last minute insight?? Chi v. Penn ($) v. Duke ($$) Forum

[swoozie]

Read this then take the Duke money unless Penn will make up some more of the difference.

read that whole thread last night. made me feel
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already called + e-mailed Penn, otherwise have to mail Duke letter by 6pm for overnight. Man, i can't believe how down to the wire I am. Would have helped (maybe not) if Penn aid/Chi acceptance came earlier than Wed/Fri of last week.

[Geneva]

go with ur gut. i know that sounds so cliche, but at this point that seems to be the best course of action. good luck!

[concurrent fork]

Duke is nice. I would go there if you wanted NYC Big law or Southern Midlaw. Otherwise, Chicago will allow you to get where you want to go. Duke will likely get you to NYC, and if you are a cognitive dissonance type, you can always just convince yourself you always wanted NYC. Duke is worth the gamble if you are willing to accept NYC.

Don't believe that it is easier to get A3 clerk ships from Duke. Chicago has fewer people gunning for them, and you will be able to get at least Dist Court with effort. That's right, I'm suggesting that anyone wanting an A3 clerkship from Chicago gets one. If you want a good DC/AC, you will get one with top 30% grades or above median if you want to go firm first.

That's complete fabrication. If that's true, why do 11% of people doing clerkships at U Chi do state clerkships?

Also, U Chicago students want to clerk like fuck. Chicago is a major destination for clerkship aspirants.

Because if you want a dc from Chicago and have crap grades, you'll have to mail and network your way to some pretty unexciting places, like Montana, Chattanooga, and Maine. People don't want to do this to themselves who don't have big law/ want to practice in a region for a reason. For example, if you are PDing. Or Dating in a particular location, a DC in Denver won't help you, but the craziness that is state court will.

You are just straight up spreading misinformation.

[Tiago Splitter]

Chicago>>Penn>>>Duke. Plus, if you don't want NYC biglaw you can always work in Chicago...or really any other metro area. Chicago is a top 5 school...I doubt anyone will turn you down BECAUSE you went to Chicago. That's stupid

I agree completely, I guess I'm just trying to figure out if the increased benefit is worth a 90k difference (that's with interest) over Duke as bk187 said. I'm trying not to count it too much but it's also hard to ignore the supposed benefit IP gives you as far as finding a job (might change my mind, market might change, blah blah blah), given what I've read on here and talking to students and wondering how much difference the school name can make for me.

Read this then take the Duke money unless Penn will make up some more of the difference.

Remember that the OP would only be 80K in debt out of Chicago. Not really forced into anything at that price.

[Nelson]

Remember that the OP would only be 80K in debt out of Chicago. Not really forced into anything at that price.

I missed that somewhere. In that case, Chicago is probably a decent choice for more flexibility.

EDIT: Though if that means Penn for basically nothing, I'd give strong consideration there if OP would prefer Philadelphia to Chicago given his ties.

[dixiecupdrinking]

Honestly I'd take UChicago here. If you don't want NYC then it opens a plausible market in Chicago (struggling though it may be) and is stronger nationally. Not sure where Duke places well other than NYC or a market where you have ties. I suppose Charlotte and Atlanta.

80-90k is a good bet at Chicago and worth the job prospects IMO.

Take everything TaipeiMort says about Chicago with a huge rock of salt, however.

[Samara]

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Can't stop watching. Hilariously appropriate.

[swoozie]

Thank you to everyone for your thoughts.

It looks like Penn has become sort of the lukewarm option at this point, and I will decide depending on little to no debt at a lower ranked school or 80-90k debt at a more prestigious school. I also have to emphasize this is debt, not price, I'm still paying sticker for Chicago...(still worried that I didn't get to visit, though I think I could be at least content anywhere).

I think if by some miracle Penn does make the gap smaller between Duke and puts a bit more difference between Chicago, it will end up being my top choice. I'm afraid of being on either end.

[msblaw89]

Thank you to everyone for your thoughts.

It looks like Penn has become sort of the lukewarm option at this point, and I will decide depending on little to no debt at a lower ranked school or 80-90k debt at a more prestigious school. I also have to emphasize this is debt, not price, I'm still paying sticker for Chicago...(still worried that I didn't get to visit, though I think I could be at least content anywhere).

I think if by some miracle Penn does make the gap smaller between Duke and puts a bit more difference between Chicago, it will end up being my top choice. I'm afraid of being on either end.

I understand your concern, and if Penn gives you more $$$ that's great! But I really don't think you should be worried coming out of Chicago... you will be able to pay back the debt...and a law degree from Chicago is coveted

[swoozie]

Thank you, I definitely understand where you are coming from. I was able to get some advice from a partner at a firm where I'm from, and he didn't think the money was worth taking over Penn or Chicago. Said if it was him (or his daughter), he'd rank Penn > Chicago >>> Duke for market-paying IP prospects on the east coast. But also said all were good options and he wouldn't feel bad whichever way I went. Kinda leaning away from Duke now.

I'm going to feel so sick to my stomach when I write that withdrawal e-mail.

[lawyerwannabe]

I think it would be silly to not take Duke with the amount of money they are offering. You talked to one partner. Most people that I talk to on the east coast would maybe put Penn slightly ahead of Duke and Chicago. Many people not in tune with the law school rankings do not necessarily think Chicago is that good and some mistake UPenn for Penn State.

Note: and all three have pretty similar AIII clerkship placement with Chicago giving you a slight leg up in some of the more competitive markets.

[msblaw89]

I think it would be silly to not take Duke with the amount of money they are offering. You talked to one partner. Most people that I talk to on the east coast would maybe put Penn slightly ahead of Duke and Chicago. Many people not in tune with the law school rankings do not necessarily think Chicago is that good and some mistake UPenn for Penn State.

Note: and all three have pretty similar AIII clerkship placement with Chicago giving you a slight leg up in some of the more competitive markets.

Anyone in the legal world will know Chicago and Penn

[msblaw89]

I think it would be silly to not take Duke with the amount of money they are offering. You talked to one partner. Most people that I talk to on the east coast would maybe put Penn slightly ahead of Duke and Chicago. Many people not in tune with the law school rankings do not necessarily think Chicago is that good and some mistake UPenn for Penn State.

Note: and all three have pretty similar AIII clerkship placement with Chicago giving you a slight leg up in some of the more competitive markets.

Anyone in the legal world will know Chicago and Penn

Or they should know

[lawyerwannabe]

Read my post a little bit closer. I pretty much say that most (if not all) will know of them but do not necessarily think that they are any better than Duke (and many may think Duke is better).

Also, this law firms ranking schools could demonstrate this to a point (I know that it is probably not representative but it does say something I suppose). It has Duke tied with Chicago and Penn below them both.

[swoozie]

I think it would be silly to not take Duke with the amount of money they are offering.

I know. But my gut is telling me to go with Penn/Chi right now. Or rather, I can't make the commitment to Duke at this point (1.5 hrs to mail deposit) and withdraw all my other acceptances, so it has to be Duke that goes. I'm unbelievably sad right now.

[09042014]

Chicago>>Penn>>>Duke. Plus, if you don't want NYC biglaw you can always work in Chicago...or really any other metro area. Chicago is a top 5 school...I doubt anyone will turn you down BECAUSE you went to Chicago. That's stupid

I agree completely, I guess I'm just trying to figure out if the increased benefit is worth a 90k difference (that's with interest) over Duke as bk187 said. I'm trying not to count it too much but it's also hard to ignore the supposed benefit IP gives you as far as finding a job (might change my mind, market might change, blah blah blah), given what I've read on here and talking to students and wondering how much difference the school name can make for me.

Read this then take the Duke money unless Penn will make up some more of the difference.

Especially if OP might do IP. The firms that really value U of C over Duke are mega NYC firms. The kind that do little, if any, IP. For most of the country it's really HYS> T14.

Chicago isn't work 72K more than Duke. I think wanting IP makes it definitely not worth it.

With IP + 2 w/e + and UG GPA that got you into Uchicago you are almost definitely going to get big law. Even if U of C is better than Duke, we are talking about paying 72K* to go to a slightly better firm. Not worth it bro.

*(plus 8% interest on that shit for several years + cost of living delta = it's probably more like 100K over your loan amount).

[hanman]

I think it would be silly to not take Duke with the amount of money they are offering.

I know. But my gut is telling me to go with Penn/Chi right now. Or rather, I can't make the commitment to Duke at this point (1.5 hrs to mail deposit) and withdraw all my other acceptances, so it has to be Duke that goes. I'm unbelievably sad right now.

i know how you feel...i had to withdraw from a school that i would have loved to attend in order to sign the duke form and submit my deposit by the fed ex deadline today...i went with my gut but i'm really sad about the choice as well.

[Dany]

Go to Duke. UChicago > Penn for the $30k difference, but UChicago is not better than being debt free from Duke.

Edit - I'm unclear as to why it has to be Duke that goes?

[wiseowl]

I hope you weren't misled in your decision by either TaipeiMort or the partner, both of whom were spouting complete nonsense.

That's a lot of cash to leave on the table.

[swoozie]

Go to Duke. UChicago > Penn for the $30k difference, but UChicago is not better than being debt free from Duke.

Edit - I'm unclear as to why it has to be Duke that goes?

It had to be Duke that went because I couldn't commit at the time of the deposit deadline. (and I asked about extending the deadline but nope).

@wiseowl
I can't lie and say that there was no effect (well, actually, people seemed to focus in really quickly on clerking, which was only ever a minor thing for me, so all the posts on clerking I sort of skimmed), but it wasn't huge because I guess I was already leaning in that direction. My last poll went strongly in Chi/Penn's favor, and I think it was how I wrote the OP.

This might go down as the worst decision in some people's eyes based on the poll, but I think I'm actually going with Penn. Factors I didn't elaborate that ultimately swayed me:
- Duke (and Michigan) felt like my undergrad. I wanted to live in a city and was kind of dreading the more suburban setting...that's literally been my whole life.
- I liked the campus/building/area around Penn more. I thought Duke undergrad was great but was less impressed with the school itself.
- Proximity to family/friends meant my family lives about 45 min away and my best friends are in Center City (I'll let you guess which school they were pulling for).

I always had a bias for Chicago because it was one of my final choices for undergrad as well. I visited and I really liked it...but I didn't go because I had essentially a free ride at the school I went to (and I think Chicago didn't even have the major I wanted), and there was no way in hell I could justify the 30k or 40k per year for Chicago for undergrad. But with the aid issue between penn/chicago, I feel like Chi might be too much of a gamble since I didn't get to visit and really just feel like I don't know enough about the school. When I got waitlisted I wasn't expecting to hear back until after the other deposit deadlines so I kind of just forgot about Chicago and took it as a reject. Then once the initial excitement over being accepted wore off, I started thinking of a bunch of other factors that weren't solely school-related.

I KNOW it was a lot of money to turn down Duke, and it was probably one of the hardest decisions in my life, I even cried after telling my mom (don't judge me ok ). But I feel a lot better today.

[Dany]

You're going to Penn, a fantastic school that you love, for only $50k debt. None of your choices were bad choices. Be happy with your decision.

[dixiecupdrinking]

You're going to Penn, a fantastic school that you love, for only $50k debt. None of your choices were bad choices. Be happy with your decision.

Yup. Good decision, no need to justify it to anyone here or anywhere else. Congrats and good luck.