Cardozo full ride vs. Fordham sticker

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cogitoergosum
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Cardozo full ride vs. Fordham sticker

Postby cogitoergosum » Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:06 pm

I was one of the group that got the Cardozo full-ride offer today. Either way, COL is covered. Worth re-thinking 'dozo with the full ride?

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dingbat
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Re: Cardozo full ride vs. Fordham sticker

Postby dingbat » Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:12 pm

cogitoergosum wrote:I was one of the group that got the Cardozo full-ride offer today. Either way, COL is covered. Worth re-thinking 'dozo with the full ride?

Fordham is objectively a better school, but it's not worth $150k more than Dozo

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JCFindley
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Re: Cardozo full ride vs. Fordham sticker

Postby JCFindley » Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:42 pm

dingbat wrote:
cogitoergosum wrote:I was one of the group that got the Cardozo full-ride offer today. Either way, COL is covered. Worth re-thinking 'dozo with the full ride?

Fordham is objectively a better school, but it's not worth $150k more than Dozo


Yupp, this is my thought as well.....

TMC116
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Re: Cardozo full ride vs. Fordham sticker

Postby TMC116 » Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:45 am

JCFindley wrote:
dingbat wrote:
cogitoergosum wrote:I was one of the group that got the Cardozo full-ride offer today. Either way, COL is covered. Worth re-thinking 'dozo with the full ride?

Fordham is objectively a better school, but it's not worth $150k more than Dozo


Yupp, this is my thought as well.....


+1

Sticker at Fordham is crushing. Just kill it at Dozo

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cogitoergosum
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Re: Cardozo full ride vs. Fordham sticker

Postby cogitoergosum » Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:48 am

Thanks for the responses. Never thought TLS would be advising me to choose a t2 over a t1! :)

One more question - if Fordham ponied up a little merit aid, how much would you think necessary to make it worth the extra debt? 15k/yr?

TMC116
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Re: Cardozo full ride vs. Fordham sticker

Postby TMC116 » Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:39 pm

cogitoergosum wrote:Thanks for the responses. Never thought TLS would be advising me to choose a t2 over a t1! :)

One more question - if Fordham ponied up a little merit aid, how much would you think necessary to make it worth the extra debt? 15k/yr?


At least 15. Probably closer to 20 or 25.

What are the stipulations on the Cardozo scholly?

woeisme
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Re: Cardozo full ride vs. Fordham sticker

Postby woeisme » Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:42 pm

cogitoergosum wrote:I was one of the group that got the Cardozo full-ride offer today. Either way, COL is covered. Worth re-thinking 'dozo with the full ride?


No way to leverage with Fordham? If not, might as well take the full-ride. I mean both are NYC regional schools at the end of the day.

OnceUponAMemo
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Re: Cardozo full ride vs. Fordham sticker

Postby OnceUponAMemo » Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:54 pm

I don't think this is such an easy call. I took 10k at Fordham over the no stip Dozo ride and have not looked back. It depends on what you want to do, if you want PI, then go with Dozo all the way. If you literally want to do anything else, you are seriously shortchanging yourself by forgoing the much stronger school. The money is huge, but not having to scrounge/hustle/beg for three years to find any legal job, that's worth a lot too. Over the course of your career, the money may not be a huge factor if you have early jobs that put you on a good track. Either way, great options to have, congrats!

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Re: Cardozo full ride vs. Fordham sticker

Postby timbs4339 » Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:56 pm

cogitoergosum wrote:I was one of the group that got the Cardozo full-ride offer today. Either way, COL is covered. Worth re-thinking 'dozo with the full ride?


What do you want to do?

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dingbat
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Re: Cardozo full ride vs. Fordham sticker

Postby dingbat » Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:01 pm

cogitoergosum wrote:Thanks for the responses. Never thought TLS would be advising me to choose a t2 over a t1! :)

One more question - if Fordham ponied up a little merit aid, how much would you think necessary to make it worth the extra debt? 15k/yr?

Only you can decide. I'd say $15k is probably a fair point, $10k if you're gunning for midlaw

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JCFindley
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Re: Cardozo full ride vs. Fordham sticker

Postby JCFindley » Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:35 pm

Yupp, really a personal choice. For me, I will not go to a school that my GI Bill will not cover 100% That means I would choose Fordham over NYU or CLS if I had those three options. It also means I would choose St Johns over Brooklyn etc etc.....

BUT, I am old and don't have 40 years to pay off any debt that I incur going to LS. Both Cardozo and Fordham have generous programs for vets so my choice between those two would be clear, but in my situation I will only go with the equivalent of a full ride....

YMMV of course.....

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romothesavior
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Re: Cardozo full ride vs. Fordham sticker

Postby romothesavior » Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:27 pm

This is Cardozo easy. No, it isn't a great school, but Fordham is not worth that kind of dough when you can get a free law degree from Cardozo. It's not like we're talking Columbia v. Dozo or something.

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Re: Cardozo full ride vs. Fordham sticker

Postby JamesChapman23 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:17 pm

OnceUponAMemo wrote:I don't think this is such an easy call. I took 10k at Fordham over the no stip Dozo ride and have not looked back. It depends on what you want to do, if you want PI, then go with Dozo all the way. If you literally want to do anything else, you are seriously shortchanging yourself by forgoing the much stronger school. The money is huge, but not having to scrounge/hustle/beg for three years to find any legal job, that's worth a lot too. Over the course of your career, the money may not be a huge factor if you have early jobs that put you on a good track. Either way, great options to have, congrats!


Is he going to shortchanging himself by not going in 220k+ worth of nondischarable, 6.8/8.5 non-sub student loans?

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Re: Cardozo full ride vs. Fordham sticker

Postby Paul Campos » Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:22 pm

romothesavior wrote:This is Cardozo easy. No, it isn't a great school, but Fordham is not worth that kind of dough when you can get a free law degree from Cardozo. It's not like we're talking Columbia v. Dozo or something.



Yes. Fordham hired 15% of its class in 2010 into short-term "fellowships." That's not a whole lot lower than the percentage of the class that got big law. That's a horrible way to gamble 150K when you have the option of getting into the game for "free" (three years of opportunity cost).

OnceUponAMemo
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Re: Cardozo full ride vs. Fordham sticker

Postby OnceUponAMemo » Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:33 pm

I'm not saying it's a simple choice, but running away from debt just to run away from debt doesn't make sense either. If the schools were even comparable in the NYC market, then it would be very hard to turn down the money, I was just balancing the very pro Dozo appeals earlier.

Also, to the above poster, the game analogy fails. Dozo and Fordham students are not playing the same game and they certainly have vastly different rules if you want to have a much broader definition of game than your analogy implies.

ahnhub
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Re: Cardozo full ride vs. Fordham sticker

Postby ahnhub » Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:40 pm

I'm sure people have mentioned this to you already but-- 173/3.2 should give you much better options, unless you're absolutely intent on staying in NY.

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cogitoergosum
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Re: Cardozo full ride vs. Fordham sticker

Postby cogitoergosum » Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:41 pm

OnceUponAMemo wrote:the game analogy fails. Dozo and Fordham students are not playing the same game and they certainly have vastly different rules if you want to have a much broader definition of game than your analogy implies.

This is starting to sound vaguely Wittgensteininan...

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Re: Cardozo full ride vs. Fordham sticker

Postby cogitoergosum » Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:43 pm

ahnhub wrote:I'm sure people have mentioned this to you already but-- 173/3.2 should give you much better options, unless you're absolutely intent on staying in NY.

Yeah, still hoping for better, riding a billion waitlists. At this point, I have to figure out my best worst-case scenario, ya know?

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Re: Cardozo full ride vs. Fordham sticker

Postby Paul Campos » Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:48 pm

cogitoergosum wrote:
ahnhub wrote:I'm sure people have mentioned this to you already but-- 173/3.2 should give you much better options, unless you're absolutely intent on staying in NY.

Yeah, still hoping for better, riding a billion waitlists. At this point, I have to figure out my best worst-case scenario, ya know?



Think of it this way -- no guarantees but with a 173 you'll probably have the highest LSAT in your whole year. That should give you a far better than random chance of getting top 10% and top 10% will get you a big firm job (Probably. I'm also ignoring your undergrad GPA). Lots of ifs in there but Fordham is a classic trap school right now.

ahnhub
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Re: Cardozo full ride vs. Fordham sticker

Postby ahnhub » Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:55 pm

I think you need to research this but I'm not sure ITE that Cardozo gives a realistic chance at Biglaw (as in, you probably need to be in top 10% to even be competitive). This is based completely on anonymous information posted on employment threads, so it's something you need to look into for yourself. I would vote for Cardozo if Biglaw is not your goal.

I would think good use of ED would get you into a much stronger school, if you were willing to wait a cycle (although with the way this cycle is playing out, you may very well get off some wait lists). If I didn't get off a wait list that's what I would do.

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Re: Cardozo full ride vs. Fordham sticker

Postby Wily » Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:08 pm

Paul Campos wrote:
cogitoergosum wrote:
ahnhub wrote:I'm sure people have mentioned this to you already but-- 173/3.2 should give you much better options, unless you're absolutely intent on staying in NY.

Yeah, still hoping for better, riding a billion waitlists. At this point, I have to figure out my best worst-case scenario, ya know?



Think of it this way -- no guarantees but with a 173 you'll probably have the highest LSAT in your whole year. That should give you a far better than random chance of getting top 10% and top 10% will get you a big firm job (Probably. I'm also ignoring your undergrad GPA). Lots of ifs in there but Fordham is a classic trap school right now.


Professor Campos, I respect your opinion a lot, and I'm in a similar situation as this poster. I'm weighing GW (with presumably no money) vs Cardozo with $30,000 a year. Would you say GW is also a trap school, and that I should go to Cardozo instead?

Paul Campos
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Re: Cardozo full ride vs. Fordham sticker

Postby Paul Campos » Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:31 pm

Wily wrote:
Paul Campos wrote:
cogitoergosum wrote:
ahnhub wrote:I'm sure people have mentioned this to you already but-- 173/3.2 should give you much better options, unless you're absolutely intent on staying in NY.

Yeah, still hoping for better, riding a billion waitlists. At this point, I have to figure out my best worst-case scenario, ya know?



Think of it this way -- no guarantees but with a 173 you'll probably have the highest LSAT in your whole year. That should give you a far better than random chance of getting top 10% and top 10% will get you a big firm job (Probably. I'm also ignoring your undergrad GPA). Lots of ifs in there but Fordham is a classic trap school right now.


Professor Campos, I respect your opinion a lot, and I'm in a similar situation as this poster. I'm weighing GW (with presumably no money) vs Cardozo with $30,000 a year. Would you say GW is also a trap school, and that I should go to Cardozo instead?


Has Cardozo posted its tuition/fees for next year? They were $48.3K this past year so a 30K scholarship is probably going to leave you at least $60K down in terms of tuition alone, plus of course the COL in NYC beyond that is estimated by the school as $25K (which is conservative) so you're up to $135K, as opposed to a full ride where you would be looking at $75K. As for GW it's COA right now is $225K and something like 82 people out of 500 got big law in the class of 2011. Personally I don't think either of these are good choices right now at these prices.




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