Do any non T 14 schools have good national reputations?

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El_Gallo
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Re: Do any non T 14 schools have good national reputations?

Postby El_Gallo » Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:22 pm

Top grads from Vandy, UT, UCLA, and USC are going to have options outside of their immediate markets.

BYU places half of its graduates outside of Utah. Albeit, most of those jobs are in in the West Coast, Rocky Mountain Range, or NY.

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skers
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Re: Do any non T 14 schools have good national reputations?

Postby skers » Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:28 pm

El_Gallo wrote:Top grads from Vandy, UT, UCLA, and USC are going to have options outside of their immediate markets.

BYU places half of its graduates outside of Utah. Albeit, most of those jobs are in in the West Coast, Rocky Mountain Range, or NY.


Yeah, BYU is generally really well regarded. The problem for is if non-LDS kids can stand dat honor code.

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TaipeiMort
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Re: Do any non T 14 schools have good national reputations?

Postby TaipeiMort » Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:29 pm

concurrent fork wrote:You can't use biglaw % data as a proxy for the "national" placement power of these schools. There are presumably more people at HYS self-selecting out of biglaw than at CCN. I think GULC placed more grads into biglaw than Yale last year, but no one would argue that...

And your Chicago trolling sounds particularly desperate today.


If by "self-selecting" out of big law you mean "not able to get, " then you'd be right. The numbers were ran in this thread based upon the most recent numbers the schools released : viewtopic.php?f=2&t=178139&start=25

It turned out that 64 people (11 percent) at Harvard, and 7 people (3 percent) at Chicago ended up unemployed (number of listed unemployed+ going on to non-joint graduate degrees, and state clerkships). The number would be higher for Harvard if it could be discerned how many business/industry jobs at Harvard weren't real (they aren't all Mckinsey and Goldman).

Also, anecdotes are probably worthless, but from the median I received callbacks to 8 markets where I had no ties, and 2 where they were marginal.

concurrent fork
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Re: Do any non T 14 schools have good national reputations?

Postby concurrent fork » Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:47 pm

TaipeiMort wrote:
concurrent fork wrote:You can't use biglaw % data as a proxy for the "national" placement power of these schools. There are presumably more people at HYS self-selecting out of biglaw than at CCN. I think GULC placed more grads into biglaw than Yale last year, but no one would argue that...

And your Chicago trolling sounds particularly desperate today.


If by "self-selecting" out of big law you mean "not able to get, " then you'd be right. The numbers were ran in this thread based upon the most recent numbers the schools released : viewtopic.php?f=2&t=178139&start=25

It turned out that 64 people (11 percent) at Harvard, and 7 people (3 percent) at Chicago ended up unemployed (number of listed unemployed+ going on to non-joint graduate degrees, and state clerkships). The number would be higher for Harvard if it could be discerned how many business/industry jobs at Harvard weren't real (they aren't all Mckinsey and Goldman).

Also, anecdotes are probably worthless, but from the median I received callbacks to 8 markets where I had no ties, and 2 where they were marginal.

So let me get this straight: you consider an HLS student with a state clerkship "unemployed", but in the other thread you are trolling simultaneously today (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=183595&start=25) you claim that every Chicago student with a state clerkship could have gotten an Art III clerkship "if they wanted one" and that it is a product of deliberate self-selection.

Your masturbatory trolling for Chicago isn't even logically consistent with itself.

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rayiner
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Re: Do any non T 14 schools have good national reputations?

Postby rayiner » Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:55 pm

TaipeiMort wrote:
concurrent fork wrote:You can't use biglaw % data as a proxy for the "national" placement power of these schools. There are presumably more people at HYS self-selecting out of biglaw than at CCN. I think GULC placed more grads into biglaw than Yale last year, but no one would argue that...

And your Chicago trolling sounds particularly desperate today.


If by "self-selecting" out of big law you mean "not able to get, " then you'd be right. The numbers were ran in this thread based upon the most recent numbers the schools released : viewtopic.php?f=2&t=178139&start=25

It turned out that 64 people (11 percent) at Harvard, and 7 people (3 percent) at Chicago ended up unemployed (number of listed unemployed+ going on to non-joint graduate degrees, and state clerkships). The number would be higher for Harvard if it could be discerned how many business/industry jobs at Harvard weren't real (they aren't all Mckinsey and Goldman).

Also, anecdotes are probably worthless, but from the median I received callbacks to 8 markets where I had no ties, and 2 where they were marginal.


It's definitely harder to place the whole of a big class in a down economy. That said, Harvard's 500+ firm placement didn't go down at all from 2008 to 2010. Chicago's went down from 60% to 52%.

Twit
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Re: Do any non T 14 schools have good national reputations?

Postby Twit » Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:27 pm

dingbat wrote:
bk1 wrote:Even T14's aren't really that national.

TITCR

But, to answer the question as intended: UCLA and Vandy.


Julio_El_Chavo wrote:A hiring partner at a V10 told me that there are really only two schools with truly "national" reach: Harvard and Yale. Take that for what it's worth.


I don't know about Yale, but even Harvard's pull is still regional. Yes, people recognize it everywhere, but take a look at the employment statistics: Harvard and Stanford both place largely in their backyards (30% of H in NYC and 40% of S in CA), 16% in DC, and about 15% in the other's backyard. See here for H and here for S.

There's no telling what kind of jobs these are, and H might apparently get TLSers to talk, but numbers-wise the two bat in the same tier. Period.

Twit
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Re: Do any non T 14 schools have good national reputations?

Postby Twit » Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:31 pm

Also:
buckilaw wrote:
SBL wrote:At this point you're basically asking what law schools will impress random people around the country even though it isn't actually very good, so I've gotta go with the old standby: ND


OP, if SBL has guessed what you motivation is, just save the $ and tell people that you went to law school at Princeton.

I love when small-talk leads to you going to law school and somebody inevitably knows someone whose daughter just got a FULL RIDE AT PRINCETON LAW, or worse: the full-tuition, merit-based scholarship at Harvard Law.

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dingbat
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Re: Do any non T 14 schools have good national reputations?

Postby dingbat » Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:32 pm

Did anyone mention Brigham Young?
That's one school with much greater national reach than its ranking would suggest.

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TaipeiMort
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Re: Do any non T 14 schools have good national reputations?

Postby TaipeiMort » Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:01 am

rayiner wrote:
TaipeiMort wrote:
concurrent fork wrote:You can't use biglaw % data as a proxy for the "national" placement power of these schools. There are presumably more people at HYS self-selecting out of biglaw than at CCN. I think GULC placed more grads into biglaw than Yale last year, but no one would argue that...

And your Chicago trolling sounds particularly desperate today.


If by "self-selecting" out of big law you mean "not able to get, " then you'd be right. The numbers were ran in this thread based upon the most recent numbers the schools released : viewtopic.php?f=2&t=178139&start=25

It turned out that 64 people (11 percent) at Harvard, and 7 people (3 percent) at Chicago ended up unemployed (number of listed unemployed+ going on to non-joint graduate degrees, and state clerkships). The number would be higher for Harvard if it could be discerned how many business/industry jobs at Harvard weren't real (they aren't all Mckinsey and Goldman).

Also, anecdotes are probably worthless, but from the median I received callbacks to 8 markets where I had no ties, and 2 where they were marginal.


It's definitely harder to place the whole of a big class in a down economy. That said, Harvard's 500+ firm placement didn't go down at all from 2008 to 2010. Chicago's went down from 60% to 52%.


Harvard's placement of their class is hugely impressive. I don't know if any other school (including Yale) could pull that. I would be trolling to suggest otherwise. It is clear that Chicago took a bigger big law placement hit. I think the real difference in overall placement is that Chicago's unlucky were a smaller group who were more easily found DC clerkships and PI work than Harvard's more sizeable group which had more classmates to compete with.

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20160810
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Re: Do any non T 14 schools have good national reputations?

Postby 20160810 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:45 am

Are you guys really arguing about whether NYU and Chicago have "good national reputations" as defined by god knows what? Who cares. They have good national reputations with lawyers who know what they're talking about and that's all that counts.

I hate these boner-waving preftige threads.

rad lulz
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Re: Do any non T 14 schools have good national reputations?

Postby rad lulz » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:45 am

SBL wrote:Are you guys really arguing about whether NYU and Chicago have "good national reputations" as defined by god knows what? Who cares. They have good national reputations with lawyers who know what they're talking about and that's all that counts.

I hate these boner-waving preftige threads.

What's the point of having a dick if you're not gonna slang?

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20160810
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Re: Do any non T 14 schools have good national reputations?

Postby 20160810 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:50 am

rad lulz wrote:
SBL wrote:Are you guys really arguing about whether NYU and Chicago have "good national reputations" as defined by god knows what? Who cares. They have good national reputations with lawyers who know what they're talking about and that's all that counts.

I hate these boner-waving preftige threads.

What's the point of having a dick if you're not gonna slang?

Sex, mainly. Also masturbation and peeing.

09042014
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Re: Do any non T 14 schools have good national reputations?

Postby 09042014 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:01 am

SBL wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
SBL wrote:Are you guys really arguing about whether NYU and Chicago have "good national reputations" as defined by god knows what? Who cares. They have good national reputations with lawyers who know what they're talking about and that's all that counts.

I hate these boner-waving preftige threads.

What's the point of having a dick if you're not gonna slang?

Sex, mainly. Also masturbation and peeing.


You can always tell SBL is a bro who enjoys life.

rad lulz
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Re: Do any non T 14 schools have good national reputations?

Postby rad lulz » Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:02 am

I like peeing.

09042014
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Re: Do any non T 14 schools have good national reputations?

Postby 09042014 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:09 am

rad lulz wrote:I like peeing.


Nothing is better than pissing after having to hold it. Well sex is, but almost nothing.

rad lulz
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Re: Do any non T 14 schools have good national reputations?

Postby rad lulz » Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:10 am

Desert Fox wrote:
rad lulz wrote:I like peeing.


Nothing is better than pissing after having to hold it. Well sex is, but almost nothing.

Hold your pee in longer bro.

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timeandspace11
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Re: Do any non T 14 schools have good national reputations?

Postby timeandspace11 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:16 am

Twit wrote:
dingbat wrote:
bk1 wrote:Even T14's aren't really that national.

TITCR

But, to answer the question as intended: UCLA and Vandy.


Julio_El_Chavo wrote:A hiring partner at a V10 told me that there are really only two schools with truly "national" reach: Harvard and Yale. Take that for what it's worth.


I don't know about Yale, but even Harvard's pull is still regional. Yes, people recognize it everywhere, but take a look at the employment statistics: Harvard and Stanford both place largely in their backyards (30% of H in NYC and 40% of S in CA), 16% in DC, and about 15% in the other's backyard. See here for H and here for S.

There's no telling what kind of jobs these are, and H might apparently get TLSers to talk, but numbers-wise the two bat in the same tier. Period.


That might just be that people prefer to work in the region rather than having difficulty outside of the region. I mean some of the largest markets are right in the vicinity; Boston and New York.

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AntipodeanPhil
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Re: Do any non T 14 schools have good national reputations?

Postby AntipodeanPhil » Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:39 pm

Twit wrote:I don't know about Yale, but even Harvard's pull is still regional. Yes, people recognize it everywhere, but take a look at the employment statistics: Harvard and Stanford both place largely in their backyards (30% of H in NYC and 40% of S in CA), 16% in DC, and about 15% in the other's backyard. See here for H and here for S.

There's no telling what kind of jobs these are, and H might apparently get TLSers to talk, but numbers-wise the two bat in the same tier. Period.

That's self-selection.

We've had this debate before. Harvard is the only university with a truly national reputation, since the general public all over the country (and world) think Harvard is best. Yale is close, but loses reputation a little on the West Coast.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/9109/harvard ... ublic.aspx

Twit
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Re: Do any non T 14 schools have good national reputations?

Postby Twit » Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:09 pm

AntipodeanPhil wrote:That's self-selection.

We've had this debate before. Harvard is the only university with a truly national reputation, since the general public all over the country (and world) think Harvard is best. Yale is close, but loses reputation a little on the West Coast.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/9109/harvard ... ublic.aspx


Harvard is without a doubt the top dog in terms of public perception, but are we talking national reputation in terms of legal job placement or public perception?

Also, that poll has Stanford tied with Yale. I still cannot buy this idea that Yale and Harvard are somehow national, but Stanford with the exact same placement and reputation numbers is not.

Edit: You're probably right that I can't say that Harvard is regional, but you can't look at the numbers and say that Y/H are the only national schools.




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