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TIKITEMBO
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Postby TIKITEMBO » Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:10 pm

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Last edited by TIKITEMBO on Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:45 am, edited 2 times in total.

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flem
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Re: George Mason vs. American

Postby flem » Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:11 pm

Total cost of attendance at each? GPA/LSAT? Are you 100% PI oriented (demonstrated work experience in PI)? Where are you from and where do you want to work?

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TIKITEMBO
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Re: George Mason vs. American

Postby TIKITEMBO » Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:28 pm

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The Rover
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Re: George Mason vs. American

Postby The Rover » Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:31 pm

flem wrote: GPA/LSAT?

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flem
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Re: George Mason vs. American

Postby flem » Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:33 pm

TIKITEMBO wrote:
flem wrote:Total cost of attendance at each? GPA/LSAT? Are you 100% PI oriented (demonstrated work experience in PI)? Where are you from and where do you want to work?



tflem, don't you remember our $100 bet? I am definitely PI oriented. :wink:

Lots of PI work experience/internships/skills (second language) etc. A good amount of it is law-related and direct service. Price would be sticker at both (waitlisted right now but I've been doing my due diligence). PSLF/IBR mitigates scholarships. From the mid-west and want to work in the D.C. area.

I'm familiar with the don't count on PI dance and I'm not looking for it here. I've got experience, networking abilities, and 3 years to gain even more experience. I'm not worried.


What's the cost of attendance? Look into American's LRAP. If you have to be employed by a PI organization AT graduation to qualify, that would suck. Pretty big gamble when the losing size is you're on the hook for 200K.

And since GMU doesn't have a LRAP (as you mentioned) I'd say that's out.

GPA/LSAT?

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TIKITEMBO
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Re: George Mason vs. American

Postby TIKITEMBO » Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:45 pm

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Last edited by TIKITEMBO on Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Nelson
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Re: George Mason vs. American

Postby Nelson » Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:54 pm

OP isn't going to listen, but neither of these schools are worth paying a dime for, regardless of your career goals. Full ride or don't go.

timbs4339
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Re: George Mason vs. American

Postby timbs4339 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:58 pm

TIKITEMBO wrote:
The Rover wrote:
flem wrote: GPA/LSAT?


I'll tell you both my numbers don't matter enough at all to throw me cash in any kind of way. So they really don't matter at this point as long as I get in. The school will be happy for my median to slightly above 75th G.P.A. (at both schools), but balancing out my 25th percentile LSAT with another applicant. So, I'm sure money is a wash.

Cost of attendance would be GMU: $54,352 *3 years or American ~$70,000 *3 years. So yep, a lot either way. Remember though even without LRAP, a person only pays 15% of their income over 10 years. So if you make $60,000, you pay about 69,000 over 10 years at most for example.

Gotta run some errands, but I'll be back. Thanks in advance for replies!


Also remember that they don't pay the interest on your loans for you during that time. You will have to pay that interest or it will accrue to the principal (I don't think it compounds though). That's 10-12K in interest per year for GMU and 15K-18K interest per year American. That will easily dwarf the meager payments PSLF will make for you. If you lose your job, or the program gets cut (hello Generic Republican 2012 or 2016!) or if you make enough to leave the program...good luck footing the increased bill.
Last edited by timbs4339 on Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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flem
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Re: George Mason vs. American

Postby flem » Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:59 pm

It seems to me that it is sublime idiocy at worst and a "risky gamble" at best to spend 210K and rely on a LRAP and other programs at the end of it. That shit could just disappear.

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The Rover
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Re: George Mason vs. American

Postby The Rover » Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:22 pm

TIKITEMBO wrote:
The Rover wrote:
flem wrote: GPA/LSAT?


The school will be happy for my median to slightly above 75th G.P.A. (at both schools), but balancing out my 25th percentile LSAT with another applicant.


So you have a decent GPA and a shitty LSAT? Would you be open to retaking the LSAT? It could open up doors to some better options. If I were you I would either retake or not go.

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TIKITEMBO
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Re: George Mason vs. American

Postby TIKITEMBO » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:26 pm

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TIKITEMBO
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Re: George Mason vs. American

Postby TIKITEMBO » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:33 pm

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timbs4339
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Re: George Mason vs. American

Postby timbs4339 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:15 pm

TIKITEMBO wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:
Also remember that they don't pay the interest on your loans for you during that time. You will have to pay that interest or it will accrue to the principal (I don't think it compounds though). That's 10-12K in interest per year for GMU and 15K-18K interest per year American. That will easily dwarf the meager payments PSLF will make for you. If you lose your job, or the program gets cut (hello Generic Republican 2012 or 2016!) or if you make enough to leave the program...good luck footing the increased bill.


This is incorrect, though I appreciate the good intentions. They only don't forgive your interest if you do regular IBR without the 10 year forgiveness. If you do 10 year forgiveness, then they do forgive the interest.




Alright, let's move to non-debt related stuff unless people are really familiar with the programs because I don't want to write novels here all by myself. 8) What about political reputation, employment record, balanced student body, diversity, professionalism, school focus, and rank good people?



Let's talk about those.


You misread my post. They do FORGIVE the interest. They don't PAY the interest. That is tacked on until you hit Payment 120. If you lose your job or decide to go into the private sector, you will have to pay back the interest.

http://studentaid.ed.gov/PORTALSWebApp/ ... sh/PSF.jsp

Additionally, they have ended the subsidized Stafford program and are about to let rates rise back to 6.8%, a ridiculous figure when you consider that the loans are non-dischargeable. If you think the current power in the Republican Party is at all sympathetic to the plight of students you are joking. Paul Ryan wants to roll-back IBR.

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TIKITEMBO
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Re: George Mason vs. American

Postby TIKITEMBO » Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:35 am

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Last edited by TIKITEMBO on Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:43 am, edited 2 times in total.

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romothesavior
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Re: George Mason vs. American

Postby romothesavior » Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:19 am

Even assuming IBR stays, you are making a big assumption that 1) you will get a job and 2) you can stay in PI for 10 years. You probably know your situation better than any of us do, so if you think that is some sort of guarantee, then by all means. I wouldn't even dream of doing something like that risky, but you seem determined.

As far as comparing the schools, they are essentially identical for job placement. Take a look at firms 50+/gov/PI/Fed clerk chart. They are peers:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Aik9aY0xMn8JdHZpRzRGNmpIVnFMMTJ0bXNRS0NBd3c&gid=6

They also have nearly identical 50+ firm placement, which seems to indicate that they are about equal when it comes to gov/PI placement.

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IAFG
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Re: George Mason vs. American

Postby IAFG » Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:24 am

I know plenty of well-connected woefully unemployed American grads with rock solid PI backgrounds. I strongly recommend you stay in the region where you have connections and credibility instead of plunging into a city with a shocking glut of PI oriented law grads with, I guarantee, backgrounds more impressive than yours.

rad lulz
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Re: George Mason vs. American

Postby rad lulz » Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:42 am

Fuck; neither. This sounds like a pretty miserable idea. Sublime idiocy.

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flem
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Re: George Mason vs. American

Postby flem » Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:44 am

TIKITEMBO wrote:
flem wrote:It seems to me that it is sublime idiocy at worst and a "risky gamble" at best to spend 210K and rely on a LRAP and other programs at the end of it. That shit could just disappear.


I appreciate that sentiment, but I frankly don't think you have researched much about IBR/PSLF/LRAP, and other PI forgiveness programs. These programs were passed with HUGE bi-partisan support and with a republican president. Are the democrats going to take that away? I'm guessing no.

The public 10 year forgiveness might not be used by that many yet but plenty are using IBR. With that type of congressional support, the public now using it more and more, and the economy still being crappish, I doubt it will change before the time I start taking loans out this fall and I HIGHLY doubt that the government would not do some type of grandfathering-in for those who planned on it. It'd be political suicide with all the young people who can't pay their loans right now. So, no I'm not worried.



That all may be true, but what if you get fired or laid off or something? Then you're up shit creek starting 200K in the face with no way to pay it off. And that is with the assumption you can land a qualifying PI gig in the first place.

Just go somewhere cheaper close to home. Public interest is so hard to get anyway, you're looking at two very expensive schools in (probably) the most competitive city in the country. HYS bros as well as other T14 schools including G'Town, plus GW are all ahead of you in the pecking order.

There's a huge chance you end up unemployed from these places. PI isn't easy to get, you still need to put yourself in the best position to succeed regardless of goals.

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TIKITEMBO
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Re: George Mason vs. American

Postby TIKITEMBO » Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:58 am

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Last edited by TIKITEMBO on Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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stillwater
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Re: George Mason vs. American

Postby stillwater » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:07 am

rad lulz wrote:Fuck; neither. This sounds like a pretty miserable idea. Sublime idiocy.


This.

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top30man
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Re: George Mason vs. American

Postby top30man » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:14 am

stillwater wrote:
rad lulz wrote:Fuck; neither. This sounds like a pretty miserable idea. Sublime idiocy.


This.

150k plus interest at gmu? 200k plus interest at American? That's not even close to worth it. Both of these schools has dismal prospects. As IAFG said, there is a mass glut in DC for PI people from much, much better schools. People from Georgetown struggle to get jobs in the district. How do you think American will fare in comparison?

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romothesavior
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Re: George Mason vs. American

Postby romothesavior » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:43 am

Click on the different tabs. It is fairly easy to navigate. The PI/gov/50+ firm numbers are almost identical. Then when you take out PI and gov and just look at firm 50+, they are almost identical. Hence, the two schools place similarly into PI and gov. Go to the ABA site and you can see the full report to both schools. Neither is worth a 200k gamble. Law school is as bad of an investment as TLS says.

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Samara
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Re: George Mason vs. American

Postby Samara » Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:28 am

- Barely a third of graduates at either school get desirable employment.

- Even fewer get employment that can reasonably service $150k-$200k of principle.

- What makes you think you're the special snowflake? Sure, you might be better prepared than many who come in with no PI experience, but 5.8% of the 2011 class at American worked in PI and 1.8% of the class at GMU worked in PI. Can you say with confidence that your credentials, networking, and grades will be better than 94% or 98% of your classmates?

- PSLF was created in 2007, when Congress was still running up the deficit. Five years is not long enough for a program to be entrenched. Besides, everything is on the table with the teabaggers. If Romney wins the election and Republicans win the Senate, NOTHING is safe. Even if they don't, with the federal debt, nothing is safe. Not PSLF. Not LRAP. Not IBR. "But lots of Republicans have kids in college!" Who cares? When the ax comes swinging for the federal budget, who do you think Congress will placate? Wall Street, big business, AMA, AARP, etc. or a bunch of hippies leeching off PSLF to save the lesser prairie owl?

- If you are working in the non-profit sector, then surely you are aware of the dire funding situation that the sector is in. Let's say you're lucky enough to get a job. What happens when your org loses a key source of funding and has to lay you off, or even shut down completely? You would have, at most, six weeks to find another qualifying job or you're hit with a full loan payment. And since IBR/LRAP/PSLF often doesn't even touch the principle, you're always going to have a massive payment hanging over your head if you lose your job.

If all that doesn't dissuade you from retaking or not going, then I suppose American is the way to go. American seems to place significantly more in PI and the difference in debt is irrelevant since you'll be entirely reliant on IBR/LRAP/PSLF.

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TIKITEMBO
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Re: George Mason vs. American

Postby TIKITEMBO » Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:11 pm

I'm out! 8)
Last edited by TIKITEMBO on Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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TIKITEMBO
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Re: George Mason vs. American

Postby TIKITEMBO » Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:16 pm

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Last edited by TIKITEMBO on Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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