Michigan $$ vs Georgetown $$$ vs Cornell $$

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Which school, based on Cost of Attending:

Michigan COA $158,610
29
47%
Georgetown COA $115,500
15
24%
Cornell COA $172,140
18
29%
 
Total votes: 62

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thelawyler
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Michigan $$ vs Georgetown $$$ vs Cornell $$

Postby thelawyler » Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:48 am

I'm curious what people would do between my current options.

Michigan 15,000/year | 45k total
Georgetown 35,000/year | 105k total
Cornell 15,000/year | 45k total

I will be aiming for NYC Big Law. Location: prefer NYC, other random cities (Chicago, LA, SF, Philly, Boston, DC, Seattle). But I figure probably NYC will be not only easiest, but most preferred as well. After some NYC Big Law, would like flexibility of lateraling even across the country.

Exit options out of Big Law would be great. I think I can handle the lifestyle as a single man, but who knows what my life will be like in 7 years from now so hard to say if I'll be able to stick it out for an extra 1-2 years without ruining a potential marriage or something.

Thoughts?
Last edited by thelawyler on Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:51 am, edited 3 times in total.

ahnhub
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Re: Michigan $$ vs Georgetown $$$ vs Cornell $$

Postby ahnhub » Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:54 am

These options look kinda dead even to me. I'd pick the one you just happen to like the most.

(I voted Michigan because that's what I'd do, but I'm biased.)

09042014
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Re: Michigan $$ vs Georgetown $$$ vs Cornell $$

Postby 09042014 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:04 am

1-GULC - probably worst big lawl options but you have a 2/3 ride.
2-Cornell- Same price as mich but netter fro NYC
3-Mich- cheaper by a little than cornell but worse placement than cornell.

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Killingly
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Re: Michigan $$ vs Georgetown $$$ vs Cornell $$

Postby Killingly » Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:34 am

I was choosing between Cornell and Michigan at basically equal cost. Chose Michigan purely because it felt like a better fit and I don't believe I'll be at a disadvantage in getting to NY/New England.

Choose your favorite of Michigan or Cornell, neither choice would be a bad one.

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XCanadian91
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Re: Michigan $$ vs Georgetown $$$ vs Cornell $$

Postby XCanadian91 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:43 am

thelawyler wrote:I'm curious what people would do between my current options.

Michigan 15,000/year or 45k total
Georgetown 35,000/year or 105k total
Cornell 15,000/year or 45k total

I will be aiming for NYC Big Law. Location: prefer NYC, other random cities (Chicago, LA, SF, Philly, Boston, DC, Seattle). But I figure probably NYC will be not only easiest, but most preferred as well. After some NYC Big Law, would like flexibility of lateraling even across the country.

Exit options out of Big Law would be great. I think I can handle the lifestyle as a single man, but who knows what my life will be like in 7 years from now so hard to say if I'll be able to stick it out for an extra 1-2 years without ruining a potential marriage or something.

Thoughts?


If you want NYC Big Law and aren't flexible as far as Big Law location, go to Cornell. Cornell's NYC placement is unmatched by the other options. My $.02.

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NinerFan
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Re: Michigan $$ vs Georgetown $$$ vs Cornell $$

Postby NinerFan » Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:15 am

XCanadian91 wrote:
thelawyler wrote:I'm curious what people would do between my current options.

Michigan 15,000/year or 45k total
Georgetown 35,000/year or 105k total
Cornell 15,000/year or 45k total

I will be aiming for NYC Big Law. Location: prefer NYC, other random cities (Chicago, LA, SF, Philly, Boston, DC, Seattle). But I figure probably NYC will be not only easiest, but most preferred as well. After some NYC Big Law, would like flexibility of lateraling even across the country.

Exit options out of Big Law would be great. I think I can handle the lifestyle as a single man, but who knows what my life will be like in 7 years from now so hard to say if I'll be able to stick it out for an extra 1-2 years without ruining a potential marriage or something.

Thoughts?


If you want NYC Big Law and aren't flexible as far as Big Law location, go to Cornell. Cornell's NYC placement is unmatched by the other options. My $.02.


I wonder how much of this is self-selection? Personally I'd go Michigan or Cornell. Both are good schools. Ithaca's really pretty, and Ann Arbor ain't bad. Cornell's the most expensive, so the best choice is probably Michigan unless you can get Cornell to up their offer.

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DaftAndDirect
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Re: Michigan $$ vs Georgetown $$$ vs Cornell $$

Postby DaftAndDirect » Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:52 am

Don't NYC firms basically go as deep in to a Cornell class as they do a Michigan class? People always cite Cornell's superior NYC placement without being able to really prove (either way) how much of that placement is due to selection bias.

Full disclosure: I voted Michigan.

09042014
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Re: Michigan $$ vs Georgetown $$$ vs Cornell $$

Postby 09042014 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:08 am

DaftAndDirect wrote:Don't NYC firms basically go as deep in to a Cornell class as they do a Michigan class? People always cite Cornell's superior NYC placement without being able to really prove (either way) how much of that placement is due to selection bias.

Full disclosure: I voted Michigan.


You definitely cannot look who actually ended up in NYC because of selection bias. Individual firms probably vary in how they treat Cornell and Michigan. But Cornell almost definitely has some sort of home field advantage. They have more alumni, they are sending tons more people there. How much so? Fuck if I know. I did get the feeling that some NYC firms were suspicious of people fleeing to NYC as a backup. Going to Cornell might mitigate that.

But I have to reiterate that Georgetown is probably the better bet here. There is no real indication that Georgetown is anything other than a peer to the lower t14 schools. It trails schools like Michigan by 5-10%. But there is plenty of reason to believe it is selection bias that causes the majority of that gap.

First, 40% of the class goes to DC after law school and probably more than that are trying to. DC big law is hard as fuck to get. There are plenty of people who strike out because they couldn't get DC, but they might have gotten something elsewhere. This doesn't make GULC a bad school, it makes DC a bad market for people without baller grades.

Second, GULCs part time program brings in people who aren't looking to jump into a firm. Not all of them but enough to artificially shrink their NLJ250 numbers.

Third, GULC because of the location in DC brings in people looking for gov't, policy and PI. Almost 13% of their class in 2010 did gov't. Michigans was 7%. That's the entire difference right there.


Back three years ago this board considered Georgetown and Cornell to be peers. It was mostly my T13 trolling that has caused the idea that georgetown was a worse school. It's not really that true. I think it has some problems, namely that it was way to many graduates each year. But for 60K less debt, it's the clear choice here.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: Michigan $$ vs Georgetown $$$ vs Cornell $$

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:16 am

What Desert Fox said.

Also, when did Michigan become considered to be a "better" or "preferable" school over Cornell? Lately, tls.com seems to really be pushing that Michigan is a better option than Cornell at the same price, and that simply isn't true (and hasn't been for 10+ years). The schools are -peers-. If you want NYC, and you get into Cornell and Michigan at the same price, Cornell is the obvious choice (i.e. a school that's well recognized for its ability to place graduates into firms of 100+ attorneys in the region that you want to work in vs. a peer, located in a different region, that does not send -that- many people to the region that you want to work in).

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DaftAndDirect
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Re: Michigan $$ vs Georgetown $$$ vs Cornell $$

Postby DaftAndDirect » Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:38 am

Desert Fox wrote:
DaftAndDirect wrote:Don't NYC firms basically go as deep in to a Cornell class as they do a Michigan class? People always cite Cornell's superior NYC placement without being able to really prove (either way) how much of that placement is due to selection bias.

Full disclosure: I voted Michigan.


You definitely cannot look who actually ended up in NYC because of selection bias. Individual firms probably vary in how they treat Cornell and Michigan. But Cornell almost definitely has some sort of home field advantage. They have more alumni, they are sending tons more people there. How much so? Fuck if I know. I did get the feeling that some NYC firms were suspicious of people fleeing to NYC as a backup. Going to Cornell might mitigate that.


Why not? Like I said earlier, there doesn't seem to be hard evidence denying or confirming a selection bias. Yet everyone is very quick to default to denying it, which seems odd because of TLS-wide acceptance of Cornell and Mich as peer schools.

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Doorkeeper
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Re: Michigan $$ vs Georgetown $$$ vs Cornell $$

Postby Doorkeeper » Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:53 am

COA between Michigan and Cornell is really small, and both place well into NYC. I think you should pick whichever of the two that you like better.

You need to determine if you like Georgetown enough to warrant the decrease in biglaw chances. COA is already over $100k at Georgetown, so it's not like Georgetown frees you from all of your debt. It's a 40k difference between Georgetown and Michigan.

woeisme
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Re: Michigan $$ vs Georgetown $$$ vs Cornell $$

Postby woeisme » Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:56 am

Killingly wrote:I was choosing between Cornell and Michigan at basically equal cost. Chose Michigan purely because it felt like a better fit and I don't believe I'll be at a disadvantage in getting to NY/New England.

Choose your favorite of Michigan or Cornell, neither choice would be a bad one.


Basically this. I think Killingly underestimates the difference between Cornell and Michigan's placement power in NYC, but it's still a close enough call that strong personal preference/fit can affect the calculus.

I think it's between Michigan and Cornell. All else being equal, take Cornell.

Aberzombie1892 wrote:What Desert Fox said.

Also, when did Michigan become considered to be a "better" or "preferable" school over Cornell? Lately, tls.com seems to really be pushing that Michigan is a better option than Cornell at the same price, and that simply isn't true (and hasn't been for 10+ years). The schools are -peers-. If you want NYC, and you get into Cornell and Michigan at the same price, Cornell is the obvious choice (i.e. a school that's well recognized for its ability to place graduates into firms of 100+ attorneys in the region that you want to work in vs. a peer, located in a different region, that does not send -that- many people to the region that you want to work in).


This too.

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Killingly
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Re: Michigan $$ vs Georgetown $$$ vs Cornell $$

Postby Killingly » Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:05 am

woeisme wrote:
Killingly wrote:I was choosing between Cornell and Michigan at basically equal cost. Chose Michigan purely because it felt like a better fit and I don't believe I'll be at a disadvantage in getting to NY/New England.

Choose your favorite of Michigan or Cornell, neither choice would be a bad one.


Basically this. I think Killingly underestimates the difference between Cornell and Michigan's placement power in NYC, but it's still a close enough call that personal preference/fit can affect the calculus.

I think it's between Michigan and Cornell. All else being equal, take Cornell. If all else is not equal (i.e., you, for whatever reason, feel pulled towards Mich), take Michigan.


I didn't underestimate it, not sure how you'd come to that conclusion. If my personal preference between the two had been absolutely equal, I would have actually chosen Cornell.

woeisme
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Re: Michigan $$ vs Georgetown $$$ vs Cornell $$

Postby woeisme » Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:11 am

Killingly wrote:
I didn't underestimate it, not sure how you'd come to that conclusion. If my personal preference between the two had been absolutely equal, I would have actually chosen Cornell.


Well, I said that because I thought you were saying that there's no disadvantage to choosing Michigan over Cornell for placement in the northeast. But maybe you were just saying =that the disadvantage of choosing Michigan was made up for by your personal preference for Michigan. Didn't mean to put words in your mouth ... I just misinterpreted what you were saying. Sorry!

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Killingly
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Re: Michigan $$ vs Georgetown $$$ vs Cornell $$

Postby Killingly » Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:18 am

woeisme wrote:
Killingly wrote:
I didn't underestimate it, not sure how you'd come to that conclusion. If my personal preference between the two had been absolutely equal, I would have actually chosen Cornell.


Well, I said that because I thought you were saying that there's no disadvantage to choosing Michigan over Cornell for placement in the northeast. But maybe you were just saying =that the disadvantage of choosing Michigan was made up for by your personal preference for Michigan. Didn't mean to put words in your mouth ... I just misinterpreted what you were saying. Sorry!


No worries. And you're right, I do believe there is a slight gap between the two (be it selection bias or not), but, for me, it wasn't a large enough gap to deter me from a school I liked better.

There seems to be a lot of Michigan/Cornell tension around here, but I honestly think OP can't go wrong with either school.




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