Indiana-Bloomington $ vs. Wake $$

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danquayle
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Re: Indiana-Bloomington $ vs. Wake $$

Postby danquayle » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:10 pm

romothesavior wrote:
The Rover wrote:Why is everyone so sure that b-school ranking doesn't matter? I won't claim to be an expert but Indiana's b-school has a good reputation in the Midwest FWIW.

Let's turn the tables around on you: why would B-school rankings matter at all to a non-JD/MBA?

And even for someone getting a JD/MBA, it wouldn't make much difference here. A JD/MBA really only makes sense for a limited number of people, or for people at certain elite B-schools. Indiana may have a solid business school, but it isn't on par with the types of business schools that could potentially make a difference (Harvard, Wharton, Stanford, Kellogg, Chicago, etc.) I go to a school with a B-school ranked similarly to IU, and it hasn't helped me or my classmates one bit. It is a non-factor in law hiring.

Look at that chart I posted above and see how Indiana places into firms relative to their T30 peers. The non-effect of their B-school should be obvious.


Kelley is a significantly better b-school than Olin. IU's b-school is historically very strong, whereas the law school has historically been so-so.

The JD/MBA's at IU do get a little boost to their marketability because the MBA is stronger then the JD. I'm not surprised this is not true at WUSTL, where the JD is far stronger than the MBA.

But I have to agree... why not just go to Pepperdine and ditch the MBA? The value of the MBA diminishes quickly outside of the top 10-15 schools - much quicker than the value of the JD even.

rad lulz
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Re: Indiana-Bloomington $ vs. Wake $$

Postby rad lulz » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:18 pm

romothesavior wrote:Ah, I missed that he's getting a JD/MBA. Those are tricky beasts, from what I understand. At an elite B-school, people will gravitate more towards one or the other, and the B-school alone can get you a really good non-law job. It can also be beneficial to go the firm route with a really prestigious MBA. That doesn't happen as often outside the very top unless you have something special like previous experience or something. We don't know OP's situation, so it is hard to say whether the JD/MBA makes any sense here. A lot of people just get it to have an extra degree, in which case it adds almost no value. It is usually only smart to get one if you have some tangible use for it. So who knows what effect it will have here.

Also, I doubt that people in DC/LA are going to be blow away by an IU-B MBA.

Also no clue if OP has solid WE, but if not, it's not worth getting right now.

pbfoot
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Re: Indiana-Bloomington $ vs. Wake $$

Postby pbfoot » Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:30 pm

rad lulz wrote:
romothesavior wrote:Ah, I missed that he's getting a JD/MBA. Those are tricky beasts, from what I understand. At an elite B-school, people will gravitate more towards one or the other, and the B-school alone can get you a really good non-law job. It can also be beneficial to go the firm route with a really prestigious MBA. That doesn't happen as often outside the very top unless you have something special like previous experience or something. We don't know OP's situation, so it is hard to say whether the JD/MBA makes any sense here. A lot of people just get it to have an extra degree, in which case it adds almost no value. It is usually only smart to get one if you have some tangible use for it. So who knows what effect it will have here.

Also, I doubt that people in DC/LA are going to be blow away by an IU-B MBA.

Also no clue if OP has solid WE, but if not, it's not worth getting right now.

My work experience during my senior year is what has, even if not guaranteed, put me in the best possible position to get nearly any job in the entertainment industry. Don't want to say much more than that, but I had three strong internships that led to my being hired into a part time position while still in school at one of the two "feeder" programs for most jobs in the whole industry. The position is definitely not JD-required but folks with law degrees (probably close to half) are generally more successful in the positions I would move into after a couple years. Not sure I want to go into the industry on that side (or at all), which is why I am getting out of LA for awhile. Plus, USC has one of the strongest alumni networks in the country so job prospects aren't such a huge concern. Money is a factor, but it is a secondary consideration.

Ideally (at least as of now) I will leverage the JD/MBA into a position at somewhere in the tech industry doing content acquisition (YouTube or Apple would be awesome, but we'll see), as that was my focus in my prior job. I also am almost certain I want to pursue a clerkship, as public service is the other direction I am considering going. I appreciate the opinion on JD/MBA's, but my father is a consultant and has told me it is potentially one of the most marketable degrees-especially in this climate. Notwithstanding age/experience considerations, you are effectively doubling your employment opportunities and unless you want to work at a big firm who frowns upon candidates who aren't 100% committed to law (which I do not) having both will definitely be better than one or the other no matter where its from. I honestly have no idea if I will ever use my law degree in a JD-required position or if I will use an MBA at all, but being able to get both in 3-4 years (depending on program) and be done by 26 sounds a lot more appealing than having to do the MBA part time five years down the road.

Thanks for the opinions, will be visiting both so we'll see how its feeling after that.

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romothesavior
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Re: Indiana-Bloomington $ vs. Wake $$

Postby romothesavior » Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:43 pm

I think your father is probably a little biased being a consultant (not to mention being older, things have changed). Consulting is arguably one of the few jobs it would be especially beneficial to have a JD/MBA, but it's not like good consulting jobs just grow on trees. The value of an MBA and a JD individually have gone down; tacking them together doesn't double their value. Few lawyers really have any need for an MBA, and few businessmen have a need for a JD. I've even heard a lot of lawyers take a snide approach to JD/MBAs, as if the people getting them are just floating through law school without a real gameplan. I'd be pretty skeptical of the idea that they "double your job prospects." We're not saying a JD/MBA is always a bad idea, just that you should think about how it is actually going to help you in a concrete way. If it is going to help you, go for it. It's just something to consider.

Anyways, I stand by what I said earlier: if you are so sure you can get a good job no matter what, why are you looking to pay a lot of money for a degree? Go for free, get your JD/MBA if you are so inclined, and then go profit at this job you have locked up. It's not like a JD from IU-B or Wake Forest is going to impress anyone in the tech industry out in Cali or something. And if you want to clerk (odd given your desired career path), neither of these schools are pipelines to that kind of thing. As in like, your odds are <5%. I know you say you won't have debt, but that's still money spent. Unless 100k is just pocket change to you, I think you should be focusing on minimizing your costs.

Either way, good luck.

rad lulz
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Re: Indiana-Bloomington $ vs. Wake $$

Postby rad lulz » Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:53 pm

OP I recommend doing more research, because your plan doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

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Re: Indiana-Bloomington $ vs. Wake $$

Postby BearsGrl » Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:03 pm

rad lulz wrote:OP I recommend doing more research, because your plan doesn't make a whole lot of sense.


OP's plan makes plenty of sense and that's all I will say.

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Re: Indiana-Bloomington $ vs. Wake $$

Postby pbfoot » Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:10 pm

rad lulz wrote:OP I recommend doing more research, because your plan doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

I know it's not what the TLS crowd usually likes, but its really not too complicated. Let me lay it out so you can understand...not staying in LA because I can go back anyway, would like to go to school in NC but not if it means sacrificing quality, want a JD/MBA because...why not, and want to give a clerkship a try to see if its something I'm interested in. Research is exactly what I'm doing right now by writing on this forum.

rad lulz
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Re: Indiana-Bloomington $ vs. Wake $$

Postby rad lulz » Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:20 pm

Some random thoughts

1) For guaranteed job: just get the JD/MBA for whichever is cheapest/which one you like more. Neither one really is more well known in CA.

2) For legal jobs you would want to pursue that aren't guaranteed: If you want to clerk, go to a school with good clerkship placement. These aren't it. If you want to keep public interests as an option, do NOT get the JD/MBA. It sends up red flags that you're uncommitted to PI. PI is insanely competitive because it offers 10 year loan forgiveness. For private employers, JD/MBAs don't really add much unless you have solid pre-LS WE that firms care about (you don't). Like others have said before, despite what your dad says, in the legal industry, the degrees are seldom synergistic. Also, these schools primarily are known in their immediate regions. You're not from those regions. This will make it harder to get a job.

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Re: Indiana-Bloomington $ vs. Wake $$

Postby BearsGrl » Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:25 pm

rad lulz wrote:Some random thoughts

1) For guaranteed job: just get the JD/MBA for whichever is cheapest/which one you like more. Neither one really is more well known in CA.

2) For legal jobs you would want to pursue that aren't guaranteed: If you want to clerk, go to a school with good clerkship placement. These aren't it. If you want to keep public interests as an option, do NOT get the JD/MBA. It sends up red flags that you're uncommitted to PI. PI is insanely competitive because it offers 10 year loan forgiveness. For private employers, JD/MBAs don't really add much unless you have solid pre-LS WE that firms care about (you don't). Like others have said before, despite what your dad says, in the legal industry, the degrees are seldom synergistic. Also, these schools primarily are known in their immediate regions. You're not from those regions. This will make it harder to get a job.


Lots of students migrate to IU from the Coasts and they do just fine. Many of these folks head back to their home states or go to other states, depending on their field of study. I agree with your first point. That is all.

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emkay625
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Re: Indiana-Bloomington $ vs. Wake $$

Postby emkay625 » Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:14 pm

I vote Wakeforest. If you like the school/state better and money/job prospects truly don't matter to you, go to the school that would make you happiest.

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danquayle
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Re: Indiana-Bloomington $ vs. Wake $$

Postby danquayle » Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:17 pm

romothesavior wrote:I think your father is probably a little biased being a consultant (not to mention being older, things have changed). Consulting is arguably one of the few jobs it would be especially beneficial to have a JD/MBA, but it's not like good consulting jobs just grow on trees. The value of an MBA and a JD individually have gone down; tacking them together doesn't double their value. Few lawyers really have any need for an MBA, and few businessmen have a need for a JD. I've even heard a lot of lawyers take a snide approach to JD/MBAs, as if the people getting them are just floating through law school without a real gameplan. I'd be pretty skeptical of the idea that they "double your job prospects." We're not saying a JD/MBA is always a bad idea, just that you should think about how it is actually going to help you in a concrete way. If it is going to help you, go for it. It's just something to consider.

Anyways, I stand by what I said earlier: if you are so sure you can get a good job no matter what, why are you looking to pay a lot of money for a degree? Go for free, get your JD/MBA if you are so inclined, and then go profit at this job you have locked up. It's not like a JD from IU-B or Wake Forest is going to impress anyone in the tech industry out in Cali or something. And if you want to clerk (odd given your desired career path), neither of these schools are pipelines to that kind of thing. As in like, your odds are <5%. I know you say you won't have debt, but that's still money spent. Unless 100k is just pocket change to you, I think you should be focusing on minimizing your costs.

Either way, good luck.


JD/MBA for consulting only makes sense if its from a top 10 school in both fields. Consulting is massively prestige oriented. Consulting firms hire people they deem "smart" and accordingly give much more credence to caliber of institution over caliber of degree. Many consulting firms would give more value to an Art History Major out of Harvard than a JD/MBA out of Case Western. (Way more so at the top). Neither IUB nor Wake will get you into a top consulting firm. Kelley might have some shot at lesser firms. (If you have W/E, which you don't.)

It sounds like you're not going to have any experience when you graduate. This makes your MBA effectively worthless. A MBA without experience is useless unless its from like Harvard, and even then only in certain fields.

OP, there are JD jobs and then there are MBA jobs. There are no JD/MBA jobs. Certainly there are jobs where both would be useful. But you will either get those jobs 1) on the strength of one of your degrees alone or 2) with the kind of connections that, if you have them as you claim, would be just as useful coming out of lesser, cheaper schools.
Last edited by danquayle on Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:27 pm, edited 6 times in total.

AffordablePrep
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Re: Indiana-Bloomington $ vs. Wake $$

Postby AffordablePrep » Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:20 pm

are these op's only two options? they seem kind of random given his goals.

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danquayle
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Re: Indiana-Bloomington $ vs. Wake $$

Postby danquayle » Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:32 pm

pbfoot wrote:
rad lulz wrote:OP I recommend doing more research, because your plan doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

I know it's not what the TLS crowd usually likes, but its really not too complicated. Let me lay it out so you can understand...not staying in LA because I can go back anyway, would like to go to school in NC but not if it means sacrificing quality, want a JD/MBA because...why not, and want to give a clerkship a try to see if its something I'm interested in. Research is exactly what I'm doing right now by writing on this forum.


Why not JD/MBA?

The MBA adds no value now. You sound like you want to go into law. Then get the JD. Preserve the MBA for later if you decide to go that route. Maybe you'll get into a stronger program. Maybe you'll be able to go part time. Maybe you'll have useful work experience.

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Re: Indiana-Bloomington $ vs. Wake $$

Postby JamesChapman23 » Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:38 pm

danquayle wrote:
pbfoot wrote:
rad lulz wrote:OP I recommend doing more research, because your plan doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

I know it's not what the TLS crowd usually likes, but its really not too complicated. Let me lay it out so you can understand...not staying in LA because I can go back anyway, would like to go to school in NC but not if it means sacrificing quality, want a JD/MBA because...why not, and want to give a clerkship a try to see if its something I'm interested in. Research is exactly what I'm doing right now by writing on this forum.


Why not JD/MBA?

The MBA adds no value now. You sound like you want to go into law. Then get the JD. Preserve the MBA for later if you decide to go that route. Maybe you'll get into a stronger program. Maybe you'll be able to go part time. Maybe you'll have useful work experience.


Did you finish at IU, dan?

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danquayle
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Re: Indiana-Bloomington $ vs. Wake $$

Postby danquayle » Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:55 pm

JamesChapman23 wrote:
danquayle wrote:
pbfoot wrote:
rad lulz wrote:OP I recommend doing more research, because your plan doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

I know it's not what the TLS crowd usually likes, but its really not too complicated. Let me lay it out so you can understand...not staying in LA because I can go back anyway, would like to go to school in NC but not if it means sacrificing quality, want a JD/MBA because...why not, and want to give a clerkship a try to see if its something I'm interested in. Research is exactly what I'm doing right now by writing on this forum.


Why not JD/MBA?

The MBA adds no value now. You sound like you want to go into law. Then get the JD. Preserve the MBA for later if you decide to go that route. Maybe you'll get into a stronger program. Maybe you'll be able to go part time. Maybe you'll have useful work experience.


Did you finish at IU, dan?


Clarify.

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flem
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Re: Indiana-Bloomington $ vs. Wake $$

Postby flem » Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:12 am

romothesavior wrote:I think your father is probably a little biased being a consultant (not to mention being older, things have changed). Consulting is arguably one of the few jobs it would be especially beneficial to have a JD/MBA, but it's not like good consulting jobs just grow on trees. The value of an MBA and a JD individually have gone down; tacking them together doesn't double their value. Few lawyers really have any need for an MBA, and few businessmen have a need for a JD. I've even heard a lot of lawyers take a snide approach to JD/MBAs, as if the people getting them are just floating through law school without a real gameplan. I'd be pretty skeptical of the idea that they "double your job prospects." We're not saying a JD/MBA is always a bad idea, just that you should think about how it is actually going to help you in a concrete way. If it is going to help you, go for it. It's just something to consider.

Anyways, I stand by what I said earlier: if you are so sure you can get a good job no matter what, why are you looking to pay a lot of money for a degree? Go for free, get your JD/MBA if you are so inclined, and then go profit at this job you have locked up. It's not like a JD from IU-B or Wake Forest is going to impress anyone in the tech industry out in Cali or something. And if you want to clerk (odd given your desired career path), neither of these schools are pipelines to that kind of thing. As in like, your odds are <5%. I know you say you won't have debt, but that's still money spent. Unless 100k is just pocket change to you, I think you should be focusing on minimizing your costs.

Either way, good luck.


Pretty much all of this, my dude. Clerking isn't a realistic goal from these schools (assuming we're talking about AIII clerkships, not clerking at some TTT traffic court)

If you're going to law school to gain some sort of prestige from getting a JD, getting one from one of these schools probably isn't going to do it. You say yourself it's not required, so I'm guessing that's the reason that you're going - which is fine. But a JD/MBA from Indiana is not gonna blow any bros away in high powered agencies with Harvard degrees.

I know it's a cliche, but once you get outside of the select top few schools, everything else is only regionally respected. I'm from the south and Wake is considered a great school, but I wouldn't be surprised if anyone in California had never heard of it.




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