want you gunning at Chicago

Sup Ed. Nuts, might be guilty as charged. But I am no gunner, and that's not about to change in law school, so you're safe on that front.
Last edited by Mista Bojangles on Fri May 04, 2012 6:05 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Mista Bojangles
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Re: HLS breaking my heart; help me plan

Postby Mista Bojangles » Thu May 03, 2012 3:32 am

Anyway, thanks for all the input everyone - I read and appreciated every piece of advice in this thread. Will take a little time to reflect, but I do think I already know what the right decision is. Ideally, I'll get in off the WL and this will all have been moot - but obviously I need to start preparing in one direction or the other, well in advance of the date I might have a final WL answer. So this thread's advice has been a big help.

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bernaldiaz
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Re: HLS breaking my heart; help me plan

Postby bernaldiaz » Thu May 03, 2012 4:07 am

Mista Bojangles wrote:
EdgarWinter wrote:You sound a little nuts tbh. Don't know if I want you gunning at Chicago

Sup Ed. Nuts, might be guilty as charged. But I am no gunner, and that's not about to change in law school, so you're safe on that front.

EdgarWinter wrote:If you do reapply try to write a better PS or get better recs or something because there are literally zero applicants to Harvard with 178+/3.8+ on LSN who have not gotten in--something in your app is probably screwing you.

For what it's worth, I felt really good about my PS and recs, and I figure that if I did have any kind of serious hole in my application, I wouldn't have gotten $$$ at all of CCN. If there was anything significantly "off" about my application, I bet it would have scared at least one of CCN away from offering me $$, or even from admitting me at all. It seems like HLS, actually, is the odd man out with regard to the way schools have received my app.


Really? You can't see one glaring hole/ red flag that the most elite schools, who can have a little more leniency with the numbers for their admitted students, might want to avoid?

Mista Bojangles
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Re: HLS breaking my heart; help me plan

Postby Mista Bojangles » Thu May 03, 2012 4:17 am

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Lawl Shcool
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Re: HLS breaking my heart; help me plan

Postby Lawl Shcool » Thu May 03, 2012 4:19 am

this thread is brutal to read, seriously regret reading it.

OP - you want Harvard, nothing else is going to fill that hole in you. This may not be the most rational or prudent option at this very moment but it is clear that it is your end goal, so go get it. Apply day 1 next cycle with better essays, if you don't get in, go after it next year. Your GPA and LSAT can't get any better - eventually you will get in. /endthread

keg411
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Re: HLS breaking my heart; help me plan

Postby keg411 » Thu May 03, 2012 8:32 am

Lawl Shcool wrote:this thread is brutal to read, seriously regret reading it.

OP - you want Harvard, nothing else is going to fill that hole in you. This may not be the most rational or prudent option at this very moment but it is clear that it is your end goal, so go get it. Apply day 1 next cycle with better essays, if you don't get in, go after it next year. Your GPA and LSAT can't get any better - eventually you will get in. /endthread


See, I have the exact opposite feeling: OP, take Chicago, do BigLaw like everyone else, and find some professor interested in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict and work on some type of journal note/article with him/her during law school and maybe do something 1L summer that's sort of related.

I get that your numbers are great and the WL sucks, but it just looks like Harvard isn't happening and it probably won't happen on a third try. Sometimes things happen for a reason and you may end up doing great at Chicago and loving it (and yes, I just said that with a straight face... about Chicago :lol:).

chasgoose
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Re: HLS breaking my heart; help me plan

Postby chasgoose » Thu May 03, 2012 9:55 am

Mista Bojangles wrote:
bernaldiaz wrote:
Mista Bojangles wrote:
EdgarWinter wrote:You sound a little nuts tbh. Don't know if I want you gunning at Chicago

Sup Ed. Nuts, might be guilty as charged. But I am no gunner, and that's not about to change in law school, so you're safe on that front.

EdgarWinter wrote:If you do reapply try to write a better PS or get better recs or something because there are literally zero applicants to Harvard with 178+/3.8+ on LSN who have not gotten in--something in your app is probably screwing you.

For what it's worth, I felt really good about my PS and recs, and I figure that if I did have any kind of serious hole in my application, I wouldn't have gotten $$$ at all of CCN. If there was anything significantly "off" about my application, I bet it would have scared at least one of CCN away from offering me $$, or even from admitting me at all. It seems like HLS, actually, is the odd man out with regard to the way schools have received my app.


Really? You can't see one glaring hole/ red flag that the most elite schools, who can have a little more leniency with the numbers for their admitted students, might want to avoid?


I took a lot of classes pass/fail in undergrad, does that count as a red flag? At my school it was the norm and I never thought twice about it until I got to TLS. Honestly if not that, I have a hard time thinking of anything I'd call "glaring." I guess there's always the possibility a professor threw me under the bus in an LOR, but I had good relationships with all my LOR writers and would be shocked if that ended up being the case.


So you went to Brown. From my experience, GPA's from there get slightly undervalued because of the pass/fail and the lack of +/-

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Doorkeeper
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Re: HLS breaking my heart; help me plan

Postby Doorkeeper » Thu May 03, 2012 10:06 am

Mista Bojangles wrote:For what it's worth, I felt really good about my PS and recs, and I figure that if I did have any kind of serious hole in my application, I wouldn't have gotten $$$ at all of CCN. If there was anything significantly "off" about my application, I bet it would have scared at least one of CCN away from offering me $$, or even from admitting me at all. It seems like HLS, actually, is the odd man out with regard to the way schools have received my app.

My numbers weren't as good as yours and I got $ at all of CCN. Something is wrong with your application. You need to have someone who you're close to review all of your materials. Perhaps you come off as arrogant, or particularly ideological in a negative way, in your personal statement? Maybe one of your LORs isn't very good? There's something holding you back because 9 times out of 10 a 179/3.8 is getting into Harvard, or is getting a Hamilton or Ruby.

Mista Bojangles wrote:I took a lot of classes pass/fail in undergrad, does that count as a red flag? At my school it was the norm and I never thought twice about it until I got to TLS.

Harvard explicitly does not like excessive use of pass/fail. This could help explain it.

chasgoose wrote:So you went to Brown. From my experience, GPA's from there get slightly undervalued because of the pass/fail and the lack of +/-

Many universities have pass/fails options for UG classes...

GokartMozart315
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Re: HLS breaking my heart; help me plan

Postby GokartMozart315 » Thu May 03, 2012 11:09 am

although i suspect chicago has the potential to work for you op, your desire to go to hls to make it big in israel makes a lot of sense.

without getting into your identity any further, might you have graduated penn with me back in 09...?

Mista Bojangles
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Re: HLS breaking my heart; help me plan

Postby Mista Bojangles » Thu May 03, 2012 12:34 pm

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Last edited by Mista Bojangles on Fri May 04, 2012 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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jessedvhs
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Re: HLS breaking my heart; help me plan

Postby jessedvhs » Thu May 03, 2012 12:58 pm

It must have been the Israeli Army instead of US Army soft that did you in--like an Andy Ritcher sidekick to host Conan O'Brien.

With a 3.8/179 and no acceptance to HLS by this point, maybe you should take the perspective that the HLS doesn't truly appreciate you as a "must admit" individual & what you have done & you would have a better experience elsewhere.

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IAFG
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Re: HLS breaking my heart; help me plan

Postby IAFG » Thu May 03, 2012 1:05 pm

jessedvhs wrote:It must have been the Israeli Army instead of US Army soft that did you in--like an Andy Ritcher sidekick to host Conan O'Brien.

With a 3.8/179 and no acceptance to HLS by this point, maybe you should take the perspective that the HLS doesn't truly appreciate you as a "must admit" individual & what you have done & you would have a better experience elsewhere.

Wow. That's ridiculous. Your experience at LS has nothing to do with what the admissions office thought of you.

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Indifferent
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Re: HLS breaking my heart; help me plan

Postby Indifferent » Thu May 03, 2012 1:08 pm

/eye roll

bleepbloop
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Re: HLS breaking my heart; help me plan

Postby bleepbloop » Thu May 03, 2012 1:16 pm

chasgoose wrote:
So you went to Brown. From my experience, GPA's from there get slightly undervalued because of the pass/fail and the lack of +/-


Please, please, please don't say something like this if you actually don't know what you're talking about...

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jessedvhs
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Re: HLS breaking my heart; help me plan

Postby jessedvhs » Thu May 03, 2012 1:22 pm

IAFG wrote:
jessedvhs wrote:It must have been the Israeli Army instead of US Army soft that did you in--like an Andy Ritcher sidekick to host Conan O'Brien.

With a 3.8/179 and no acceptance to HLS by this point, maybe you should take the perspective that the HLS doesn't truly appreciate you as a "must admit" individual & what you have done & you would have a better experience elsewhere.

Wow. That's ridiculous. Your experience at LS has nothing to do with what the admissions office thought of you.


Experience at LS? We're talking about this man as a 0L applicant. He applied twice to HLS and they still WL'ed his ass. This is despite of phenomenal numbers and a unique experience serving with a foreign unit in a combat zone (language barrier aside). So either his resume/PS looks like a 5 year old wrote it or HLS doesn't fully value his unique diversity as a potential student in their ranks and should take a walk.

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bernaldiaz
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Re: HLS breaking my heart; help me plan

Postby bernaldiaz » Thu May 03, 2012 3:34 pm

Mista Bojangles wrote:
Really? You can't see one glaring hole/ red flag that the most elite schools, who can have a little more leniency with the numbers for their admitted students, might want to avoid?


I took a lot of classes pass/fail in undergrad, does that count as a red flag? At my school it was the norm and I never thought twice about it until I got to TLS. Honestly if not that, I have a hard time thinking of anything I'd call "glaring." I guess there's always the possibility a professor threw me under the bus in an LOR, but I had good relationships with all my LOR writers and would be shocked if that ended up being the case.


Idk, I think if an adcomm saw that American citizen went and volunteered in the Israeli army for two years might be weary to admit that person. That's a pretty charged issue and maybe they don't want to admit someone who think might be controversial on campus. I was under the belief that you wanted to avoid politicizing your application (stuff like writing a PS about how you want to be a lawyer so you can fight abortion legislation). I feel like joining the Israeli army would be like writing an anti-abortion PS but multiplied many times in intensity, since you actually went and committed your life to it for two years.

That was my first thought anyways. I'm thinking that since no one else said anything to this regard that I am totally wrong.

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IAFG
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Re: HLS breaking my heart; help me plan

Postby IAFG » Thu May 03, 2012 3:48 pm

jessedvhs wrote:
IAFG wrote:
jessedvhs wrote:It must have been the Israeli Army instead of US Army soft that did you in--like an Andy Ritcher sidekick to host Conan O'Brien.

With a 3.8/179 and no acceptance to HLS by this point, maybe you should take the perspective that the HLS doesn't truly appreciate you as a "must admit" individual & what you have done & you would have a better experience elsewhere.

Wow. That's ridiculous. Your experience at LS has nothing to do with what the admissions office thought of you.


Experience at LS? We're talking about this man as a 0L applicant. He applied twice to HLS and they still WL'ed his ass. This is despite of phenomenal numbers and a unique experience serving with a foreign unit in a combat zone (language barrier aside). So either his resume/PS looks like a 5 year old wrote it or HLS doesn't fully value his unique diversity as a potential student in their ranks and should take a walk.

So by "better experience" you mean admission experience?

I'm gonna guess the problem is his JR1 went poorly and not that HLS is failing to "appreciate" and "value" him properly.

AtticusJimbo
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Re: HLS breaking my heart; help me plan

Postby AtticusJimbo » Thu May 03, 2012 6:51 pm

IAFG wrote:
I'm gonna guess the problem is his JR1 went poorly and not that HLS is failing to "appreciate" and "value" him properly.


IMO a poor interview can't explain everything. Clearly a November JR1 meant they were strongly considering him, but if he really blew the interview in 2009, sure maybe that's what landed him on the WL in that cycle. But this is a new cycle two years later - do you really think they'd hold a bad 2009-2010 JR1 against him in 2011-2012? Unless he told JR1 in his interview that he likes to piss on homeless people in his free time. I just don't think it's realistic that a bad interview in JR1 would sink him not only for that cycle but for another one two cycles later.




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