Gloom, Despair, and Agony On Me! Help Me Avoid It!

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TheJanitor
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Gloom, Despair, and Agony On Me! Help Me Avoid It!

Postby TheJanitor » Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:09 pm

My cousin graduated from Campbell Law in Raleigh, North Carolina last year and she was in the top 10% of her class but is yet to find employment as a lawyer. She is now working as an office manager making 35K and suffering from mass depression. I want to completely avoid what she is facing and want to know what range of law schools I should apply to to have the best chance at a job upon graduation. I know I need to get in somewhere as highly ranked as possible but at the same time I realize Yale is not in the picture. Is a school ranked in the top 100 too low, should I shoot for a school in the top 50 or 30?

These damn tier 3 and 4 law schools are criminals that market students with promises of riches and glory not to mention a job after graduation but all their students end up getting is DEBT and depression.

Please chime in with your opinions and advice.

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romothesavior
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Re: Gloom, Despair, and Agony On Me! Help Me Avoid It!

Postby romothesavior » Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:10 pm

It is all about risk v. reward. If you can go for free in the area where you are from, then a T2/3 isn't terrible. But if you are going to spend a lot of money, you better go to a T14 or at least a solid T1. The worst situation you can put yourself in is to be unemployed with a ton of debt.

TheJanitor
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Re: Gloom, Despair, and Agony On Me! Help Me Avoid It!

Postby TheJanitor » Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:15 pm

romothesavior wrote:It is all about risk v. reward. If you can go for free in the area where you are from, then a T2/3 isn't terrible. But if you are going to spend a lot of money, you better go to a T14 or at least a solid T1. The worst situation you can put yourself in is to be unemployed with a ton of debt.


I would not mind paying sticker at a better school if I can get a job.

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romothesavior
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Re: Gloom, Despair, and Agony On Me! Help Me Avoid It!

Postby romothesavior » Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:24 pm

TheJanitor wrote:
romothesavior wrote:It is all about risk v. reward. If you can go for free in the area where you are from, then a T2/3 isn't terrible. But if you are going to spend a lot of money, you better go to a T14 or at least a solid T1. The worst situation you can put yourself in is to be unemployed with a ton of debt.


I would not mind paying sticker at a better school if I can get a job.

The only schools objectively worth sticker right now are T14s, and probably only T6s. 150-200k+ in debt is not worth it unless you can likely get a job that pays well.

Sirius
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Re: Gloom, Despair, and Agony On Me! Help Me Avoid It!

Postby Sirius » Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:29 pm

1. Campbell is not good

2. Avoid law school

Your sisters story should have dissuaded you enough. Do you like being miserable and want to feel her pain or something?

timbs4339
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Re: Gloom, Despair, and Agony On Me! Help Me Avoid It!

Postby timbs4339 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:27 am

TheJanitor wrote:My cousin graduated from Campbell Law in Raleigh, North Carolina last year and she was in the top 10% of her class but is yet to find employment as a lawyer. She is now working as an office manager making 35K and suffering from mass depression. I want to completely avoid what she is facing and want to know what range of law schools I should apply to to have the best chance at a job upon graduation. I know I need to get in somewhere as highly ranked as possible but at the same time I realize Yale is not in the picture. Is a school ranked in the top 100 too low, should I shoot for a school in the top 50 or 30?

These damn tier 3 and 4 law schools are criminals that market students with promises of riches and glory not to mention a job after graduation but all their students end up getting is DEBT and depression.

Please chime in with your opinions and advice.


You need to go for somewhere uber cheap or uber elite. There really isn't much of a difference between law school 25 and law school 75. I know people at T20s who are a week from graduation with no job prospects- not even an interview in months.

We need more info. Where are you from and can get in-state tuition? What are your LSAT/GPA scores?

That's really horrible about your cousin. It is no small feat to get top 10% at any law school.

TheJanitor
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Re: Gloom, Despair, and Agony On Me! Help Me Avoid It!

Postby TheJanitor » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:30 am

timbs4339 wrote:
TheJanitor wrote:My cousin graduated from Campbell Law in Raleigh, North Carolina last year and she was in the top 10% of her class but is yet to find employment as a lawyer. She is now working as an office manager making 35K and suffering from mass depression. I want to completely avoid what she is facing and want to know what range of law schools I should apply to to have the best chance at a job upon graduation. I know I need to get in somewhere as highly ranked as possible but at the same time I realize Yale is not in the picture. Is a school ranked in the top 100 too low, should I shoot for a school in the top 50 or 30?

These damn tier 3 and 4 law schools are criminals that market students with promises of riches and glory not to mention a job after graduation but all their students end up getting is DEBT and depression.

Please chime in with your opinions and advice.


You need to go for somewhere uber cheap or uber elite. There really isn't much of a difference between law school 25 and law school 75. I know people at T20s who are a week from graduation with no job prospects- not even an interview in months.

We need more info. Where are you from and can get in-state tuition? What are your LSAT/GPA scores?

That's really horrible about your cousin. It is no small feat to get top 10% at any law school.


My GPA is 3.67, from Davidson
My LSAT is 169, took the test once but like I said Yale is not in the picture with a score like that
From North Carolina

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Ludo!
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Re: Gloom, Despair, and Agony On Me! Help Me Avoid It!

Postby Ludo! » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:39 am

Well the good news is your stats are good enough to avoid going to Campbell. How did your score compare to your PTs? I dont know if I would retake a 169 but you've got plenty of time so it couldn't hurt

TheJanitor
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Re: Gloom, Despair, and Agony On Me! Help Me Avoid It!

Postby TheJanitor » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:42 am

Ludovico Technique wrote:Well the good news is your stats are good enough to avoid going to Campbell. How did your score compare to your PTs? I dont know if I would retake a 169 but you've got plenty of time so it couldn't hurt


The PT's were between 171-175, I had one score of 166 but that was at the beginning of my prep

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Ludo!
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Re: Gloom, Despair, and Agony On Me! Help Me Avoid It!

Postby Ludo! » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:50 am

Given how much time you'd have I'd probably retake and try to get into your PT range.

fakehunter
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Re: Gloom, Despair, and Agony On Me! Help Me Avoid It!

Postby fakehunter » Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:05 am

OP, I have stats very similar to yours (3.65/169, two tests though first at 162) and I had a cycle I'm quite happy with. In at Michigan, UCLA, Vandy, USC, WUSTL and a few other schools in the top 30. Also just got off the waitlist at Duke. So if your cycle goes anything like mine, you should have pretty good choices. (I also didn't apply to very many top 14 schools, so the options could be even better for you.)

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pixleprincess
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Re: Gloom, Despair, and Agony On Me! Help Me Avoid It!

Postby pixleprincess » Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:16 am

Between your numbers and residency you could attend UNC with some solid $ i imagine. 38k/yr - maybe 10k-30k/yr in scholarship isn't bad for a top 30. Also sounds like you're in a great position to retake for better shot at $$$ or to move up a couple spots in rankings.

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sach1282
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Re: Gloom, Despair, and Agony On Me! Help Me Avoid It!

Postby sach1282 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:21 am

I had an almost identical LSDAS GPA and an identical (second) LSAT score. I took the test 3 times. My cycle just concluded. Check out http://lawschoolnumbers.com/sach1282 to see how it worked out.

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20160810
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Re: Gloom, Despair, and Agony On Me! Help Me Avoid It!

Postby 20160810 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:24 am

If you're in NC, then UNC w/in-state tuition is actually really solid for a so-so school. Wouldn't go anywhere ranked lower though.

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Tadatsune
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Re: Gloom, Despair, and Agony On Me! Help Me Avoid It!

Postby Tadatsune » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:50 am

TheJanitor wrote:My GPA is 3.67, from Davidson
My LSAT is 169, took the test once but like I said Yale is not in the picture with a score like that
From North Carolina


The PT's were between 171-175, I had one score of 166 but that was at the beginning of my prep


My goodness, retake.

You may not be able to get Yale with that GPA, but if you can get your PT average, you'll be looking at T6 or T14 with cash. (I have the same GPA as you. Got a 173 on my third take, and now am headed to a T6.)

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rickgrimes69
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Re: Gloom, Despair, and Agony On Me! Help Me Avoid It!

Postby rickgrimes69 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:33 am

I'd say retake and try to get into your PT range, but you stand a decent shot at some lesser T14s regardless. I have similar stats to you (slightly higher GPA) and I got in at Cornell, GULC, NU, and ultimately decided on Duke with money.

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2LsAPlenty
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Re: Gloom, Despair, and Agony On Me! Help Me Avoid It!

Postby 2LsAPlenty » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:53 am

Good advice all around here so far. The story you tell is not that unusual, just not well documented. Check out the ABA 2011 reports on the schools. Most get 5-10% into big law with six figure salary starting pay. It goes down very fast from there.

TheJanitor
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Re: Gloom, Despair, and Agony On Me! Help Me Avoid It!

Postby TheJanitor » Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:47 am

I have decided to take the LSAT again in October.

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romothesavior
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Re: Gloom, Despair, and Agony On Me! Help Me Avoid It!

Postby romothesavior » Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:06 pm

TheJanitor wrote:I have decided to take the LSAT again in October.

Good stuff OP! Make sure you use some of the great LSAT threads on TLS as resources. I'd also recommend doing a little soul searching as to why exactly you want to go to law school and be a lawyer. It is something that everyone should be able to answer before they take the plunge.

Best of luck.

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Na_Swatch
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Re: Gloom, Despair, and Agony On Me! Help Me Avoid It!

Postby Na_Swatch » Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:27 pm

romothesavior wrote:
TheJanitor wrote:I have decided to take the LSAT again in October.

Good stuff OP! Make sure you use some of the great LSAT threads on TLS as resources. I'd also recommend doing a little soul searching as to why exactly you want to go to law school and be a lawyer. It is something that everyone should be able to answer before they take the plunge.

Best of luck.


Definitely the best decision... If you can score higher you'll have awesome choices near your area including UNC for free, Duke with $$, or Vandy with $$$ which would all meet the threshold for making it a good choice to go to Law School.

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rayiner
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Re: Gloom, Despair, and Agony On Me! Help Me Avoid It!

Postby rayiner » Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:31 pm

TheJanitor wrote:
Ludovico Technique wrote:Well the good news is your stats are good enough to avoid going to Campbell. How did your score compare to your PTs? I dont know if I would retake a 169 but you've got plenty of time so it couldn't hurt


The PT's were between 171-175, I had one score of 166 but that was at the beginning of my prep


You're obviously not applying to start this fall, so why not retake in September? A 3.67/169 should get you into Vandy/UCLA/Texas at sticker or with a small scholarship. But if you had a 166 diagnostic, you should be bale to hit 175+ easily, which will get you into Chicago/Columbia and a large scholarship at the lower T14. At those schools employment wouldn't be a sure thing, but as long as you finished in the top 3/4 of the class you'd get a big firm job.

TheJanitor
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Re: Gloom, Despair, and Agony On Me! Help Me Avoid It!

Postby TheJanitor » Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:12 pm

rayiner wrote:
TheJanitor wrote:
Ludovico Technique wrote:Well the good news is your stats are good enough to avoid going to Campbell. How did your score compare to your PTs? I dont know if I would retake a 169 but you've got plenty of time so it couldn't hurt


The PT's were between 171-175, I had one score of 166 but that was at the beginning of my prep


You're obviously not applying to start this fall, so why not retake in September? A 3.67/169 should get you into Vandy/UCLA/Texas at sticker or with a small scholarship. But if you had a 166 diagnostic, you should be bale to hit 175+ easily, which will get you into Chicago/Columbia and a large scholarship at the lower T14. At those schools employment wouldn't be a sure thing, but as long as you finished in the top 3/4 of the class you'd get a big firm job.


Did you mean to say September because that is not an option on the LSAC LSAT registration page, however I do have the December option but would that be too late for consideration to top schools?

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romothesavior
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Re: Gloom, Despair, and Agony On Me! Help Me Avoid It!

Postby romothesavior » Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:20 pm

October/September is the same test. Sometimes it falls in September, other times it falls in October. I think Rayiner may have missed the part where you said you are retaking, so essentially you are doing what he suggested.

TheJanitor
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Re: Gloom, Despair, and Agony On Me! Help Me Avoid It!

Postby TheJanitor » Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:23 pm

romothesavior wrote:October/September is the same test. Sometimes it falls in September, other times it falls in October. I think Rayiner may have missed the part where you said you are retaking, so essentially you are doing what he suggested.


Oh, thanks for clarifying that.

woeisme
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Re: Gloom, Despair, and Agony On Me! Help Me Avoid It!

Postby woeisme » Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:27 pm

TheJanitor wrote:My GPA is 3.67, from Davidson
My LSAT is 169, took the test once but like I said Yale is not in the picture with a score like that
From North Carolina


You're fucked. No, just kidding. Those are pretty good stats and Davidson is a good school too (not that that matters that much actually). You're competitive for PMVBDCNG (Penn, Michigan, Virginia, Berkeley, Duke, Cornell, Northwestern, and GULC). Maybe less so for Northwestern if you don't have work experience, actually. Anyway, you're not a shoo-in at any one of them, but odds are very much in your favor that you'll make it into at least one. So apply to all that interest you. And apply to any other school that places in your market of interest. With your stats, you're not going to be having to settle for a TTT like Campbell.

TheJanitor wrote:I have decided to take the LSAT again in October.


Or this would be credited too. Nice.[/quote]
Last edited by woeisme on Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.




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