Chicago (100k in loans) vs. NYU (150k in loans) Forum

[JollyGreenGiant]

I've assisted OP via pms, but the turn this thread has taken compels me to post ITT as well.

If Bils and JollyGreenGiant are being a little abrasive, it's probably because many advice givers here seem atrociously misguided. Specifically, a number of posters have emphasized that 'the cost of traveling will chip away at that 50k difference' while conveniently ignoring two facts: 1) OP's gf is coming with him so he's unlikely to travel to NYC all that frequently and 2) COL differential between Chicago and NYC is IMMENSE. You know how I know? I know because I've spent first two years of lawl school at UChi and I'm at CLS for my third year (for personal reasons that don't at all reflect on my home school). While in Chicago, I lived in a large studio in the best part of the city for 775 a month (all utilities included). At CLS, I pay 1,250 a month for my share of rent in - wait for it - a subsidized, supposedly very cost-effective apartment. My loans have gone up by THOUSANDS due to the COL difference alone. And this is Morningside Heights, a.k.a. the least prestigious part of Manhattan. Which is to say, OP is likely to cough up at least 500 bucks extra in rent each month living around NYU.

Btw, I lived on the Chi-NYC relation throughout all of my 2L before going off to CLS. Total cost of airfare? Less than 1500 when all was said and done. Seriously.

Moving along to address some of the speculation in re: employment prospects, whatever 'advantage' OP gains by hanging out with NYU junior biglawl associates may well be outweighed by the fact that, at UChi, he'd be competing with fewer classmates for NYC biglawl. From what I've heard, firms do like some diversity in their SA classes. Thus, OP may well be advantaged by the small class size coupled with a lesser level of overall interest in NYC biglawl. In etiher case, the marginal benefit of lunching with a first year associate in NYC is immensely outweighed by the fact that OP's loans will be reduced by a third, if not more, if he chooses Chicago.

Lastly, I don't know why anyone assumes that OP is somehow going to wind up miserable outside of NYC. OP's a big boy, and as he's said to me at least, he's down to experience another city. Plenty of NYC natives go to UChi, enjoy themselves and return home, and they're no worse for the experience of having stepped out of the Big Apple for three short years of their lives.

The only factor that really gives me pause here is SO's gf. If she doesn't wind up liking Chicago and doesn't wind up getting a job she's all right with, she may well take her frustration out on him. But this is a risk people take. FWIW, it never materialized with any of my classmates whose SOs came along.

OP here. Agree with all of this.

I'm glad I've spawned a thread that has gone this long, and I appreciate the discussion, but I don't know why some people voting NYU were trying to convince me that the COL differences will almost even out due to travel and whatnot--the gap is WAY too huge between the two cities. Prices in the village are insane (although well worth it IMO ). I also think that there are a LOT of reasons to pick UChi over NYU even if all else is equal.

In the end, I'm going to law school with the aim of joining a profession. As I suggested in my OP, I subscribe to the view that although each location/school has its own unique attributes, ultimately, whether you're "happy" at any given place will be more a measure of your own personality and temperament than anything else. The great concern strangers have shown for my relationship with my SO is very thoughtful , but I don't think the distance will be an insurmountable obstacle. And if it is for anyone who's in a similar situation, saving more than $50,000 in loans should be an incentive to get over it .

Thanks again!

ETA: One last bit--between this and the other "UChi Students Taking Questions" thread, I have noticed that there are a few UChi TLSers who really need to chill the fuck out and stop taking the internet so seriously.

You seem to know what you're talking about...

If anything, the distance can be a positive. I currently do something similar (though not Chi--> NYC). The distance can be a great test on the relationship. If your SO puts up with you through the 1L year (and rest of law school), it seems likely you guys could persevere through almost anything. Also, if you're anything like me, you will hate doing a lot of work around your SO. If you're far away, you can gun to your little heart's desire without feeling bad about anything. Of course, it certainly has more downsides than positives, but there are some hidden positives.

As for the UChicago thread, I would've had to second-think going there after reading that. However, I chalk it up to stressed out 1Ls rather than the school. I will say that you WILL find people with similar interests as you. There is a large contingent at that school that are awesome. There are some that aren't as much. Some of those happen to post on TLS...

And someone called me out as an asshole on this thread for noting that location for 1L year is mostly moot and that airfare doesn't cost $50,000? Harsh crowd.


Best of luck to you, OP. It seems like you've done enough due diligence that whatever decision you make will be the correct one.

[dresden doll]

These posts make me wonder what's going on in all these 'Uchi people taking questions' threads.

[chasgoose]

Because we recognize that there is more to picking a law school than just prestige and money offered. I'm already going to spend my mid-20's in law school, no need to spend them languishing in Hyde Park.

Spoken like a true 0L.

I'm a 1L. As a 0L I probably would have said/taken Chicago. Now that I am in law school, and realize how important having a decent surrounding area is to me (not to everybody) and how it is the thin gray line protecting me from going insane, I never would have picked Chicago. Granted I was WL at Chicago and NYU was cheaper than CLS by $25k.

[$$$$$$]

Honestly, the amount of networking you could do in NYC is probably worth the $50K more you'll spend. YOu could get lunch with big law partners every week. If you want NYC, go to NYU.

Really? ...

Can someone comment on this...?

It's true. I often email random biglaw partners asking them to have lunch with me, a law student they have no reason to know or care about. The email I get back is always the same: "Maybe if you went to NYU."

Are you seriously questioning that statement? You have a lot to learn about the world if you think my statement "needs commenting." There are tons of NYU law grads at NYC big law firms (no shit), not hitting up alumni partners in the area you want to work in would be idiotic. Unless you have great grades or a terrible personality, then its not worth it. But i know tons of people, including myself, who did this and ended up in a great spot because of it.

[kwais]

for serious, what is with the proliferation of "if you disagree with or question me, you must be a noob" shit on TLS lately. Makes people sound like, well, noobs.

[concurrent fork]

These posts make me wonder what's going on in all these 'Uchi people taking questions' threads.

TBF, there has been some particularly egregious UChi trolling in these types of threads lately. Mostly taipeibro. Telling 0Ls UChi is better for Boston biglaw than HLS (http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 0#p5380999) and also that UChi would have 100% Art III clerkship placement if not for self-selection (http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 5#p5446121)

Anyway, these are both reasonable options and I'm glad this thread helped you decide, OP

[dresden doll]

I'm a 1L. As a 0L I probably would have said/taken Chicago. Now that I am in law school, and realize how important having a decent surrounding area is to me (not to everybody) and how it is the thin gray line protecting me from going insane, I never would have picked Chicago. Granted I was WL at Chicago and NYU was cheaper than CLS by $25k.

So you don't live in HP. I never did. Bus 2 exists for a reason.

[GoodFood]

Because we recognize that there is more to picking a law school than just prestige and money offered. I'm already going to spend my mid-20's in law school, no need to spend them languishing in Hyde Park.

Spoken like a true 0L.

I'm a 1L. As a 0L I probably would have said/taken Chicago. Now that I am in law school, and realize how important having a decent surrounding area is to me (not to everybody) and how it is the thin gray line protecting me from going insane, I never would have picked Chicago. Granted I was WL at Chicago and NYU was cheaper than CLS by $25k.

To the bolded: I understand this completely (really, I do), but how do you know 1) you wouldn't be equally happy somewhere else and 2) I concede that I'd be "happier" at NYU, but the point often ignored here is...is that really worth an extra 50k + interest?

I mean...I'd be happy driving a Ferrari too (really, I would).

[dixiecupdrinking]

Because we recognize that there is more to picking a law school than just prestige and money offered. I'm already going to spend my mid-20's in law school, no need to spend them languishing in Hyde Park.

Spoken like a true 0L.

I'm a 1L. As a 0L I probably would have said/taken Chicago. Now that I am in law school, and realize how important having a decent surrounding area is to me (not to everybody) and how it is the thin gray line protecting me from going insane, I never would have picked Chicago. Granted I was WL at Chicago and NYU was cheaper than CLS by $25k.

To the bolded: I understand this completely (really, I do), but how do you know 1) you wouldn't be equally happy somewhere else and 2) I concede that I'd be "happier" at NYU, but the point often ignored here is...is that really worth an extra 50k + interest?

I mean...I'd be happy driving a Ferrari too (really, I would).

1) No one knows this, ever.
2) That is solely up to you. This is the kind of value that is literally impossible to treat objectively. That said, there are choices that nobody would support, like, "50k at Chicago over sticker at Fordham." This isn't one of them.

I don't think anyone's ignoring anything. You seemed to be looking for support for the "irrational" choice of taking NYU over Chicago so people are tailoring their responses to that end. Some think there can be reasons good enough to justify it, some don't.

[chasgoose]

Because we recognize that there is more to picking a law school than just prestige and money offered. I'm already going to spend my mid-20's in law school, no need to spend them languishing in Hyde Park.

Spoken like a true 0L.

I'm a 1L. As a 0L I probably would have said/taken Chicago. Now that I am in law school, and realize how important having a decent surrounding area is to me (not to everybody) and how it is the thin gray line protecting me from going insane, I never would have picked Chicago. Granted I was WL at Chicago and NYU was cheaper than CLS by $25k.

To the bolded: I understand this completely (really, I do), but how do you know 1) you wouldn't be equally happy somewhere else and 2) I concede that I'd be "happier" at NYU, but the point often ignored here is...is that really worth an extra 50k + interest?

I mean...I'd be happy driving a Ferrari too (really, I would).

I know because I lived in a small semi-isolated city for college and didn't like it and I'm the type of person who places a high subjective value on living in an urban environment (which Hyde Park is not). I visited a friend at Chicago two weeks ago and would never want to live there if I didn't have to. To make the living environment remotely similar to NYU I would probably live in Chicago proper and commute. That would add a lot of time going to and from school that I wouldn't have otherwise. Relying on a bus is a pain in the ass... That's another cost. Alternatively I could get a car, but then I would have to pay to park it and for the car itself. Also the law school is relatively isolated from apartments, stores, restaurants, etc. Another cost. Those things are important to me, they might not be as crucial to others. My point is that NYU offers environmental benefits over Chicago that are subjectively valued. For me (and others) those things would make the actual difference in value far closer than the objective difference of $50k...

[GoodFood]

I know because I lived in a small semi-isolated city for college and didn't like it and I'm the type of person who places a high subjective value on living in an urban environment (which Hyde Park is not). I visited a friend at Chicago two weeks ago and would never want to live there if I didn't have to. To make the living environment remotely similar to NYU I would probably live in Chicago proper and commute. That would add a lot of time going to and from school that I wouldn't have otherwise. Relying on a bus is a pain in the ass... That's another cost. Alternatively I could get a car, but then I would have to pay to park it and for the car itself. Also the law school is relatively isolated from apartments, stores, restaurants, etc. Another cost. Those things are important to me, they might not be as crucial to others. My point is that NYU offers environmental benefits over Chicago that are subjectively valued. For me (and others) those things would make the actual difference in value far closer than the objective difference of $50k...

This level of self-awareness is impressive.

[flightcontrol]

Two things.

(1) Law school is an investment, but it's also three years of your life. Some of my fondest moments have been at law school in the company of friends. You're already ponying up a lot of money for a better tomorrow. Don't pony up your happiness too.

(2) Far more important than any overall difference between C and N is your own performance relative to your class. If you are happy, you will do better. If you do better, you will have access to better jobs.

Weigh both (1) and (2) against $50,000 plus interest. For me, it would be a no-brainer, but I understand that you may value the money more. I wish you well.

[dresden doll]

Two things.

(1) Law school is an investment, but it's also three years of your life. Some of my fondest moments have been at law school in the company of friends. You're already ponying up a lot of money for a better tomorrow. Don't pony up your happiness too.

This is, of course, assuming that going to UChi would be the functional equivalent of 'ponying up' one's happiness. If the reasoning in this thread were universally shared, not a single NYC native would ever choose a non-NYC school over Columbia or NYU. Yet people do it all the time and somehow emerge unscathed.

And once again, we're talking 50k+COA differential+interest on those two combined.

[chasgoose]

Two things.

(1) Law school is an investment, but it's also three years of your life. Some of my fondest moments have been at law school in the company of friends. You're already ponying up a lot of money for a better tomorrow. Don't pony up your happiness too.

This is, of course, assuming that going to UChi would be the functional equivalent of 'ponying up' one's happiness. If the reasoning in this thread were universally shared, not a single NYC native would ever choose a non-NYC school over Columbia or NYU. Yet people do it all the time and somehow emerge unscathed.

And once again, we're talking 50k+COA differential+interest on those two combined.

That's the point the reasoning in this thread ISN'T universally shared. The idea is that for people like me, the difference in cost between going to Chicago and going to NYU wouldn't necessarily be $50k in this case (and I thought the OP said it was $50k including COA, if its $50k+COA I probably still would have gone to Chicago). I would either have to pay the cost of not having the things that were important to me (as frivolous as they may be) or having them, but paying for them which would reduce the objective value of Chicago. Most people are more flexible than I am.

[GoodFood]

(If this wasn't obvious): For those who care, I decided that Chicago ultimately makes the most sense, especially because I did some more serious math/planning, and the difference between the schools actually exceeds far beyond 50k.

[dixiecupdrinking]

Best of luck to you.

[lsdream]

(If this wasn't obvious): For those who care, I decided that Chicago ultimately makes the most sense, especially because I did some more serious math/planning, and the difference between the schools actually exceeds far beyond 50k.

I'll see you next fall in Hyde Park!

[skers]

(If this wasn't obvious): For those who care, I decided that Chicago ultimately makes the most sense, especially because I did some more serious math/planning, and the difference between the schools actually exceeds far beyond 50k.

I'll see you next fall in Hyde Park!