Wanting to pracitce Criminal Defense in Mobile, AL...

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jcm043
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Wanting to pracitce Criminal Defense in Mobile, AL...

Postby jcm043 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:05 pm

I want to practice Criminal Defense in Mobile, Alabama or in Baldwin County on the Eastern shore of Mobile Bay. Which law school, regionally would give me the best education for wanting to practice crim defense?

How much experience or a plus is a law school with a Crim Defense Clinic?

I realize next to zero firms want to hire a crim defense attorney, most are solo. My starting point would be going solo and joining the indigent defenders board.

Here are my choices:

Alabama
Ole Miss
Loyola (New Orleans)
Jones
Cumberland
Miss. College

Bama & Loyola nola both have crim defense clinics.

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flem
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Re: Wanting to pracitce Criminal Defense in Mobile, AL...

Postby flem » Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:06 pm

Alabama is literally the only choice here that makes sense. Ignore specialty programs. Good luck sir!

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jcm043
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Re: Wanting to pracitce Criminal Defense in Mobile, AL...

Postby jcm043 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:09 pm

flem wrote:Alabama is literally the only choice here that makes sense. Ignore specialty programs. Good luck sir!


Even if I am destine to be going solo after graduation? I feel you are just saying this due to Bama's ranking. Bama will be just as expensive for the first year as the others.


additional question.... Do firms hire associates to handle Criminal Defense work?

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flem
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Re: Wanting to pracitce Criminal Defense in Mobile, AL...

Postby flem » Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:19 pm

I'm saying Alabama because Alabama is a state of good ol' boys and going to the flagship state school is going to be the best way to get work.

Also these other options are terrible.
Last edited by flem on Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

timbs4339
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Re: Wanting to pracitce Criminal Defense in Mobile, AL...

Postby timbs4339 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:19 pm

jcm043 wrote:
flem wrote:Alabama is literally the only choice here that makes sense. Ignore specialty programs. Good luck sir!


Even if I am destine to be going solo after graduation? I feel you are just saying this due to Bama's ranking. Bama will be just as expensive for the first year as the others.


additional question.... Do firms hire associates to handle Criminal Defense work?


Bama will give you the best opportunity to get into the firms that actually do this work as long as you are willing to work part-time during the year. Try to work for a small firm for $12/hr or volunteer for the local government or public defender as an intern. Get as much experience as possible and figure out how attorneys actually get clients. Start to build a network of established practitioners to refer you work, the Bama name will help you meet alumni in that area. Work in Mobile/target market during the summers. Bama will probably have adjuncts teaching classes in their area of law- take their classes and network with them. You need to take law school seriously, but not necessarily in the way that most of your classmates do. Grades are important but contacts and hands-on experience will be much more important.

Generally, firms that do this work do not hire out of law school. Big firms that generally hire out of law school do not have criminal defense departments unless you are talking white collar defense. So, you will try to find a job with a much smaller firm that will probably be very low paying to start until you can figure out the market. The toughest things starting out solo will be 1) competing with other firms to get clients or getting enough experience to get on the appointment lists (some states require you to have significant experience and attorney references before they will let you represent indigent clients), 2) funding yourself until you can get a steady stream of income.

What is the total COA at each school?
Last edited by timbs4339 on Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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romothesavior
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Re: Wanting to pracitce Criminal Defense in Mobile, AL...

Postby romothesavior » Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:36 pm

flem wrote:Alabama is literally the only choice here that makes sense. Ignore specialty programs. Good luck sir!

This is TCR. Alabama is the only option that makes any sense at all here.

Be sure to do a lot of the things timbs recommended (intern during the year, network, etc.) Good luck.

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RedBirds2011
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Re: Wanting to pracitce Criminal Defense in Mobile, AL...

Postby RedBirds2011 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:42 pm

flem wrote:I'm saying Alabama because Alabama is a state of good ol' boys and going to the flagship state school is going to be the best way to get work.

Also these other options are terrible.


As someone familiar with Louisiana, loyola new Orleans is not a bad school for a decent price. it's pretty respected in new Orleans and most Tulane people leave. And a lot there do not have a lot of debt. But if OP wants Alabama, it doesn't make sense to go there. OP if you want to go solo right out you need to think about debt. I think Bama also being the state flag and good ole boys in Bama is probably credited.

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angrybird
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Re: Wanting to pracitce Criminal Defense in Mobile, AL...

Postby angrybird » Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:42 pm

you know they're all guilty, right?

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RedBirds2011
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Re: Wanting to pracitce Criminal Defense in Mobile, AL...

Postby RedBirds2011 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:44 pm

angrybird wrote:you know they're all guilty, right?


Therefore they don't deserve the right to legal representation lol end sarcasm

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RedBirds2011
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Re: Wanting to pracitce Criminal Defense in Mobile, AL...

Postby RedBirds2011 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:55 pm

timbs4339 wrote:
jcm043 wrote:
flem wrote:Alabama is literally the only choice here that makes sense. Ignore specialty programs. Good luck sir!


Even if I am destine to be going solo after graduation? I feel you are just saying this due to Bama's ranking. Bama will be just as expensive for the first year as the others.


additional question.... Do firms hire associates to handle Criminal Defense work?


Bama will give you the best opportunity to get into the firms that actually do this work as long as you are willing to work part-time during the year. Try to work for a small firm for $12/hr or volunteer for the local government or public defender as an intern. Get as much experience as possible and figure out how attorneys actually get clients. Start to build a network of established practitioners to refer you work, the Bama name will help you meet alumni in that area. Work in Mobile/target market during the summers. Bama will probably have adjuncts teaching classes in their area of law- take their classes and network with them. You need to take law school seriously, but not necessarily in the way that most of your classmates do. Grades are important but contacts and hands-on experience will be much more important.

Generally, firms that do this work do not hire out of law school. Big firms that generally hire out of law school do not have criminal defense departments unless you are talking white collar defense. So, you will try to find a job with a much smaller firm that will probably be very low paying to start until you can figure out the market. The toughest things starting out solo will be 1) competing with other firms to get clients or getting enough experience to get on the appointment lists (some states require you to have significant experience and attorney references before they will let you represent indigent clients), 2) funding yourself until you can get a steady stream of income.

What is the total COA at each school?


Just saw this post. Yes OP basically this post.

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flem
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Re: Wanting to pracitce Criminal Defense in Mobile, AL...

Postby flem » Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:14 pm

RedBirds2011 wrote:
As someone familiar with Louisiana, loyola new Orleans is not a bad school for a decent price. it's pretty respected in new Orleans and most Tulane people leave. And a lot there do not have a lot of debt. But if OP wants Alabama, it doesn't make sense to go there. OP if you want to go solo right out you need to think about debt. I think Bama also being the state flag and good ole boys in Bama is probably credited.


That's precisely why it's a terrible option bruh. If he wanted to stay in NO it'd be fine.

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RedBirds2011
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Re: Wanting to pracitce Criminal Defense in Mobile, AL...

Postby RedBirds2011 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:22 pm

flem wrote:
RedBirds2011 wrote:
As someone familiar with Louisiana, loyola new Orleans is not a bad school for a decent price. it's pretty respected in new Orleans and most Tulane people leave. And a lot there do not have a lot of debt. But if OP wants Alabama, it doesn't make sense to go there. OP if you want to go solo right out you need to think about debt. I think Bama also being the state flag and good ole boys in Bama is probably credited.


That's precisely why it's a terrible option bruh. If he wanted to stay in NO it'd be fine.


Agreed

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jcm043
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Re: Wanting to pracitce Criminal Defense in Mobile, AL...

Postby jcm043 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:29 pm

Thanks for all the info.

Next question - What sort of reach does Ole Miss offer? Do they place students in Memphis or mostly in Jackson & Mississippi?

Also with Ole Miss being in Oxford, is there much opportunity to network with lawyers, judges, etc?

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RedBirds2011
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Re: Wanting to pracitce Criminal Defense in Mobile, AL...

Postby RedBirds2011 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:44 pm

jcm043 wrote:Thanks for all the info.

Next question - What sort of reach does Ole Miss offer? Do they place students in Memphis or mostly in Jackson & Mississippi?

Also with Ole Miss being in Oxford, is there much opportunity to network with lawyers, judges, etc?


I'm confused. I thought you wanted to practice in mobile, AL? I would imagine ole miss has a good network in Mississippi but idk a huge amount about this market.

duckmoney
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Re: Wanting to pracitce Criminal Defense in Mobile, AL...

Postby duckmoney » Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:47 pm

Go to Alabama.

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romothesavior
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Re: Wanting to pracitce Criminal Defense in Mobile, AL...

Postby romothesavior » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:45 pm

duckmoney wrote:Go to Alabama.

Yeah, why is this difficult?

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JCFindley
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Re: Wanting to pracitce Criminal Defense in Mobile, AL...

Postby JCFindley » Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:36 pm

Alabama is absolutely the right answer to work within the state of Alabama.

Alabama will do better within the state than YHS for your purposes, seriously. You could get away with Vandy or perhaps Ole Miss but neither will be as well thought of in state as Bama.

Ole Miss is a good choice IF you want to work in MS. If you want to work any where else there are better choices. (Yes, it has some reach into AL but will still play second fiddle to Bama all day every day.)

Cumberland and Miss College are downright SCARY when it comes to job prospects. I have never heard of Jones and Loyola would be fine if you wanted to practice in LA but then you would be behind LSU and Tulane grads....

I am NOT a ratings freak in any form or fashion but Bama is hands down the best choice to practice in that state and frankly better than all the schools higher ranked than them for a LOT of law there.

(For God's sake, I went to Auburn for UG and it pains me to say all that but it is true.....)

JC

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flem
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Re: Wanting to pracitce Criminal Defense in Mobile, AL...

Postby flem » Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:33 am

jcm043 wrote:Thanks for all the info.

Next question - What sort of reach does Ole Miss offer? Do they place students in Memphis or mostly in Jackson & Mississippi?

Also with Ole Miss being in Oxford, is there much opportunity to network with lawyers, judges, etc?


If you want to be the next John Grisham, Ole Miss is an option. Also if you really like ridiculously hot undergrads and tailgating. Not so great for jobs n' stuff though.

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hookem7
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Re: Wanting to pracitce Criminal Defense in Mobile, AL...

Postby hookem7 » Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:29 pm

The Grove is legendary but Bama provides better football for post-tailgating, plus you will get to see hot undergrads wearing an assortment of houndstooth. Enjoy Tuscaloosa OP

Real Madrid
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Re: Wanting to pracitce Criminal Defense in Mobile, AL...

Postby Real Madrid » Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:39 pm

The grove is legendary overrated


FTFY.

But seriously, Alabama. I'm from Alabama and went to undergrad at UA, and If it were not for me wanting to get out of the south, I'd probably be going there myself. It's an underrated law school (IMO, though the new rankings may have changed that), and it dominates all the markets in a state that isn't as bad off as many others throughout the country when it comes to legal employment.

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jcm043
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Re: Wanting to pracitce Criminal Defense in Mobile, AL...

Postby jcm043 » Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:15 pm

Real Madrid wrote:
The grove is legendary overrated


FTFY.

But seriously, Alabama. I'm from Alabama and went to undergrad at UA, and If it were not for me wanting to get out of the south, I'd probably be going there myself. It's an underrated law school (IMO, though the new rankings may have changed that), and it dominates all the markets in a state that isn't as bad off as many others throughout the country when it comes to legal employment.


Thanks everyone for the input. Just took a look at the new rankings, Bama is tied 29 while Ole Miss is tied 135. Why is Ole Miss so low?? wow.

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RedBirds2011
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Re: Wanting to pracitce Criminal Defense in Mobile, AL...

Postby RedBirds2011 » Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:18 pm

jcm043 wrote:
Real Madrid wrote:
The grove is legendary overrated


FTFY.

But seriously, Alabama. I'm from Alabama and went to undergrad at UA, and If it were not for me wanting to get out of the south, I'd probably be going there myself. It's an underrated law school (IMO, though the new rankings may have changed that), and it dominates all the markets in a state that isn't as bad off as many others throughout the country when it comes to legal employment.


Thanks everyone for the input. Just took a look at the new rankings, Bama is tied 29 while Ole Miss is tied 135. Why is Ole Miss so low?? wow.


Ranking beyond the top 20 or so become very irrelevant. After that it becomes more dependent on local rep and placement.

Edit: I'll also add that, due to your career goals, ranking isn't very relevant. Alabama is best for you because you want to practice there and is the best school in the region.

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JCFindley
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Re: Wanting to pracitce Criminal Defense in Mobile, AL...

Postby JCFindley » Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:41 pm

RedBirds2011 wrote:
jcm043 wrote:
Real Madrid wrote:
The grove is legendary overrated


FTFY.

But seriously, Alabama. I'm from Alabama and went to undergrad at UA, and If it were not for me wanting to get out of the south, I'd probably be going there myself. It's an underrated law school (IMO, though the new rankings may have changed that), and it dominates all the markets in a state that isn't as bad off as many others throughout the country when it comes to legal employment.


Thanks everyone for the input. Just took a look at the new rankings, Bama is tied 29 while Ole Miss is tied 135. Why is Ole Miss so low?? wow.


Ranking beyond the top 20 or so become very irrelevant. After that it becomes more dependent on local rep and placement.

Edit: I'll also add that, due to your career goals, ranking isn't very relevant. Alabama is best for you because you want to practice there and is the best school in the region.


Yupp, had you said you really wanted to practice criminal defense in Greenwood Mississippi then the advice would probably be to go with #135 unless Bama was cheaper.... Even at that ranking Ole Miss would be the way to go for most law jobs in MS.....

JC

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20160810
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Re: Wanting to pracitce Criminal Defense in Mobile, AL...

Postby 20160810 » Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:18 pm

jcm043 wrote:I want to practice Criminal Defense in Mobile, Alabama or in Baldwin County on the Eastern shore of Mobile Bay. Which law school, regionally would give me the best education for wanting to practice crim defense?

How much experience or a plus is a law school with a Crim Defense Clinic?

I realize next to zero firms want to hire a crim defense attorney, most are solo. My starting point would be going solo and joining the indigent defenders board.

Here are my choices:

Alabama
Ole Miss
Loyola (New Orleans)
Jones
Cumberland
Miss. College

Bama & Loyola nola both have crim defense clinics.

Apply to all of these and to go whichever gives you the most money with the most reasonable stips. Hopefully it will be Bama, which is the only good school on this list. The work you want to do (small-scale work in a very backwater market) isn't the sort of gig people get from law school OCI, so it's going to be all about networking for you if you're serious about this. Begin contacting people NOW and try to work part time for a solo practitioner or small firm in the area during law school. Generally, these kinds of firms love hiring law students for $15 an hour because they'll want access to your Westlaw account (note that giving it to them counts as honest services fraud which is a crime, I'm just saying that having a student Westlaw account will make you attractive to the kinds of people you're going to want to work for).

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Re: Wanting to pracitce Criminal Defense in Mobile, AL...

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:37 pm

You claim that you want solo, and the best way to get experience doing solo would be to intern at a solo shop. I imagine that Birmingham has a lot more solo shops than Tuscaloosa, and that translates to less competition for the spots at those firms during the academic year. If Cumberland was significantly cheaper than Alabama, I would consider it, as (1) it's located in Birmingham (I think) and (2) it doesn't make sense to take on more debt than absolutely necessary if you want to open solo shop.

Other than the above, there is no real reason to go anywhere other than Alabama. So if Alabama would be cheaper for you than Cumberland after scholarship, then it would be the obvious choice even though it's located in a smaller city.




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