T14 or UF for Florida market?

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
User avatar
marlo45
Posts: 99
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:30 pm

T14 or UF for Florida market?

Postby marlo45 » Tue May 01, 2012 12:19 am

I've been living in NY for the better part of the last 10 years and i'm really tired of the place. I want to move to Florida (lots of family/friends) but i'm aware that the job market pales in comparison to NY.

As is (URM, 166, 3.8+ GPA), i will likely get into UF. However, by looking at stats and receiving feedback [from you guys and elsewhere], i believe i also have a chance of getting into a T14. I estimate that my debt would be around $200K (T14) vs $90K (UF).

That being said, i would rather be making $60-$70K/yr (or more if i have that chance) living in FL than making $100k/yr or less living in NY. My questions:

Is it realistic to expect to start out at around $60-$70k/yr in FL coming out of either UF or a T14?

Since i want to move to FL, would i be in a better position if i went to UF? Or a T14?

Would it be better to just go to a T14, try to secure a job in NY and gain a few years of experience before i think about leaving the big apple?

In your response, please take into consideration the difference in debt vs potential income/employment opportunities, this vs this, and that my wife (wants to move to FL for the same reasons) is currently making $70k/yr in NY but would be making around $50k in FL (and she doesn't care about the pay cut).

bdubs
Posts: 3729
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:23 pm

Re: T14 or UF for Florida market?

Postby bdubs » Tue May 01, 2012 12:30 am

Wrong forum. Also, you will probably get money in the T14 if AA or NA. If MA/PR then you might be right about the relative costs.

User avatar
marlo45
Posts: 99
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:30 pm

Re: T14 or UF for Florida market?

Postby marlo45 » Tue May 01, 2012 12:39 am

bdubs wrote:Also, you will probably get money in the T14 if AA or NA. If MA/PR then you might be right about the relative costs.

Thanks.

bdubs wrote:Wrong forum.

Sorry about that. I thought that since the post is essentially about comparing the employment/earning potential of 2 legal markets it should be here. Mods, please move to the appropriate forum.

Edit: I actually thought i was posting in the legal employment forum :oops:
Last edited by marlo45 on Tue May 01, 2012 1:07 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
rayiner
Posts: 6184
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am

Re: T14 or UF for Florida market?

Postby rayiner » Tue May 01, 2012 12:41 am

What kind of URM? Because 166/3.8 could get you substantial money throughout the T14: http://lawschoolnumbers.com/bwCO2014/jd

Columbia or Duke would definitely get you back to the Florida market and give you a tremendous safety net. Law firms just don't see local schools and national schools the same way. I have ties to Atlanta so I've researched that market a bit, and looking at the pre-recession data I saw that top Atlanta firms hired around median here at Northwestern, but in the top quarter at Emory.

The question is whether you'd rather work at a big firm in Florida, like Greenberg Traurig for $135k/year or a small firm in Florida for $60k/year with no debt.

User avatar
marlo45
Posts: 99
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:30 pm

Re: T14 or UF for Florida market?

Postby marlo45 » Tue May 01, 2012 12:53 am

rayiner wrote:What kind of URM? Because 166/3.8 could get you substantial money throughout the T14: http://lawschoolnumbers.com/bwCO2014/jd

Columbia or Duke would definitely get you back to the Florida market and give you a tremendous safety net. Law firms just don't see local schools and national schools the same way. I have ties to Atlanta so I've researched that market a bit, and looking at the pre-recession data I saw that top Atlanta firms hired around median here at Northwestern, but in the top quarter at Emory.

The question is whether you'd rather work at a big firm in Florida, like Greenberg Traurig for $135k/year or a small firm in Florida for $60k/year with no debt.


I'm AA, and yeah, i'm aware of the possible schollies but i was just doing a 'just in case' type analysis. If Columbia or Duke could do that for me, then they sound better than UF. I don't mind working for around $60k/yr with no debt but $135k/yr, even with debt, would be more ideal.

User avatar
flem
Posts: 12949
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 6:44 pm

Re: T14 or UF for Florida market?

Postby flem » Tue May 01, 2012 9:22 am

marlo45 wrote:
I'm AA, and yeah, i'm aware of the possible schollies but i was just doing a 'just in case' type analysis. If Columbia or Duke could do that for me, then they sound better than UF. I don't mind working for around $60k/yr with no debt but $135k/yr, even with debt, would be more ideal.


Have you considered Vandy at all?

User avatar
marlo45
Posts: 99
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:30 pm

Re: T14 or UF for Florida market?

Postby marlo45 » Tue May 01, 2012 10:33 am

flem wrote:
marlo45 wrote:
I'm AA, and yeah, i'm aware of the possible schollies but i was just doing a 'just in case' type analysis. If Columbia or Duke could do that for me, then they sound better than UF. I don't mind working for around $60k/yr with no debt but $135k/yr, even with debt, would be more ideal.


Have you considered Vandy at all?


I have. Their employment stats look really good (assuming it's close to being true) and they seem to place well in FL. If i get into, say, both NYU and Vandy, which of them do you think would be better for FL market?

I try to do some online research and compare numbers, but i also like to hear your opinions since sometimes it's impossible to get accurate insight by extrapolating from law schools' published data.

User avatar
flem
Posts: 12949
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 6:44 pm

Re: T14 or UF for Florida market?

Postby flem » Tue May 01, 2012 10:37 am

marlo45 wrote:
I have. Their employment stats look really good (assuming it's close to being true) and they seem to place well in FL. If i get into, say, both NYU and Vandy, which of them do you think would be better for FL market?

I try to do some online research and compare numbers, but i also like to hear your opinions since sometimes it's impossible to get accurate insight by extrapolating from law schools' published data.


I'm not really sure there's a wrong answer, other than median at NYU is a better place to be than median at Vandy. Vandy is really regarded as the best school in the south though. Never underestimate the good old boy network in Florida, either. NYU may be looked at with suspicion at many firms. However, NYU is going to give you better options outside Florida if you get no-offered there.

Also, the reason I suggest Vandy is you would probably be looking at big money there, so if you don't land BigLaw you're not boned.

Do you have ties to Florida?

TheZoid
Posts: 417
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:07 pm

Re: T14 or UF for Florida market?

Postby TheZoid » Tue May 01, 2012 10:46 am

flem wrote:
marlo45 wrote:
I have. Their employment stats look really good (assuming it's close to being true) and they seem to place well in FL. If i get into, say, both NYU and Vandy, which of them do you think would be better for FL market?

I try to do some online research and compare numbers, but i also like to hear your opinions since sometimes it's impossible to get accurate insight by extrapolating from law schools' published data.


I'm not really sure there's a wrong answer, other than median at NYU is a better place to be than median at Vandy. Vandy is really regarded as the best school in the south though. Never underestimate the good old boy network in Florida, either. NYU may be looked at with suspicion at many firms. However, NYU is going to give you better options outside Florida if you get no-offered there.

Also, the reason I suggest Vandy is you would probably be looking at big money there, so if you don't land BigLaw you're not boned.

Do you have ties to Florida?


Not UVA or Duke?

User avatar
marlo45
Posts: 99
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:30 pm

Re: T14 or UF for Florida market?

Postby marlo45 » Tue May 01, 2012 10:49 am

flem wrote:I'm not really sure there's a wrong answer, other than median at NYU is a better place to be than median at Vandy. Vandy is really regarded as the best school in the south though. Never underestimate the good old boy network in Florida, either. NYU may be looked at with suspicion at many firms. However, NYU is going to give you better options outside Florida if you get no-offered there.

Also, the reason I suggest Vandy is you would probably be looking at big money there, so if you don't land BigLaw you're not boned.

Do you have ties to Florida?

That's the thing. I don't have ties to FL and that's why i was kind of leaning towards UF since going to school there (when i had other options) is an indication of my wanting to be there. I've heard that law firms do have concerns about grads from the likes of NYU because of their ability to flee at will.

I agree that Vandy does seem a good option with their reputation in the south.

SunshineMagic
Posts: 110
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:53 pm

Re: T14 or UF for Florida market?

Postby SunshineMagic » Tue May 01, 2012 10:50 am

OP do you have any ties to FL?

User avatar
flem
Posts: 12949
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 6:44 pm

Re: T14 or UF for Florida market?

Postby flem » Tue May 01, 2012 10:52 am

marlo45 wrote:That's the thing. I don't have ties to FL and that's why i was kind of leaning towards UF since going to school there (when i had other options) is an indication of my wanting to be there. I've heard that law firms do have concerns about grads from the likes of NYU because of their ability to flee at will.

I agree that Vandy does seem a good option with their reputation in the south.


Yikes. The thing is, UF is definitely top dog in terms of fan/alumni base but with your numbers I wouldn't go there for free. If you REALLY want Florida, I'd probably go to Vandy and try to work there in the summers to establish some ties. That would show commitment, but getting the offers is the issue without ties. But I'm really not sure, you're in a tough spot.

TheZoid wrote:
Not UVA or Duke?


Not in terms of lay prestige, I don't think.

SunshineMagic
Posts: 110
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:53 pm

Re: T14 or UF for Florida market?

Postby SunshineMagic » Tue May 01, 2012 10:57 am

marlo45 wrote:
flem wrote:I'm not really sure there's a wrong answer, other than median at NYU is a better place to be than median at Vandy. Vandy is really regarded as the best school in the south though. Never underestimate the good old boy network in Florida, either. NYU may be looked at with suspicion at many firms. However, NYU is going to give you better options outside Florida if you get no-offered there.

Also, the reason I suggest Vandy is you would probably be looking at big money there, so if you don't land BigLaw you're not boned.

Do you have ties to Florida?

That's the thing. I don't have ties to FL and that's why i was kind of leaning towards UF since going to school there (when i had other options) is an indication of my wanting to be there. I've heard that law firms do have concerns about grads from the likes of NYU because of their ability to flee at will.

I agree that Vandy does seem a good option with their reputation in the south.



I know I will probably get shitcanned for this but if I were you OP I would try and get full ride to UM/Stetson with no stipulations or scholly to FSU. That way you can network in those respective cities... I don't know about FSU and UM but at stetson you can work during FT 2L and 3L during the semester at a firm or do a clinic at State Attorney/PD/City Att/County Att office/ Judge and build connections. I think if you want FL you need to be able to build a net. I think you could do that in Miami/Tallahassee/Tampa

SunshineMagic
Posts: 110
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:53 pm

Re: T14 or UF for Florida market?

Postby SunshineMagic » Tue May 01, 2012 10:57 am

Also I would not go to T14 with no ties to FL expecting to get FL...

User avatar
flem
Posts: 12949
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 6:44 pm

Re: T14 or UF for Florida market?

Postby flem » Tue May 01, 2012 10:58 am

SunshineMagic wrote:

I know I will probably get shitcanned for this but if I were you OP I would try and get full ride to UM/Stetson with no stipulations or scholly to FSU. That way you can network in those respective cities... I don't know about FSU and UM but at stetson you can work during FT 2L and 3L during the semester at a firm or do a clinic at State Attorney/PD/City Att/County Att office/ Judge and build connections. I think if you want FL you need to be able to build a net. I think you could do that in Miami/Tallahassee/Tampa


Why in the actual fuck with a URM with full ride at T14 numbers go to any of those schools?

SunshineMagic wrote:Also I would not go to T14 with no ties to FL expecting to get FL...


But this is credited

User avatar
Nelson
Posts: 2061
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:43 am

Re: T14 or UF for Florida market?

Postby Nelson » Tue May 01, 2012 11:02 am

OP, just blanket the T14 and the Florida schools next cycle. Come back with a full list of options and I think the decision will be easier as you'll get big money at Duke and UVA and possibly CCN as well.

User avatar
marlo45
Posts: 99
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:30 pm

Re: T14 or UF for Florida market?

Postby marlo45 » Tue May 01, 2012 11:14 am

Nelson wrote:OP, just blanket the T14 and the Florida schools next cycle. Come back with a full list of options and I think the decision will be easier as you'll get big money at Duke and UVA and possibly CCN as well.

Indeed, this is the plan. I hope i get big bucks from them, too.

User avatar
flem
Posts: 12949
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 6:44 pm

Re: T14 or UF for Florida market?

Postby flem » Tue May 01, 2012 11:18 am

If you have an extra year and you can afford it, maybe move to Florida and work for a firm for a year?

Your situation is unique in that you will have great options, but getting to Florida without pre-existing ties is going to be really tough. You can establish those ties by going to UF or FSU but you'd be selling yourself and future opportunities majorly short.

User avatar
marlo45
Posts: 99
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:30 pm

Re: T14 or UF for Florida market?

Postby marlo45 » Tue May 01, 2012 11:30 am

flem wrote:If you have an extra year and you can afford it, maybe move to Florida and work for a firm for a year?

Your situation is unique in that you will have great options, but getting to Florida without pre-existing ties is going to be really tough. You can establish those ties by going to UF or FSU but you'd be selling yourself and future opportunities majorly short.

I really don't want to take a year off. I agree with the rest of what you said. So i guess i'm gonna have to be careful in navigating this journey.

User avatar
flem
Posts: 12949
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 6:44 pm

Re: T14 or UF for Florida market?

Postby flem » Tue May 01, 2012 11:31 am

Follow up question: why Florida?

I'm from Florida. It's hot, flat and stupid. Florida blows, unless you're into old cranky bros, right wing Cubans and meth-heads.

User avatar
BruceWayne
Posts: 2032
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:36 pm

Re: T14 or UF for Florida market?

Postby BruceWayne » Tue May 01, 2012 11:33 am

flem wrote:Follow up question: why Florida?

I'm from Florida. It's hot, flat and stupid. Florida blows, unless you're into old cranky bros, right wing Cubans and meth-heads.


As he intimated the COL makes life a lot more enjoyable than where he's from. Living paycheck to paycheck isn't all that fun. Not to mention the beautiful weather and beautiful women.

]Not to be a downer OP, but if you want to work in Florida, and you don't have any Florida ties; you basically have no choice but to attend UVA, Duke, Vandy, or a school in Florida. Attending any of the NYC schools would be an especially bad idea (particularly with you living therecurrently; your interest in Florida will not be seen as very genuine ).

User avatar
flem
Posts: 12949
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 6:44 pm

Re: T14 or UF for Florida market?

Postby flem » Tue May 01, 2012 11:35 am

BruceWayne wrote:As he intimated the COL makes life a lot more enjoyable than where he's from. Living paycheck to paycheck isn't all that fun. Not to mention the beautiful weather and beautiful women.

]Not to be a downer OP, but if you want to work in Florida, and you don't have any Florida ties; you basically have no choice but to attend UVA, Duke, Vandy, or a school in Florida. Attending any of the NYC schools would be an especially bad idea (particularly with you living therecurrently; your interest in Florida will not be seen as very genuine ).


Anywhere worth living in Florida where there is a semblance of legal market is not some dirt cheap paradise.

SunshineMagic
Posts: 110
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:53 pm

Re: T14 or UF for Florida market?

Postby SunshineMagic » Tue May 01, 2012 11:41 am

flem wrote:Follow up question: why Florida?

I'm from Florida. It's hot, flat and stupid. Florida blows, unless you're into old cranky bros, right wing Cubans and meth-heads.


Image

--ImageRemoved--

Image

Image

--ImageRemoved--

Image

--ImageRemoved--

User avatar
flem
Posts: 12949
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 6:44 pm

Re: T14 or UF for Florida market?

Postby flem » Tue May 01, 2012 11:43 am

Disneyworld is a giant con. Try again.

:D

User avatar
marlo45
Posts: 99
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:30 pm

Re: T14 or UF for Florida market?

Postby marlo45 » Tue May 01, 2012 11:52 am

BruceWayne wrote:
flem wrote:Follow up question: why Florida?

I'm from Florida. It's hot, flat and stupid. Florida blows, unless you're into old cranky bros, right wing Cubans and meth-heads.


As he intimated the COL makes life a lot more enjoyable than where he's from. Living paycheck to paycheck isn't all that fun. Not to mention the beautiful weather and beautiful women.

]Not to be a downer OP, but if you want to work in Florida, and you don't have any Florida ties; you basically have no choice but to attend UVA, Duke, Vandy, or a school in Florida. Attending any of the NYC schools would be an especially bad idea (particularly with you living therecurrently; your interest in Florida will not be seen as very genuine ).


tflem, are you kidding? I've been to FL (Ft. Lauderdale, Miami, Tampa, Plantation, N. Miami Beach) and i love the place! I'm tired of the overcrowded, overpriced NYC area. I think it would be nice to visit here once in a while, but i don't want to make it a home for me and my family.

Yeah, BruceWayne, i really hate the idea of living in a very expensive 2 bedroom condo in and around NYC when i could get a huge 5/6 bedroom house for the same or less in FL. My wife and i are originally from Jamaica (we grew up there) so i'm used to the tropical climate and the close proximity of beaches. Also, i like the relatively cheap flights between FL and Jamaica.




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot], MSNbot Media and 3 guests