Do any non T 14 schools have good national reputations?

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timeandspace11
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Do any non T 14 schools have good national reputations?

Postby timeandspace11 » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:03 pm

We know kids from top 14 schools usually can get jobs all over the country, but what about 15-30 or even a bit higher?

I have heard from a few BU grads that they place pretty well nationally.

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bk1
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Re: Do any non T 14 schools have good national reputations?

Postby bk1 » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:08 pm

Even T14's aren't really that national.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: Do any non T 14 schools have good national reputations?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:14 pm

Define "good national reputation." Almost any law school can place a student anywhere if a student has ties to the place and one of the following:
1. Connections
2. Appropriate GPA/Rank/Law Review/Flagship Moot Court
3. The X factor (relevant work/internship experience, personality, and/or luck)

It really doesn't make sense, even at the T14 level (Non-hys), to go to a school outside of the region you would want to work in. People pretend that T14s are equal all over the US and that simply isn't true.

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buckilaw
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Re: Do any non T 14 schools have good national reputations?

Postby buckilaw » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:18 pm

Well, Vandy is well respected "nationwide" but it is much more respected in the Southeast than it is in the Southwest or Pacific Northwest.

crit_racer
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Re: Do any non T 14 schools have good national reputations?

Postby crit_racer » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:21 pm

Ones that ppl will have heard of?

Vandy, Emory, Notre Dame, BU/BC (I think), Tulane, basically any private school that has a good undergrad or med school or something

Also, I'd like to think UT and UCLA are well regarded in most parts of the country.

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20160810
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Re: Do any non T 14 schools have good national reputations?

Postby 20160810 » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:23 pm

At this point you're basically asking what law schools will impress random people around the country even though it isn't actually very good, so I've gotta go with the old standby: ND

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buckilaw
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Re: Do any non T 14 schools have good national reputations?

Postby buckilaw » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:26 pm

SBL wrote:At this point you're basically asking what law schools will impress random people around the country even though it isn't actually very good, so I've gotta go with the old standby: ND


OP, if SBL has guessed what you motivation is, just save the $ and tell people that you went to law school at Princeton.

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stillwater
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Re: Do any non T 14 schools have good national reputations?

Postby stillwater » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:43 pm

Cooley's multiple campuses allows it to corner regional markets across the country. Its reputation precedes it.

dooood
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Re: Do any non T 14 schools have good national reputations?

Postby dooood » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:48 pm

From an NYC-centric perspective: Vandy, Texas, UCLA and, to a lesser extent, USC, BU and BC and GW.

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dingbat
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Re: Do any non T 14 schools have good national reputations?

Postby dingbat » Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:12 pm

bk1 wrote:Even T14's aren't really that national.

TITCR

But, to answer the question as intended: UCLA and Vandy.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: Do any non T 14 schools have good national reputations?

Postby BarbellDreams » Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:17 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:Define "good national reputation." Almost any law school can place a student anywhere if a student has ties to the place and one of the following:
1. Connections
2. Appropriate GPA/Rank/Law Review/Flagship Moot Court
3. The X factor (relevant work/internship experience, personality, and/or luck)

It really doesn't make sense, even at the T14 level (Non-hys), to go to a school outside of the region you would want to work in. People pretend that T14s are equal all over the US and that simply isn't true.


Dear God, THIS!

Going to a lower ranked t14 with horrid grades, no work experience and a terrible personality won't help you get a job even with that shiny new JD. All schools have "some" chance to place in other regions, and the factors the above quote listed are dead on. A friend on mine got a job cause she sent out an app across the country to a mid-size firm that happened to have discussed hiring a clerk for the summer an hour before they got her email. In this market luck gets really underestimated.

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Re: Do any non T 14 schools have good national reputations?

Postby Julio_El_Chavo » Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:25 am

A hiring partner at a V10 told me that there are really only two schools with truly "national" reach: Harvard and Yale. Take that for what it's worth.

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Re: Do any non T 14 schools have good national reputations?

Postby 09042014 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:32 am

Julio_El_Chavo wrote:A hiring partner at a V10 told me that there are really only two schools with truly "national" reach: Harvard and Yale. Take that for what it's worth.


Which is total fucking bullshit because every V10 recruits at a geographically diverse collection of t14. 8/10 seemingly recruit at all of them. At NW, one of the arguably least national t14 had them all recruit actively, though only 8 came to OCI. C&B and WLRK did resume drops but actively called people back and both made at least one offer.

He probably means Y&H are tops in every market.

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TaipeiMort
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Re: Do any non T 14 schools have good national reputations?

Postby TaipeiMort » Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:34 am

Julio_El_Chavo wrote:A hiring partner at a V10 told me that there are really only two schools with truly "national" reach: Harvard and Yale. Take that for what it's worth.


Really? So Stanford, Columbia, and Chicago kids can't get jobs across the US?

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Re: Do any non T 14 schools have good national reputations?

Postby moonman157 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:47 am

TaipeiMort wrote:
Julio_El_Chavo wrote:A hiring partner at a V10 told me that there are really only two schools with truly "national" reach: Harvard and Yale. Take that for what it's worth.


Really? So Stanford, Columbia, and Chicago kids can't get jobs across the US?


This is obviously strawman. I think the idea is that while the degrees are certainly very portable, compared to most law degrees, Stanford will still feed heavily into/be most recognized in California, Columbia in NYC, and Chicago in Chicago. Yale and Harvard are on a whole different level.

This may just be my false impression, but I've generally gathered that most T14 degrees have portability in that they'll take you outside of where they are for employment and give you options for a legal market, but still feed heavily into certain ones. If you go to UNC, you're probably ending up in North Carolina. If you go to Duke, you can stay there, or go to DC or NYC or another major legal market if you can swing it, but your options still aren't endless. ITE, for most students, getting a job that requires after graduating law school is quite an accomplishment. But the T14 gives you access to multiple locations/types of law careers, given that you still do well grade-wise and can interview well.

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TaipeiMort
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Re: Do any non T 14 schools have good national reputations?

Postby TaipeiMort » Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:02 am

moonman157 wrote:
TaipeiMort wrote:
Julio_El_Chavo wrote:A hiring partner at a V10 told me that there are really only two schools with truly "national" reach: Harvard and Yale. Take that for what it's worth.


Really? So Stanford, Columbia, and Chicago kids can't get jobs across the US?


This is obviously strawman. I think the idea is that while the degrees are certainly very portable, compared to most law degrees, Stanford will still feed heavily into/be most recognized in California, Columbia in NYC, and Chicago in Chicago. Yale and Harvard are on a whole different level.

This may just be my false impression, but I've generally gathered that most T14 degrees have portability in that they'll take you outside of where they are for employment and give you options for a legal market, but still feed heavily into certain ones. If you go to UNC, you're probably ending up in North Carolina. If

you go to Duke, you can stay there, or go to DC or NYC or another major legal market if you can swing it, but your options still aren't endless. ITE, for most students, getting a job that requires after graduating law school is quite an accomplishment. But the T14 gives you access to multiple locations/types of law careers, given that you still do well grade-wise and can interview well.

All I know is that here at Chicago we've been placing a higher percentage of our class into big law than HLS, have the most per-capita partners nationwide, and only about 1/8 of the offices interviewing at our OCT were from Chicago. As for YLS, they are legendary and place people directly into amazing government and clerkship positions, but I don't think any available data suggests that they have a nationwide edge in placement. If anything, its schools like Harvard, Columbia, and Chicago with entrenched alumni at nearly every firm office that should offer some type of placement boost.

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SemperLegal
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Re: Do any non T 14 schools have good national reputations?

Postby SemperLegal » Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:50 am

Georgetown

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rayiner
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Re: Do any non T 14 schools have good national reputations?

Postby rayiner » Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:18 am

TaipeiMort wrote:
Julio_El_Chavo wrote:A hiring partner at a V10 told me that there are really only two schools with truly "national" reach: Harvard and Yale. Take that for what it's worth.


Really? So Stanford, Columbia, and Chicago kids can't get jobs across the US?


Harvard and Yale are the only schools people are actually impressed by in DC.

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IAFG
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Re: Do any non T 14 schools have good national reputations?

Postby IAFG » Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:27 am

TaipeiMort wrote:All I know is that here at Chicago we've been placing a higher percentage of our class into big law than HLS, have the most per-capita partners nationwide, and only about 1/8 of the offices interviewing at our OCT were from Chicago. As for YLS, they are legendary and place people directly into amazing government and clerkship positions, but I don't think any available data suggests that they have a nationwide edge in placement. If anything, its schools like Harvard, Columbia, and Chicago with entrenched alumni at nearly every firm office that should offer some type of placement boost.

I think you also know that HYS only ever had ~3/4 of the class wanting to do biglaw back when anyone could get it and that being a big firm partner isn't the end game for a ton of HYS (prestigious gov, academia, judgeships being far more compelling; firm partner is striver TTT shit for Yalies).

Here's the thing about "national placement." National placement means a Yale kid can waltz into San Francisco/Atlanta/Dallas/Chicago and say, "I'm not from here, never really worked here before, but I want to do the work y'all are doing out here" and get an offer anyway. CCN DOES NOT give you that.

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Re: Do any non T 14 schools have good national reputations?

Postby 071816 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:28 am

rayiner wrote:
TaipeiMort wrote:
Julio_El_Chavo wrote:A hiring partner at a V10 told me that there are really only two schools with truly "national" reach: Harvard and Yale. Take that for what it's worth.


Really? So Stanford, Columbia, and Chicago kids can't get jobs across the US?


Harvard and Yale are the only schools people are actually impressed by in DC.

Define "people" and "impressed."

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IAFG
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Re: Do any non T 14 schools have good national reputations?

Postby IAFG » Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:35 am

On the subject of large law firm partnerships, graduates from Loyola University Chicago School of Law are six times more likely to make partner than University of Chicago grads. Of course, the article suggests people from good schools find better things to do with their time, but by all means, keep casting your lot in with TTT strivers, Taipei.

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rayiner
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Re: Do any non T 14 schools have good national reputations?

Postby rayiner » Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:49 am

chimp wrote:
rayiner wrote:
TaipeiMort wrote:
Julio_El_Chavo wrote:A hiring partner at a V10 told me that there are really only two schools with truly "national" reach: Harvard and Yale. Take that for what it's worth.


Really? So Stanford, Columbia, and Chicago kids can't get jobs across the US?


Harvard and Yale are the only schools people are actually impressed by in DC.

Define "people" and "impressed."


People = Law firm partners at snooty firms like Wilmer.
Impressed = Where they went to law school.

concurrent fork
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Re: Do any non T 14 schools have good national reputations?

Postby concurrent fork » Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:46 am

TaipeiMort wrote:
moonman157 wrote:
TaipeiMort wrote:
Julio_El_Chavo wrote:A hiring partner at a V10 told me that there are really only two schools with truly "national" reach: Harvard and Yale. Take that for what it's worth.


Really? So Stanford, Columbia, and Chicago kids can't get jobs across the US?


This is obviously strawman. I think the idea is that while the degrees are certainly very portable, compared to most law degrees, Stanford will still feed heavily into/be most recognized in California, Columbia in NYC, and Chicago in Chicago. Yale and Harvard are on a whole different level.

This may just be my false impression, but I've generally gathered that most T14 degrees have portability in that they'll take you outside of where they are for employment and give you options for a legal market, but still feed heavily into certain ones. If you go to UNC, you're probably ending up in North Carolina. If

you go to Duke, you can stay there, or go to DC or NYC or another major legal market if you can swing it, but your options still aren't endless. ITE, for most students, getting a job that requires after graduating law school is quite an accomplishment. But the T14 gives you access to multiple locations/types of law careers, given that you still do well grade-wise and can interview well.

All I know is that here at Chicago we've been placing a higher percentage of our class into big law than HLS, have the most per-capita partners nationwide, and only about 1/8 of the offices interviewing at our OCT were from Chicago. As for YLS, they are legendary and place people directly into amazing government and clerkship positions, but I don't think any available data suggests that they have a nationwide edge in placement. If anything, its schools like Harvard, Columbia, and Chicago with entrenched alumni at nearly every firm office that should offer some type of placement boost.

You can't use biglaw % data as a proxy for the "national" placement power of these schools. There are presumably more people at HYS self-selecting out of biglaw than at CCN. I think GULC placed more grads into biglaw than Yale last year, but no one would argue that it is a more "national" school because of this.

And your Chicago trolling sounds particularly desperate today.

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Julio_El_Chavo
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Re: Do any non T 14 schools have good national reputations?

Postby Julio_El_Chavo » Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:51 am

Desert Fox wrote:
Julio_El_Chavo wrote:A hiring partner at a V10 told me that there are really only two schools with truly "national" reach: Harvard and Yale. Take that for what it's worth.


Which is total fucking bullshit because every V10 recruits at a geographically diverse collection of t14. 8/10 seemingly recruit at all of them. At NW, one of the arguably least national t14 had them all recruit actively, though only 8 came to OCI. C&B and WLRK did resume drops but actively called people back and both made at least one offer.

He probably means Y&H are tops in every market.


I'm just telling you what he said. I don't necessarily agree with it. FWIW, he went to one of CCN.

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kennethellenparcell
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Re: Do any non T 14 schools have good national reputations?

Postby kennethellenparcell » Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:00 pm

Julio_El_Chavo wrote:A hiring partner at a V10 told me that there are really only two schools with truly "national" reach: Harvard and Yale. Take that for what it's worth.


An attorney on the hiring committee at my firm echoed this sentiment, kinda. She said that when she looks at a resume, she is really only truly impressed by two schools: Harvard and Yale. Otherwise, she will just check to see if the person went to a good law school (other t14s) or not. But either way, it's mostly about your accomplishments.




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