GW vs Emory

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cts2012
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GW vs Emory

Postby cts2012 » Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:41 pm

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Last edited by cts2012 on Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:24 am, edited 2 times in total.

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minnbills
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Re: GW vs Emory

Postby minnbills » Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:47 pm

GW since it will give you a better shot. Though if you're set on a market paying gig remember the odds aren't in your favor from either of these schools.

cts2012
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Re: GW vs Emory

Postby cts2012 » Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:14 pm

Which school would be better if I finish at median in my class? From looking at the data I know median would be a bad place to be, but would one school be better than the other in terms of placement?

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john1990
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Re: GW vs Emory

Postby john1990 » Tue May 01, 2012 1:56 am

gw looks better on LST, although cost of living is low in atlanta.

CanadianWolf
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Re: GW vs Emory

Postby CanadianWolf » Tue May 01, 2012 8:10 am

Since you have "very close ties with biglaw hiring partners", you should seek their advice even if they are located in the Midwest since all offices look the same from the inside & young biglaw associates get very little outdoor time.

Your lawschoolnumbers.com account shows that you received a $66,000 scholarship offer from Emory & nothing from GWU. Even though your post states "debt-free" from both, I'll bet that you can find good use for an extra $66,000. Emory, therefore, seems to be the better choice.

cts2012
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Re: GW vs Emory

Postby cts2012 » Thu May 03, 2012 10:20 am

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Last edited by cts2012 on Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Doorkeeper
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Re: GW vs Emory

Postby Doorkeeper » Thu May 03, 2012 10:23 am

cts2012 wrote:Which school would be better if I finish at median in my class? From looking at the data I know median would be a bad place to be, but would one school be better than the other in terms of placement?

Neither. You would need to use pre-existing personal connections to get a biglaw job at median at either school.

This being said, if you're going to graduate debt free either way, go to GW, and keep your biglaw hiring partner contacts. They will be vital to you because it's an uphill battle from either school.

woeisme
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Re: GW vs Emory

Postby woeisme » Thu May 03, 2012 10:27 am

I'd probably do Emory actually. I think of these as peer schools with fairly similar job prospects (...are they not?). Assuming this to be the case, then go where you'd rather end up. You said Atlanta/southeast > DC, ... which makes Emory TCR.

It's a good thing you won't have debt post-graduation because I would not attend either anticipating making bank.

cts2012
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Re: GW vs Emory

Postby cts2012 » Thu May 03, 2012 11:28 am

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Last edited by cts2012 on Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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flem
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Re: GW vs Emory

Postby flem » Thu May 03, 2012 11:33 am

cts2012 wrote:Emory reports there 75% salary to be $160,000 and they also report ~19% going to NY, NJ, PA (I assume mostly NYC), but there are no (few?) firms in Atlanta that pay $160,000, so does that mean most of the students at the top of the class at Emory actually end up in NYC, not Atlanta? If so, is this by choice? Or is it because there simply aren't enough jobs for the top of the class at Emory to get biglaw in Atlanta?

They report ~40% of Emory grads stay in Atlanta, but what jobs do most of these graduates work?


Depends. Emory has had a mediocre showing in ATL biglaw lately. ATL biglaw market rate is 145K. Top 10-15% at Emory has options outside of the state. The rest land in mid or small shops in ATL. Bottom third is boned.

loklamora
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Re: GW vs Emory

Postby loklamora » Thu May 03, 2012 11:38 am

I have seen cts on a number of boards that I have been looking at so I feel as if we are in similar positions. I am definitely interested in the answers to his questions.

To the original query, I have a friend who is trying to persuade me that GW at sticker or Fordham at 10 a year is a better option that a half scholly at emory. I have heard the horror stories on here about emory but is the diff between these schools significant enough to justify another 80k?

Note: I have more ties to the SE but I have worked in dc. Comments like "where do you want to live" are less helpful than "job prospects are significantly better in (place) for what you want to do because...."

Lastly, if I attend Emory I am looking at around 80k total debt. Is this a doable figure?

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flem
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Re: GW vs Emory

Postby flem » Thu May 03, 2012 11:41 am

loklamora wrote:
Lastly, if I attend Emory I am looking at around 80k total debt. Is this a doable figure?


If you're cool with ATL, then that's the price it should cost.

cts2012
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Re: GW vs Emory

Postby cts2012 » Thu May 03, 2012 1:35 pm

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Last edited by cts2012 on Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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flem
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Re: GW vs Emory

Postby flem » Thu May 03, 2012 1:45 pm

cts2012 wrote:tflem, I looked through your posts and you work in ATL biglaw, so I'm curious to get your take - how many biglaw + good midlaw (if any) jobs are there in atlanta? What school does the best, looking on firm websites it looks like Vandy, Emory and UGA are the top 3?


Honestly, fuck if I know. Market is still really rough. The firm I work for is recovering some, and it's one of the largest here. Rumor is were taking on 20ish SAs this summer as opposed to 5 last summer, but that's down from 40ish at boom times.

The culture of ATL firms is that they are grade/prestige whores. The pecking order for biglaw hiring looks something like this:

T14 + ties bros
Vandy bros (top 1/3rd to median)
Emory bros (top 1/3rd to 1/4)
UGA bros (top 20% to top 15%)
GA State bros (top 10%)
Mercer bros (top 5%)

The city does seem to be recovering some but it's still all about grades and prestige, so I don't think it's different than any other city. It's definitely not a ties-centric city like other cities in the south are (Nashville, B-ham, etc). It's definitely the largest market in the south and there's a good amount of Fortune 500 companies here for clients (UPS, Coke, Delta, etc) as well as major branches of the Big 4 accounting firms so there is a good amount of work that needs to be done. There's no shortage of small shops doing your typical DUI defense work either. There does seem to be a good amount of boutique firms but to be honest, I know very little about the market outside of the major firms because when we do litigate in ATL we're usually up against another Vault firm; most of the work the biglaw firms do is in other districts.

Also, for whatever reason, despite firms digging deeper into the class at Emory, UGA and Emory are roughly viewed as peer schools.

Hope this is helpful in some way.

treeey86
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Re: GW vs Emory

Postby treeey86 » Thu May 03, 2012 3:03 pm

Atlanta market is much smaller than the DC market. The DC market is a LOT more saturated than the Atlanta market.

Emory and GW are about equal in each's market.

Emory is second fiddle to T-14/Vandy in Atlanta, and more or less a peer with UGA ( at end of day it all comes down to where hiring partners went, and if the firms believe an Emory student really wants to stay in GA). Emory otherwise has the leg up against the other schools that feed into Atlanta, which are not too many ( GA state, mercer, and typically Florida schools).

GW is second fiddle to T-14, and peer with all the other T20-40 schools sending students to DC. GW does have the leg up against the other schools feeding into DC...which happens to practically be every other school in the country.

Emory is firmly in the second tier of prestige for the Atlanta market. GW is firmly in the second tier of prestige for the DC market. One advantage I would say Emory has over GW is that even though the Atlanta market is far smaller than the DC market ( and thus there are less opportunities available), the Emory name will get you further in Atlanta than the GW name in DC because (1) numerically there are just less schools feeding into the market so the Emory name stands out more and (2) there is a southern bias to hiring meaning that once you establish your roots in Atlanta ( either from being from GA, having gone to undergrad here, having lived here a decent amount of time, or going to one of the law schools here long enough) you will be looked at more favorably than a transplant applicant (whereas in DC there is no such bias and students from good schools will all be looked at more or less equally).

Emory and GW do not by any means guarantee you big law or mid law doing corporate work. In fact, it is harder to break into mid-law corporate work because most corporate work is handled by the big firms, with the rest falling to really small shops ( 1-3 attorneys), and thus the mid-sized firms are (a) not plentiful, (b) tend to be staffed with experienced attorneys, and (c) rarely hire inexperienced attorneys that need training. Top 30% at GW and Emory can compete for biglaw SA at 2L OCI, but if you flame out don't expect top 30% from either school to get you something 3L.

If you have ties to hiring partners you should use those ties to secure you a job and then go to whichever school you can afford since in such a situation the job would not be dependent on the school ( and likely would just really depend on your connections and having grades respectable enough to use said connections).

cts2012
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Re: GW vs Emory

Postby cts2012 » Thu May 03, 2012 3:56 pm

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Last edited by cts2012 on Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

de5igual
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Re: GW vs Emory

Postby de5igual » Thu May 03, 2012 4:23 pm

flem wrote:T14 + ties bros
Vandy bros (top 1/3rd to median)
Emory bros (top 1/3rd to 1/4)
UGA bros (top 20% to top 15%)
GA State bros (top 10%)
Mercer bros (top 5%)
.


Is this chart even accurate for ITE?

Just from reading through OCI threads and going through recruiting in Atl, this was my perception:
T6 w ties - grades were rarely an issue
T7-14 w ties, top 1/3 - median
Vandy - top 1/3 - 1/4 (UT might be in this category, but the sample size is too small. I just know of one Top 5% and one Top 1/4 going to Atl biglaw)
Emory/UGA - top 15% or even higher (everyone I had callbacks with were all LR types from these schools)

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flem
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Re: GW vs Emory

Postby flem » Thu May 03, 2012 4:25 pm

f0bolous wrote:
flem wrote:T14 + ties bros
Vandy bros (top 1/3rd to median)
Emory bros (top 1/3rd to 1/4)
UGA bros (top 20% to top 15%)
GA State bros (top 10%)
Mercer bros (top 5%)
.


Is this chart even accurate for ITE?

Just from reading through OCI threads and going through recruiting in Atl, this was my perception:
T6 w ties - grades were rarely an issue
T7-14 w ties, top 1/3 - median
Vandy - top 1/3 - 1/4 (UT might be in this category, but the sample size is too small. I just know of one Top 5% and one Top 1/4 going to Atl biglaw)
Emory/UGA - top 15% or even higher (everyone I had callbacks with were all LR types from these schools)


I'd say that's where you have a shot, not when you're biglawl secure

cts2012
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Re: GW vs Emory

Postby cts2012 » Thu May 03, 2012 11:23 pm

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Last edited by cts2012 on Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

woeisme
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Re: GW vs Emory

Postby woeisme » Fri May 04, 2012 9:31 am

cts2012 wrote:Does the practice area I'd like to go into influence which school I should go to? Would DC be a bad home market because I want corporate law and not government related work?


No.

cts2012
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Re: GW vs Emory

Postby cts2012 » Sun May 06, 2012 10:36 pm

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