UCLA (Total CoA ~ 50k) vs. Michigan (Total CoA ~ 150K)

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Is Michigan worth 100k more than UCLA?

Poll ended at Sun May 06, 2012 12:29 pm

UCLA (Total COA ~ 50k)
15
42%
Michigan (Total CoA ~ 150K)
21
58%
 
Total votes: 36

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Doorkeeper
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Re: UCLA (Total CoA ~ 50k) vs. Michigan (Total CoA ~ 150K)

Postby Doorkeeper » Tue May 01, 2012 2:21 pm

Paul Campos wrote:
Doorkeeper wrote:
Paul Campos wrote:Seriously?

I don't really see what the problem is here. Care to elaborate instead of just being snarky?


The problem is that the way you frame this makes it sound as if in a typical year only about 17 UMLS grads (from all graduating classes) would like to get a tenure-track academic job, and that 30% succeed. That's what a 30% placement rate would normally mean -- three out of ten people who want that kind of job get it. In fact the number of applicants reflects the fact that only a tiny percentage of UMLS grads have a shot at a tenure track position. This factor shouldn't really be a consideration for somebody in the OP's situation.

Law schools cannot stop their graduates from applying on the academic market. They can discourage them all they want, or tell them that they're not ready yet, etc, etc, but they have no formal powers to stop any potential candidate from seeking academic employment. I understand this statistic is not normal compared to most percentages thrown around in TLS, but I fail to see how this makes it less informative once that consideration is kept in mind. This statistic only looses relevance if it loses relation to the amount of law school graduates who pursue academia is not related to the amount who apply for academia. This is not the case.

SaintFond
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Re: UCLA (Total CoA ~ 50k) vs. Michigan (Total CoA ~ 150K)

Postby SaintFond » Tue May 01, 2012 2:58 pm

I would not pass up full ride at UCLA to go into major debt at a T10. Even given your interests.

Another way to think of it: having a huge debt means you HAVE to get that high paying BigLaw job for at least a few years to pay it off. By contrast, a small debt means you can dink around and do your little PI stuff if you still want to.

I probably wouldn't pass up a full ride at UCLA for anything less than T5, maybe T4.

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Nelson
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Re: UCLA (Total CoA ~ 50k) vs. Michigan (Total CoA ~ 150K)

Postby Nelson » Tue May 01, 2012 3:01 pm

SaintFond wrote:I would not pass up full ride at UCLA to go into major debt at a T10. Even given your interests.

Another way to think of it: having a huge debt means you HAVE to get that high paying BigLaw job for at least a few years to pay it off. By contrast, a small debt means you can dink around and do your little PI stuff if you still want to.

I probably wouldn't pass up a full ride at UCLA for anything less than T5, maybe T4.

T5 ain't a thing and T4 definitely ain't. I wouldn't go to UCLA period if I wanted to work on the east coast.

SaintFond
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Re: UCLA (Total CoA ~ 50k) vs. Michigan (Total CoA ~ 150K)

Postby SaintFond » Tue May 01, 2012 3:09 pm

Nelson wrote:
SaintFond wrote:I would not pass up full ride at UCLA to go into major debt at a T10. Even given your interests.

Another way to think of it: having a huge debt means you HAVE to get that high paying BigLaw job for at least a few years to pay it off. By contrast, a small debt means you can dink around and do your little PI stuff if you still want to.

I probably wouldn't pass up a full ride at UCLA for anything less than T5, maybe T4.

T5 ain't a thing and T4 definitely ain't. I wouldn't go to UCLA period if I wanted to work on the east coast.


It's not an official subtier, no, but if you go to, say, Columbia, your chances of getting a good job are very high. However, if you want, let's just say that full ride at UCLA is preferable to big debt at anything outside T6.

Regardless, none of the factors the OP has listed are weighty enough to make Mich the better choice. I don't know why somebody would go into like 150K debt to do PI stuff or just because he prefers the East Coast. Besides, if he places really well at UCLA--which he has a good chance of doing, given that his ratio warranted a full ride at UCLA--his degree will be portable enough for him to find work on the East Coast.

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The Rover
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Re: UCLA (Total CoA ~ 50k) vs. Michigan (Total CoA ~ 150K)

Postby The Rover » Tue May 01, 2012 6:37 pm

f0bolous wrote:
The Rover wrote:Are these your only two options?


i don't get the point of this question. OP's got a full ride at UCLA and a decent scholly at Mich. There really isn't an "in between" or an alternative that would be more attractive at this point.


OP wants east coast and doesn't want biglaw. Wouldn't any of the lower T14 with significant scholly be better options?

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bk1
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Re: UCLA (Total CoA ~ 50k) vs. Michigan (Total CoA ~ 150K)

Postby bk1 » Tue May 01, 2012 6:46 pm

The Rover wrote:OP wants east coast and doesn't want biglaw. Wouldn't any of the lower T14 with significant scholly be better options?

The problem is that "lower T14 with significant scholly" isn't between UMich with small scholly and UCLA with huge scholly. If OP got only a small scholarship at UMich, it is unlikely that he got a significant scholly to a lower T14. The problem with UMich isn't its east coast reach (which is fine), it is the cost in comparison to what UCLA costs.

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The Rover
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Re: UCLA (Total CoA ~ 50k) vs. Michigan (Total CoA ~ 150K)

Postby The Rover » Tue May 01, 2012 6:50 pm

bk1 wrote:
The Rover wrote:OP wants east coast and doesn't want biglaw. Wouldn't any of the lower T14 with significant scholly be better options?

The problem is that "lower T14 with significant scholly" isn't between UMich with small scholly and UCLA with huge scholly. If OP got only a small scholarship at UMich, it is unlikely that he got a significant scholly to a lower T14. The problem with UMich isn't its east coast reach (which is fine), it is the cost in comparison to what UCLA costs.


The OP wants east coast comment was in reference to UCLA, not UMich. It just seems to me like neither option is outstanding given OP's goals so I was just asking if there was anything else on the table.

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bk1
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Re: UCLA (Total CoA ~ 50k) vs. Michigan (Total CoA ~ 150K)

Postby bk1 » Tue May 01, 2012 6:52 pm

The Rover wrote:The OP wants east coast comment was in reference to UCLA, not UMich. It just seems to me like neither option is outstanding given OP's goals so I was just asking if there was anything else on the table.


f0b's comment was that while there are options that are better, OP likely does not have those options.

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anon2015
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Re: UCLA (Total CoA ~ 50k) vs. Michigan (Total CoA ~ 150K)

Postby anon2015 » Tue May 01, 2012 7:11 pm

bk1 wrote:
anon2015 wrote:If your doing PI, with LRAP/IBR and student loan forgiveness, don't worry about loans.


Yes, don't worry about loans because you are guaranteed to get a PSLF/LRAP qualifying job and there is absolutely no chance that you won't get one and be shit outta luck with a low paying job and massive debt.


If the OP is truly interested in PI/non-profit type of work, they can qualify for IBR/PILF by getting any PI/gov/501c(3) job while they get the network and experience to get a paid legal job in the field. The payments are small and manageable and still count toward PILF and once you are in a legal job then your LRAP can kick in and take care of the small payment so that you have none. This is all true if OP is really into the idea of PI, and not just the idea of legal PI... that can come in time if it doesn't manifest at graduation. Most people who want to work in PI believe in the "cause", want to make the world a better place. I'm saying they can do that, whether its legal work right out the gate or not. (and getting a "regular" PI job can be done).

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thelawyler
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Re: UCLA (Total CoA ~ 50k) vs. Michigan (Total CoA ~ 150K)

Postby thelawyler » Tue May 01, 2012 10:26 pm

Damn this is a tough call, but I think I would take Michigan here... but I do not know much about the whole PI track. Perhaps UCLA would be a safer choice overall.

And that stat about academia from Michigan at 30% is LOL. No. Over a course of 3 years, 15 people from Michigan got a tenure-track position in academia. That means 5 per year, or 5/360 or about 1.3% of the class.

Basically, don't count on it. You have 1.3% chance from Michigan.




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