NU vs Irvine vs UPacific vs others

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Where I should go

Northwestern/ UVA (if I get in). Sticker.
20
56%
UC Irvine 15k/ yr (instate)
10
28%
UC Hastings 15k/ yr (instate)
3
8%
UPacific 30k/ yr
3
8%
 
Total votes: 36

ryemanhattan
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NU vs Irvine vs UPacific vs others

Postby ryemanhattan » Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:03 pm

Jesus I do not know what to do. Also on waitlists at NYU and UVA. Love NU but I do not think I can hang with 250k debt. Same for NYU. UVA, at a slightly lower pricetag, would be rather appealing.

I'm leaning towards buying an RV and going to Irvine. I'll come out with around 160k debt. Seems like an awesome law school. Orange County is seductive (although gross) and I like to surf. If I stick with the RV plan debt could be much lower.

Hastings is appealing bc I live in east Oakland and wouldn't need to move. My rent is dirt cheap. And their decision to cut 20% of their class size next year is highly commendable. Also, around 160k debt. Everyone at Hastings seems really f*&king stressed out.

UPacific is enticing b/c Sacramento is cheap, and I figure I could bartend part time and still get straight As there... minimal debt is appealing. If I can't find work in Sacramento after 3 years of law school there, despite the non-prestige of the law school, fuck me. total debt 80k, not including bartending, summer jobs. I think I could knock it down to 40k, easy. Nice little campus and Sac nightlife/culture has come a long way. Appealing too, b/c I wouldn't have to completely give my life up in the bay area.

I'm interested in election law/ campaign finance issues, which make Irvine, Pacific, UVA all appropriate choices. I may be looking for big firm work right after school to knock down debt, which only Irvine will give me a (small) shot at (outside of NU, UVA, NYU, obviously).

JasonR
Posts: 421
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Re: NU vs Irvine vs UPacific vs others

Postby JasonR » Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:46 am

Can you do something to make costs more clear in your poll? Like put the actual total cost of attendance for each option? This incomplete mix of cost and scholly info doesn't help anyone tell you anything. Most of us here don't know what in-state tuition is at Irvine and Hastings and aren't going to go out of our way to look it up.

Can you also clarify why you think you'd make straight As at Pacific? Do you think that's so because you got into NU? Law school definitely doesn't work that way.

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boredatwork
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Re: NU vs Irvine vs UPacific vs others

Postby boredatwork » Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:53 am

I wouldn't even consider Pacific, unless you can leverage a full ride from them. Being able to eat wonder bread straight from the factory is cool and all but Irvine and Hastings have other things to offer.... like job placement. Where do you want to practice? Northern and Southern California are pretty much different states (as I am sure you know) so I would think that would influence your decision. Irvine for so cal Hastings for Nor Cal.

I don't think you should work no matter where you go, even at a lower rank UOP is still a tier 2 school, it won't be that much easier than a tier 1.

timbs4339
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Re: NU vs Irvine vs UPacific vs others

Postby timbs4339 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:03 am

ryemanhattan wrote:UPacific is enticing b/c Sacramento is cheap, and I figure I could bartend part time and still get straight As there...


lol no.

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twenty
Posts: 3153
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Re: NU vs Irvine vs UPacific vs others

Postby twenty » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:52 pm

Northwestern. I'd rather have 250k of debt with an NU JD than even 150k from UCI.

You'll be working long hours for the next several years, though. :x

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kapital98
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Re: NU vs Irvine vs UPacific vs others

Postby kapital98 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:21 pm

ryemanhattan wrote:UPacific is enticing b/c Sacramento is cheap, and I figure I could bartend part time and still get straight As there... minimal debt is appealing. If I can't find work in Sacramento after 3 years of law school there, despite the non-prestige of the law school, fuck me. total debt 80k, not including bartending, summer jobs. I think I could knock it down to 40k, easy. Nice little campus and Sac nightlife/culture has come a long way. Appealing too, b/c I wouldn't have to completely give my life up in the bay area.


What??? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

It doesn't matter how well you did in undergrad, you'll be lucky to get a single "A" at UPacific. All of your previous accomplishments (LSAT, GPA, Softs) don't mean anything. Until you've been through 1L you have _no_ idea how well you will do.

That's why everyone cautions against high debt and bad merit-aid stipulations. How well you did in undergrad compared to your fellow students is a terrible predictor of how well you will do in law school. You may get A's, you may get C's. You just don't know.

ryemanhattan
Posts: 121
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:31 pm

Re: NU vs Irvine vs UPacific vs others

Postby ryemanhattan » Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:54 pm

Ok "straight A's" is totally presumptuous. But it isn't unreasonable to think that a potential student wouldn't finish higher in their class at a T2 than they would at a more elite school. I wouldn't be considering law school at all if I didn't think I had the chops. I know law school grades are somewhat unpredictable, but if you write well, can retain knowledge easily and remain calm under pressure, you should be fine. I'm confident I would outperform the majority of my classmates at Pacific.

Re: working during law school... I certainly wouldn't work in my first semester, and bartending two nights a week could only be about 10-15 hours a week. I find it very hard to believe this would screw with my academic performance in any way, and could cut cost of living in a place like sac to almost nil.

JasonR wrote:Can you do something to make costs more clear in your poll? Like put the actual total cost of attendance for each option? This incomplete mix of cost and scholly info doesn't help anyone tell you anything. Most of us here don't know what in-state tuition is at Irvine and Hastings and aren't going to go out of our way to look it up.


Approximate debt levels, exluding possible summer job income and/or part time bar work:
NYU (WL) 260, UVA (WL) 220, NU 250, Irvine 170, Hastings 150, Pacific 80.

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bk1
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Re: NU vs Irvine vs UPacific vs others

Postby bk1 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:01 pm

ryemanhattan wrote:Ok "straight A's" is totally presumptuous. But it isn't unreasonable to think that a potential student wouldn't finish higher in their class at a T2 than they would at a more elite school. I wouldn't be considering law school at all if I didn't think I had the chops. I know law school grades are somewhat unpredictable, but if you write well, can retain knowledge easily and remain calm under pressure, you should be fine. I'm confident I would outperform the majority of my classmates at Pacific.


Outperforming the majority of your classmates only gets you to above median. It is likely that you might finish a bit better (correlation between GPA/LSAT and law school grades is about 20%), but that doesn't mean you'll do better enough to make up for the dismal prospects of a crappy school.

UoP is just too shitty.
UCH/UCI are roughly equivalent but not cheap enough.
NU is insanely expensive.

I'd take NU but none of your options are appealing to someone who doesn't like debt.

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kapital98
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Re: NU vs Irvine vs UPacific vs others

Postby kapital98 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:02 pm

ryemanhattan wrote:Ok "straight A's" is totally presumptuous. But it isn't unreasonable to think that a potential student wouldn't finish higher in their class at a T2 than they would at a more elite school. I wouldn't be considering law school at all if I didn't think I had the chops. I know law school grades are somewhat unpredictable, but if you write well, can retain knowledge easily and remain calm under pressure, you should be fine. I'm confident I would outperform the majority of my classmates at Pacific.

Re: working during law school... I certainly wouldn't work in my first semester, and bartending two nights a week could only be about 10-15 hours a week. I find it very hard to believe this would screw with my academic performance in any way, and could cut cost of living in a place like sac to almost nil.


1) I hope you do well. If you didn't believe you could do well you probably shouldn't go to law school. I really hope you succeed.

2) You're LSAT+GPA scores are terrible predicters of success. In the same vein, where you are accepted is a terrible indicator future class rank. Your personal belief, no matter how strong, is not an indicator of success.

I know A LOT of really smart people (3.5+ GPA, 162+ LSAT) who bombed last semester (I go to Hastings.) They thought they were going to get A's. They got B's of all sorts. They are not stupid. They just did not do well compared to their peers.

3) You should have enough time to bartend. However, most schools expressly prohibit part-time work during 1L. I know Hastings does.

timbs4339
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Re: NU vs Irvine vs UPacific vs others

Postby timbs4339 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:11 pm


User avatar
Kikero
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Re: NU vs Irvine vs UPacific vs others

Postby Kikero » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:19 pm

timbs4339 wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimism_bias


Wikipedia wrote:Researchers have not coined the term pessimism bias, because the principles of the optimistic bias continue to be in effect in situations where individuals regard themselves as worse off than others. Optimism may occur from either a distortion of personal estimates, representing personal optimism, or a distortion for others, representing personal pessimism, making the term "pessimistic bias" obsolete.


So pessimism is actually a form of selfless optimism?




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