American (sticker) v. Hofstra ($40k).

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dibs
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American (sticker) v. Hofstra ($40k).

Postby dibs » Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:36 pm

g/f just got off the waitlist at American. putting her seat deposit down right now.

we're in VA, and she has been her whole life. family is here and living and working in DC in her dream. that being said, sticker at American with living expenses is pretty insane.

she doesn't have any interest in going to Hofstra or long island, but she was offered $40k/year conditional (as Hofstra does it). top40% keeps it all, top 50% keeps 1/2, top 60% keeps 1/4.

my recommendation is American given her interests, but wanted to see what TLS thinks.

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flem
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Re: American (sticker) v. Hofstra ($40k).

Postby flem » Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:38 pm

These are both horrible options, especially at that price. LSAT/GPA and career goals? Age?

Either one is going to put you guys in crippling debt.

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Re: American (sticker) v. Hofstra ($40k).

Postby timbs4339 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:39 pm

dibs wrote:g/f just got off the waitlist at American. putting her seat deposit down right now.

we're in VA, and she has been her whole life. family is here and living and working in DC in her dream. that being said, sticker at American with living expenses is pretty insane.

she doesn't have any interest in going to Hofstra or long island, but she was offered $40k/year conditional (as Hofstra does it). top40% keeps it all, top 50% keeps 1/2, top 60% keeps 1/4.

my recommendation is American given her interests, but wanted to see what TLS thinks.


Your recommendation is wrong. Why do you want to see your girlfriend 200K in debt for crappy job prospects? Tell her to wait a year and retake. DC is one of the most competitive markets in the country and American is a small fish. I would not advise her to take on that much debt for GW or even possibly Georgetown, let alone American.

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dibs
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Re: American (sticker) v. Hofstra ($40k).

Postby dibs » Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:41 pm

flem wrote:These are both horrible options, especially at that price. LSAT/GPA and career goals? Age?

Either one is going to put you guys in crippling debt.


161 / 2.x? non-URM. age is 31. career options are nothing, basically. she was a small business owner and her store burned down in a fire. got screwed by insurance, lost all her equity. no rebuild.

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romothesavior
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Re: American (sticker) v. Hofstra ($40k).

Postby romothesavior » Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:44 pm

dibs wrote:
flem wrote:These are both horrible options, especially at that price. LSAT/GPA and career goals? Age?

Either one is going to put you guys in crippling debt.


161 / 2.x? non-URM. age is 31. career options are nothing, basically. she was a small business owner and her store burned down in a fire. got screwed by insurance, lost all her equity. no rebuild.

Sounds like a pretty awful situation, and I'm really sorry to hear it. However, law school is probably not the answer. American at sticker is DEFINITELY not the answer. This is a really, really bad call, and you both will regret this if she goes this route. This kind of debt is not smart given the likely job prospects at graduation, especially at 31 years old.

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Re: American (sticker) v. Hofstra ($40k).

Postby Paul Campos » Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:45 pm

Do you have a job? How do you plan to pay the bills while she's in school? *If* you can work full-time in LI I'd say that Hofstra is clearly the lesser of two evils here. If she doesn't finish in the top 40% she can drop out. If she does *and* you have a job she can graduate with very little debt and can pursue a legal career although anything in DC will probably be out of the question.

American at sticker in her situation is an indescribably bad idea.

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romothesavior
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Re: American (sticker) v. Hofstra ($40k).

Postby romothesavior » Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:46 pm

OP, please note that the above poster is a law professor, so I'd take that opinion to heart.

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dibs
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Re: American (sticker) v. Hofstra ($40k).

Postby dibs » Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:48 pm

Paul Campos wrote:Do you have a job? How do you plan to pay the bills while she's in school? *If* you can work full-time in LI I'd say that Hofstra is clearly the lesser of two evils here. If she doesn't finish in the top 40% she can drop out. If she does *and* you have a job she can graduate with very little debt and can pursue a legal career although anything in DC will probably be out of the question.

American at sticker in her situation is an indescribably bad idea.


i'm probably worse than having no job. i'm a rising 3L in VA, but also an international student.

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flem
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Re: American (sticker) v. Hofstra ($40k).

Postby flem » Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:49 pm

dibs wrote:
161 / 2.x? non-URM. age is 31. career options are nothing, basically. she was a small business owner and her store burned down in a fire. got screwed by insurance, lost all her equity. no rebuild.


That's rough man. I feel for you. However, going to American and incurring 200-250K in debt for mediocre job prospects is not the remedy.

Given the age, circumstances and GPA law school really might be a bad decision in general. A retake would only do so much good and I'm not sure if you're willing to uproot your life for midwestern splitter-friendly schools with better job prospects.

DC and NYC are both hyper competitive and these schools are too expensive and too far down in the pecking order to justify going.

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flem
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Re: American (sticker) v. Hofstra ($40k).

Postby flem » Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:49 pm

dibs wrote:
i'm probably worse than having no job. i'm a rising 3L in VA, but also an international student.


Which Virginia school? Is it an option for her to go there?

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Re: American (sticker) v. Hofstra ($40k).

Postby Paul Campos » Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:50 pm

dibs wrote:
Paul Campos wrote:Do you have a job? How do you plan to pay the bills while she's in school? *If* you can work full-time in LI I'd say that Hofstra is clearly the lesser of two evils here. If she doesn't finish in the top 40% she can drop out. If she does *and* you have a job she can graduate with very little debt and can pursue a legal career although anything in DC will probably be out of the question.

American at sticker in her situation is an indescribably bad idea.


i'm probably worse than having no job. i'm a rising 3L in VA, but also an international student.



Which school?

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dibs
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Re: American (sticker) v. Hofstra ($40k).

Postby dibs » Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:50 pm

flem wrote:
dibs wrote:
i'm probably worse than having no job. i'm a rising 3L in VA, but also an international student.


Which Virginia school? Is it an option for her to go there?


university of richmond. she applied and is on the waitlist. if she got in off the waitlist at american i'd assume she has a good shot getting off at UR. that would probably be the best option, i think.

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dibs
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Re: American (sticker) v. Hofstra ($40k).

Postby dibs » Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:51 pm

Paul Campos wrote:
dibs wrote:
Paul Campos wrote:Do you have a job? How do you plan to pay the bills while she's in school? *If* you can work full-time in LI I'd say that Hofstra is clearly the lesser of two evils here. If she doesn't finish in the top 40% she can drop out. If she does *and* you have a job she can graduate with very little debt and can pursue a legal career although anything in DC will probably be out of the question.

American at sticker in her situation is an indescribably bad idea.


i'm probably worse than having no job. i'm a rising 3L in VA, but also an international student.



Which school?


university of richmond.

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flem
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Re: American (sticker) v. Hofstra ($40k).

Postby flem » Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:51 pm

dibs wrote:
university of richmond. she applied and is on the waitlist. if she got in off the waitlist at american i'd assume she has a good shot getting off at UR. that would probably be the best option, i think.


Another factor just become relevant: how much debt do YOU have?

Worst case scenario you could have 400K debt BEFORE INTEREST if she goes. That is terrifying.

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dibs
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Re: American (sticker) v. Hofstra ($40k).

Postby dibs » Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:52 pm

i'll have $60k at the end of third year in canadian loans, which i think are a little more forgiving in terms of payback mechanisms and interest accrual.

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Re: American (sticker) v. Hofstra ($40k).

Postby Paul Campos » Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:53 pm

dibs wrote:
Paul Campos wrote:
dibs wrote:
Paul Campos wrote:Do you have a job? How do you plan to pay the bills while she's in school? *If* you can work full-time in LI I'd say that Hofstra is clearly the lesser of two evils here. If she doesn't finish in the top 40% she can drop out. If she does *and* you have a job she can graduate with very little debt and can pursue a legal career although anything in DC will probably be out of the question.

American at sticker in her situation is an indescribably bad idea.


i'm probably worse than having no job. i'm a rising 3L in VA, but also an international student.



Which school?


university of richmond.



How much debt do you have? Any job prospects currently?

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flem
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Re: American (sticker) v. Hofstra ($40k).

Postby flem » Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:55 pm

dibs wrote:i'll have $60k at the end of third year in canadian loans, which i think are a little more forgiving in terms of payback mechanisms and interest accrual.


That's actually not bad. Note to self: move to Canada

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dibs
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Re: American (sticker) v. Hofstra ($40k).

Postby dibs » Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:57 pm

Paul Campos wrote:How much debt do you have? Any job prospects currently?


i'll have $60k after graduation. looking bad on the job prospect front. did a DA internship last summer, doing a clinical in-house placement for 6 weeks this summer. after that nothing. i have decent grades, 4-years impressive career experience, and good extra-curriculars, but the non-top10%, non-lawreview, non-UScitizen thing is hard to overcome.

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Re: American (sticker) v. Hofstra ($40k).

Postby timbs4339 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:04 pm

dibs wrote:
Paul Campos wrote:How much debt do you have? Any job prospects currently?


i'll have $60k after graduation. looking bad on the job prospect front. did a DA internship last summer, doing a clinical in-house placement for 6 weeks this summer. after that nothing. i have decent grades, 4-years impressive career experience, and good extra-curriculars, but the non-top10%, non-lawreview, non-UScitizen thing is hard to overcome.


Sorry to hear that. But your girlfriend will have an equally tough road to secure employment out of Hofstra, where job prospects are pretty bad and basically regional. At American, she will take on immense amounts of debt for pretty equally awful job prospects. 200K in student loan debt in the American system is going to have a huge impact on your standard of living for 10-20 years and will make it so much harder to attain a middle class life.

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dibs
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Re: American (sticker) v. Hofstra ($40k).

Postby dibs » Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:08 pm

timbs4339 wrote:
dibs wrote:
Paul Campos wrote:How much debt do you have? Any job prospects currently?


i'll have $60k after graduation. looking bad on the job prospect front. did a DA internship last summer, doing a clinical in-house placement for 6 weeks this summer. after that nothing. i have decent grades, 4-years impressive career experience, and good extra-curriculars, but the non-top10%, non-lawreview, non-UScitizen thing is hard to overcome.


Sorry to hear that. But your girlfriend will have an equally tough road to secure employment out of Hofstra, where job prospects are pretty bad and basically regional. At American, she will take on immense amounts of debt for pretty equally awful job prospects. 200K in student loan debt in the American system is going to have a huge impact on your standard of living for 10-20 years and will make it so much harder to attain a middle class life.


appreciate the comments. can always rely on TLS for hard truths.

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Re: American (sticker) v. Hofstra ($40k).

Postby Paul Campos » Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:09 pm

dibs wrote:
Paul Campos wrote:How much debt do you have? Any job prospects currently?


i'll have $60k after graduation. looking bad on the job prospect front. did a DA internship last summer, doing a clinical in-house placement for 6 weeks this summer. after that nothing. i have decent grades, 4-years impressive career experience, and good extra-curriculars, but the non-top10%, non-lawreview, non-UScitizen thing is hard to overcome.


Sorry that this sounds like a tough situation all around for the two of you. Your partner realizes that even though you are doing better overall in terms of resume than the median Richmond student you don't have much in the way of post-graduation job prospects, correct? If she goes to American then three years from now the two of you will be looking at something approaching $300K in debt, plus your piece of it isn't IBR-eligible. Don't make a bad situation worse by making a panic move.




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