Is SHU the best school to find a health law career in NJ?

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YControl
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Is SHU the best school to find a health law career in NJ?

Postby YControl » Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:41 am

Hi. I've just been tossing this idea around in my head. I'm interested in transferring to Seton Hall law school. I'm currently a law student at a top 50 school in another region focusing on health law, but I'm rethinking where I want to settle down and develop a professional network. I'm a NJ native, went to undergrad here, and I would love to work for a hospital or health care organization in the state. I was accepted into the school when I was first applying to law schools and offered a substantial scholarship. I completed my first year but had to request a leave of absence this year for personal reasons, so the idea of transferring doesn't seem that intimidating to me.

I searched Seton Hall Law on TLS and I know there are few commenters who particularly dislike this school, so I understand what I'm walking into by asking a question about this school lol! Thank you in advance for any advice.

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Wholigan
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Re: Is SHU the best school to find a health law career in NJ?

Postby Wholigan » Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:54 am

If you transfer, you'll be paying sticker. SH is one of the most expensive non-T14s out there at $45k/year. There's no way that's even close to worth it. I don't know that transferring to R/N is a great idea either, but SH is absolutely not worth $40k more, because that extra $40k to SH is not going to buy you any extra job prospects.

YControl
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Re: Is SHU the best school to find a health law career in NJ?

Postby YControl » Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:12 pm

Thanx for your response. Why do you think it's not worth transferring to Rutgers Newark?

Do you have information about job prospects for SHU health law students? I think it's important to narrow it down. A dream of mine would be to work for a non-profit hospital and participate in the gov't's public interest debt forgiveness program. I saw one SHU graph that listed that the mean salary for the class of 2010, I'm not sure when the graph was published, was $70,000. I don't think this is an upsetting statistic.

Also, I don't know yet if they don't offer scholarships to transfer students. I'll have to ask.

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romothesavior
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Re: Is SHU the best school to find a health law career in NJ?

Postby romothesavior » Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:17 pm

You've been to law school for a year and still trust school job statistics? C'mon, man.

Check out their job data. If you add up SH's placement into federal clerkships + firms of 50 or more employees + government + public interest, you account for less than 20% of the class.

Awful, awful, awful. Just awful. Get the real facts, man. Odds are extremely high you will either be wildly underemployed in the legal industry, or not using your degree at all.


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tedalbany
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Re: Is SHU the best school to find a health law career in NJ?

Postby tedalbany » Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:50 pm



The mean salary was $70k but the median was $40k... which of those two do you think is going to be more reflective of the class as a whole and not skewed by the few who got big law?

rad lulz
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Re: Is SHU the best school to find a health law career in NJ?

Postby rad lulz » Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:55 pm

romothesavior wrote:You've been to law school for a year and still trust school job statistics? C'mon, man.

Check out their job data. If you add up SH's placement into federal clerkships + firms of 50 or more employees + government + public interest, you account for less than 20% of the class.

Awful, awful, awful. Just awful. Get the real facts, man. Odds are extremely high you will either be wildly underemployed in the legal industry, or not using your degree at all.

This is credited.

Though I would have liked more mentions of the Valvoline Dean.

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Wholigan
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Re: Is SHU the best school to find a health law career in NJ?

Postby Wholigan » Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:07 pm

YControl wrote:Thanx for your response. Why do you think it's not worth transferring to Rutgers Newark?

Do you have information about job prospects for SHU health law students? I think it's important to narrow it down. A dream of mine would be to work for a non-profit hospital and participate in the gov't's public interest debt forgiveness program. I saw one SHU graph that listed that the mean salary for the class of 2010, I'm not sure when the graph was published, was $70,000. I don't think this is an upsetting statistic.

Also, I don't know yet if they don't offer scholarships to transfer students. I'll have to ask.


It's unlikely that you'll be offered scholarship money because they don't get to count you in their stats for USNWR. They'd rather give the money to an incoming 1L that will help them boost LSAT/GPA figures. But it can't hurt to ask around.

Using the mean is a bad idea - the chart you cited shows that out of 148 grads with reported salaries, the mean is $70k and the median is $44k. The mean is being dragged up by the 20-25 people who have $160k salaries. Median is where you are far more likely to end up. Also, this is not a mean/median of the whole class - just those who reported salary. If you count the 125 students who have no reported salary, it would bring the actual mean and median down.

As far as RU/N, I think it's borderline because you'd be taking out $90k in debt for two years, plus whatever you already have, for in all likelihood a $40-$50k/year job if everything works out. (Assuming you need COL - if you can live at home and keep debt down, it would change my opinion somewhat). The numbers don't work out favorably. As far as hospital work, these places tend to hire experienced attorneys, so your chances at a job there are likely to be only as good as your chances to get another job first right out of school.

YControl
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Re: Is SHU the best school to find a health law career in NJ?

Postby YControl » Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:07 pm

tedalbany wrote:


The mean salary was $70k but the median was $40k... which of those two do you think is going to be more reflective of the class as a whole and not skewed by the few who got big law?


It looks to be a lot of judicial clerkships (100 out of 123 public sector jobs. see 2nd pg) reporting the $40k salary, which is standard across the country. 145 graduates reported working in the private sector and those stats looks promising.

I know the stats information. I was hoping someone could offer some specific insight into the SHU health law program, anyone who's looked into it, completed it, or studying it now.

rad lulz
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Re: Is SHU the best school to find a health law career in NJ?

Postby rad lulz » Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:12 pm

Again, lol @ you for trusting school reported data without further investigation. This is like law school 101 bro

YControl
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Re: Is SHU the best school to find a health law career in NJ?

Postby YControl » Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:14 pm

Wholigan wrote:
YControl wrote:Thanx for your response. Why do you think it's not worth transferring to Rutgers Newark?

Do you have information about job prospects for SHU health law students? I think it's important to narrow it down. A dream of mine would be to work for a non-profit hospital and participate in the gov't's public interest debt forgiveness program. I saw one SHU graph that listed that the mean salary for the class of 2010, I'm not sure when the graph was published, was $70,000. I don't think this is an upsetting statistic.

Also, I don't know yet if they don't offer scholarships to transfer students. I'll have to ask.


It's unlikely that you'll be offered scholarship money because they don't get to count you in their stats for USNWR. They'd rather give the money to an incoming 1L that will help them boost LSAT/GPA figures. But it can't hurt to ask around.

Using the mean is a bad idea - the chart you cited shows that out of 148 grads with reported salaries, the mean is $70k and the median is $44k. The mean is being dragged up by the 20-25 people who have $160k salaries. Median is where you are far more likely to end up. Also, this is not a mean/median of the whole class - just those who reported salary. If you count the 125 students who have no reported salary, it would bring the actual mean and median down.

As far as RU/N, I think it's borderline because you'd be taking out $90k in debt for two years, plus whatever you already have, for in all likelihood a $40-$50k/year job if everything works out. (Assuming you need COL - if you can live at home and keep debt down, it would change my opinion somewhat). The numbers don't work out favorably. As far as hospital work, these places tend to hire experienced attorneys, so your chances at a job there are likely to be only as good as your chances to get another job first right out of school.


Thx, those are good points. I've been considering COL too. That's true about hospital general counsel, but depending upon the structure of the hospital, they could have a shared services set-up which includes a bigger legal department more likely to higher recent grads. I've heard of a University of Baltimore student who interned at Johns Hopkins and was hired right out of school so stranger things do happen!

kaiser
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Re: Is SHU the best school to find a health law career in NJ?

Postby kaiser » Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:17 pm

YControl wrote:
tedalbany wrote:


The mean salary was $70k but the median was $40k... which of those two do you think is going to be more reflective of the class as a whole and not skewed by the few who got big law?


It looks to be a lot of judicial clerkships (100 out of 123 public sector jobs. see 2nd pg) reporting the $40k salary, which is standard across the country. 145 graduates reported working in the private sector and those stats looks promising.

I know the stats information. I was hoping someone could offer some specific insight into the SHU health law program, anyone who's looked into it, completed it, or studying it now.


If any of that manipulated and cooked data looks in any way "promising" to you, then you are not looking hard enough. Stop being delusional. This ins't a decision on how you spend the $10 bucks in your pocket on lunch. We are talking nearly $100K, so start using some brain cells in analyzing this.

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thelawyler
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Re: Is SHU the best school to find a health law career in NJ?

Postby thelawyler » Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:20 pm

YControl wrote:
tedalbany wrote:


The mean salary was $70k but the median was $40k... which of those two do you think is going to be more reflective of the class as a whole and not skewed by the few who got big law?


It looks to be a lot of judicial clerkships (100 out of 123 public sector jobs. see 2nd pg) reporting the $40k salary, which is standard across the country. 145 graduates reported working in the private sector and those stats looks promising.

I know the stats information. I was hoping someone could offer some specific insight into the SHU health law program, anyone who's looked into it, completed it, or studying it now.


I think its pretty clear you do not know the correct stats information. Coming here and making this thread could have been the best decision of your life. Now, make the follow up best decision and acknowledge it as good advice.

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quiver
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Re: Is SHU the best school to find a health law career in NJ?

Postby quiver » Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:30 pm

Relatedly, I'm not sure transferring is worth it from another perspective. It seems like you have strong ties to NJ so if you get 1L and 2L summer jobs there and network like crazy I'm not sure employment in your desired field is any more likely out of SHU then out of your current school.

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romothesavior
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Re: Is SHU the best school to find a health law career in NJ?

Postby romothesavior » Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:53 pm

How many of those clerkships are federal or state supreme? The majority of those clerkships are into traffic court and trial courts and family courts and maybe some lower level appellate. You wanna pay 100k in two years for that?

I expect a little naivety from 0Ls, but not a 1L. Come on, look at the data I posted. This is a horrible idea all the way around.


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superbloom
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Re: Is SHU the best school to find a health law career in NJ?

Postby superbloom » Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:40 pm

I would love to see some data as to what these people are doing after clerking for a year. I know Rutgers and Seton Hall both place huge amounts of graduates into "State and Local" clerkships. It's all real shady to me and it seems like these grads might be SOL after their clerkship.

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flem
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Re: Is SHU the best school to find a health law career in NJ?

Postby flem » Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:40 pm

lol who would transfer INTO Seton Hall

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stillwater
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Re: Is SHU the best school to find a health law career in NJ?

Postby stillwater » Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:42 pm

SHU is a good school to find unemployed law.

YControl
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Re: Is SHU the best school to find a health law career in NJ?

Postby YControl » Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:28 pm

quiver wrote:Relatedly, I'm not sure transferring is worth it from another perspective. It seems like you have strong ties to NJ so if you get 1L and 2L summer jobs there and network like crazy I'm not sure employment in your desired field is any more likely out of SHU then out of your current school.


Ah! I wrote something out but lost it...

I was a research assistant my 1L summer, but a 2L summer job in NJ is a possibility. Practically it's not so great because I'd have to give-up my apartment. Do you have advice on networking out-of-state? I'm not sure a law school would like me crashing their mixers lol! I've heard of students asking lawyers out for lunch but I don't know how well that goes over emailing someone I don't know. I wonder if students volunteer at firms/hospitals/organizations 1 or 2 days a week? That way you can learn about the place and the work without the stress of an externship or having to pay for credits. I have a free summer before I head back to school and I can't work full time so I could do that.

Also, I would suggest emailing the admissions dept at SHU if anyone is interested in this school. They're very friendly, quick with their response, willing to answer any question, and will put you in touch with a professor (I plan on talking to a health law professor). If you have questions about job prospects and accumulating debt, I'm sure they'll answer those questions too. It's important to make an informed decision and I'm sure they can at least give you something additional to think about. Also, transfer students are eligible for scholarships btw.





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