Drexel ($$$$$) vs Rutgers N ($$$) vs Brooklyn ($$)

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Mike Pib
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Drexel ($$$$$) vs Rutgers N ($$$) vs Brooklyn ($$)

Postby Mike Pib » Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:26 pm

I'm from New Jersey, and I want to practice in Philadelphia, New York City, or New Jersey, in order of preference. I am interested primarily in litigation / trial advocacy, prosecution for the government, or maybe family law or child advocacy, but I'm not dead set on that yet. I have no interest in "biglaw".

Scores: 3.1 GPA (I goofed around in undergrad) and 164 LSAT, so no top law schools for me, but I have some decent options.

Of the schools I've been accepted to my decision has come down to the following:
1) Drexel (Earle Mack) where they're giving me $30K out of the $33K tuition for three years with no catch,
2) Rutgers Newark with $12,000 scholarship package per year, contingent on maintaining a 3.0, that brings the cost to $13K/yr with in-state (same deal to Rut-Cam but Camden is a shit hole and the Rowan thing is troubling), and
3) Brooklyn Law with a $47,000 scholarship (update: for the first year, and renewable for years two and three provided I stay in the top 80%) out of 48K, but rent is still really expensive.

My realistic "reach" school is Temple, who I'll hopefully be getting a decision from this week. If I'm accepted there, I'll probably forget about the above three.

My parents have offered me a zero interest loan for the first two years of law school, which they will forgive in five years if I am actually a lawyer. I'm not bragging but that's my financial situation: I'll only be in debt for the third year's tuition.

Can you guys help me decide? If anyone else was also in the position of deciding between two or more of these schools, how did you make your decision and why did you rule out the ones that you did?
Last edited by Mike Pib on Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:58 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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superbloom
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Re: Drexel ($$$$$) vs Rutgers N ($$$) vs Brooklyn ($$)

Postby superbloom » Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:34 pm

Why do you consider Temple to be such a reach? I have similar numbers to you and got into Temple with 7.5k/year. It would be a great deal if I were in-state.If you want Temple the most, and cost isn't a factor, then go to Temple, but I had the same decision and easily chose Rutgers over Temple.

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roaringeagle
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Re: Drexel ($$$$$) vs Rutgers N ($$$) vs Brooklyn ($$)

Postby roaringeagle » Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:37 pm

Wow I've never seen that many dollar signs here! I do know some guys who did ok from Brooklyn but they had major connections/finished 1st in their class. My personal advice is go into something else, sorry.


EDIT: You have a good LSAT. Where did you apply? You should apply to the top 25-50 law schools. The law schools you picked are just crappy. Retake or re-apply.
Last edited by roaringeagle on Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mike Pib
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Re: Drexel ($$$$$) vs Rutgers N ($$$) vs Brooklyn ($$)

Postby Mike Pib » Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:39 pm

superbloom wrote:Why do you consider Temple to be such a reach? I have similar numbers to you and got into Temple with 7.5k/year. It would be a great deal if I were in-state.If you want Temple the most, and cost isn't a factor, then go to Temple, but I had the same decision and easily chose Rutgers over Temple.

Maybe because I had a juvenile criminal conviction to disclose and got rejected from some schools I thought were sure things, I feel a little extra grateful for each acceptance and a little less confident in general.

Why did you choose Rutgers over Temple?

Mike Pib
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Re: Drexel ($$$$$) vs Rutgers N ($$$) vs Brooklyn ($$)

Postby Mike Pib » Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:42 pm

roaringeagle wrote:Wow I've never seen that many dollar signs here!

($$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$)

roaringeagle wrote:I do know some guys who did ok from Brooklyn but they had major connections/finished 1st in their class. My personal advice is go into something else, sorry.

What do you mean by go into something else?

roaringeagle wrote:EDIT: You have a good LSAT. Where did you apply? You should apply to the top 25-50 law schools. The law schools you picked are just crappy. Retake or re-apply.

I was rejected by Boston U&C and George Mason, my reach schools. My GPA really sucked, and the juvenile conviction hurt too I'm sure.

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roaringeagle
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Re: Drexel ($$$$$) vs Rutgers N ($$$) vs Brooklyn ($$)

Postby roaringeagle » Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:52 pm

Mike Pib wrote:
roaringeagle wrote:Wow I've never seen that many dollar signs here!

($$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$)

roaringeagle wrote:I do know some guys who did ok from Brooklyn but they had major connections/finished 1st in their class. My personal advice is go into something else, sorry.

What do you mean by go into something else?

roaringeagle wrote:EDIT: You have a good LSAT. Where did you apply? You should apply to the top 25-50 law schools. The law schools you picked are just crappy. Retake or re-apply.

I was rejected by Boston U&C and George Mason, my reach schools. My GPA really sucked, and the juvenile conviction hurt too I'm sure.


1.Lol

2. I apologize for this, but I am not sure that law is for you. To pass the Bar you have to pass a Character and Fitness test and I do not know if with your conviction you would pass. I would talk to a very competent lawyer about this issue. After all, you don't want to go through the huge hassle of law school and then find out you can't be a lawyer.

3. My advice is to apply to ALL top 25-50 schools. You'd be very surprised what the results may be. I would re-apply for next year, after having a long talk with at least one lawyer about your conviction. It may be old enough not to hurt you, or it may screw you. Find out.

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Nelson
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Re: Drexel ($$$$$) vs Rutgers N ($$$) vs Brooklyn ($$)

Postby Nelson » Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:53 pm

roaringeagle wrote:3. My advice is to apply to ALL top 25-50 schools.

This is terrible advice.

Mike Pib
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Re: Drexel ($$$$$) vs Rutgers N ($$$) vs Brooklyn ($$)

Postby Mike Pib » Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:54 pm

I was 17 when the conviction (for computer hacking, I pled guilty and got a bit of probation and community service) happened, I'm 23 now, by the time I'm going up before the bar I'll be 26. Do you think I really have to worry about a nine year old EXPUNGED juvenile conviction then?
Last edited by Mike Pib on Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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superbloom
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Re: Drexel ($$$$$) vs Rutgers N ($$$) vs Brooklyn ($$)

Postby superbloom » Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:58 pm

As long as you disclose (and it isn't too bad) C&F issues aren't too bad. You were likely not rejected because of it.

I chose Rutgers because it was by far my most affordable option (except CWRU, which upped their offer in the final hour), has similar employment prospects to any T2, and in my worst case scenario I'm pretty sure I could have a job lined up through family in NJ. I have the same scholarship as you at Rutgers and am dead set on dropping out if I lose it.

If I were from PA I'd choose Temple in a heartbeat. As you are from NJ, and since money isn't an option, do what you feel is best. I think you're good for Temple though, assuming you didn't apply too late.

EDIT: I assumed your C&F issue was alcohol related or something. I have no idea how that could affect getting admitted to the bar.
Last edited by superbloom on Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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roaringeagle
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Re: Drexel ($$$$$) vs Rutgers N ($$$) vs Brooklyn ($$)

Postby roaringeagle » Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:59 pm

Mike Pib wrote:I was 17 when the incident happened, I'm 23 now, by the time I'm going up before the bar I'll be 26. Do you think I really have to worry about a nine year old juvenile conviction then? (It was for computer hacking)


I am not a lawyer so I cannot answer your questions. I do believe that some schools only ask for the last 5 years (if you had a conviction) so maybe there is a time limit. I would again ask a lawyer, a good one. If you need help finding a lawyer I can help you.

The guy who said applying to many schools is a mistake-Why? I had great results applying to many schools.

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superbloom
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Re: Drexel ($$$$$) vs Rutgers N ($$$) vs Brooklyn ($$)

Postby superbloom » Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:02 pm

roaringeagle wrote:
Mike Pib wrote:I was 17 when the incident happened, I'm 23 now, by the time I'm going up before the bar I'll be 26. Do you think I really have to worry about a nine year old juvenile conviction then? (It was for computer hacking)


I am not a lawyer so I cannot answer your questions. I do believe that some schools only ask for the last 5 years (if you had a conviction) so maybe there is a time limit. I would again ask a lawyer, a good one. If you need help finding a lawyer I can help you.

The guy who said applying to many schools is a mistake-Why? I had great results applying to many schools.



Because if I had to choose between U of Iowa and Rutgers at the same COA I'd take Rutgers every time. Nothing against Iowa, just a terrible school for me.

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JCFindley
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Re: Drexel ($$$$$) vs Rutgers N ($$$) vs Brooklyn ($$)

Postby JCFindley » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:30 pm

superbloom wrote:
roaringeagle wrote:
Mike Pib wrote:I was 17 when the incident happened, I'm 23 now, by the time I'm going up before the bar I'll be 26. Do you think I really have to worry about a nine year old juvenile conviction then? (It was for computer hacking)


I am not a lawyer so I cannot answer your questions. I do believe that some schools only ask for the last 5 years (if you had a conviction) so maybe there is a time limit. I would again ask a lawyer, a good one. If you need help finding a lawyer I can help you.

The guy who said applying to many schools is a mistake-Why? I had great results applying to many schools.



Because if I had to choose between U of Iowa and Rutgers at the same COA I'd take Rutgers every time. Nothing against Iowa, just a terrible school for me.


This....

I didn’t say it but it IS horrible advice. He is from NJ and wants to work in Philly, NYC or NJ

For NJ Rutgers is a FAR better choice than ASU, Indiana, Alabama, UC Davis,Iowa, Georgia, W&M, Illinois, Wisconsin, UNC, BYU, George Mason, OSU, Maryland, Arizona, UC Hastings, Colorado, Wake, Utah, Florida, American and Pepperdine…..

None of these "25-50" schools will help him get to NYC or Philly any more than going to Rutgers.... Yes, Temple will help with Philly but I am not sure Drex would....

Frankly, I think RU is a solid choice that will minimize your debt. Yes, Brooklyn might be slightly better in NYC but IMO its job placement is not worth the extra money......

bartleby
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Re: Drexel ($$$$$) vs Rutgers N ($$$) vs Brooklyn ($$)

Postby bartleby » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:40 pm

do you have a back up plan? because gunning so hard in BK with 100% knowledge that you'd drop out if you weren't top 10% or something could be an awesome play if (1) you don't 100% want to be a lawyer - who does - and (2) have an okay back up plan (accounting major, engineer)

imagine if you could get a free year, then transfer to columbia or nyu and have to pay only 2 years tuition. awesomeeeeeeeee

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Re: Drexel ($$$$$) vs Rutgers N ($$$) vs Brooklyn ($$)

Postby Mike Pib » Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:02 am

bartleby wrote:do you have a back up plan? because gunning so hard in BK with 100% knowledge that you'd drop out if you weren't top 10% or something could be an awesome play if (1) you don't 100% want to be a lawyer - who does - and (2) have an okay back up plan (accounting major, engineer)

imagine if you could get a free year, then transfer to columbia or nyu and have to pay only 2 years tuition. awesomeeeeeeeee

The chances of top ten are only one in ten... That's a terrible plan.

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flem
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Re: Drexel ($$$$$) vs Rutgers N ($$$) vs Brooklyn ($$)

Postby flem » Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:04 am

Mike Pib wrote:The chances of top ten are only one in ten... That's a terrible plan.


I like this guy.

Temple if you get in. Rutgers-N if you don't.

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Re: Drexel ($$$$$) vs Rutgers N ($$$) vs Brooklyn ($$)

Postby Mike Pib » Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:31 pm

This just in: BLS clarified that the 47k is renewable for each year as long as I remain out of the bottom 20 percent. I guess they figured, correctly, that my hesitance to commit was based on competition and cost.

I like those odds, and I like free tuition, although rent in Brooklyn is still astronomical. Should this be a game changer? I'm worried about how brutally competitive the NYC legal job market is, will Brooklyn give me opportunities in NJ or Philly too?
Last edited by Mike Pib on Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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superbloom
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Re: Drexel ($$$$$) vs Rutgers N ($$$) vs Brooklyn ($$)

Postby superbloom » Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:39 pm

Wow, guess I should've applied to Brooklyn.

bartleby
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Re: Drexel ($$$$$) vs Rutgers N ($$$) vs Brooklyn ($$)

Postby bartleby » Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:04 pm

Mike Pib wrote:This just in: BLS clarified that the 47k is renewable for each year as long as I remain out of the bottom 20 percent. I guess they figured, correctly, that my hesitance to commit was based on competition and cost.

I like those odds, and I like free tuition, although rent in Brooklyn is still astronomical. Should this be a game changer? I'm worried about how brutally competitive the NYC legal job market is, will Brooklyn give me opportunities in NJ or Philly too?


Um yes this is a game changer. But for your sake, please read the scholarship terms.

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Nova
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Re: Drexel ($$$$$) vs Rutgers N ($$$) vs Brooklyn ($$)

Postby Nova » Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:15 pm

Mike Pib wrote:I was 17 when the conviction (for computer hacking, I pled guilty and got a bit of probation and community service) happened, I'm 23 now, by the time I'm going up before the bar I'll be 26. Do you think I really have to worry about a nine year old EXPUNGED juvenile conviction then?


Dont listen to the person saying you are going to have trouble passing C&F because of this. I have drug charges as an adult and Im on 3/4 scholarship at a T20. Do you really think they would throw that kind of money at me if they thought it was going to be an issue? As long as you fully disclosed it, you will be ok.

And dont let anyone tell you that law is not for you. They dont know you. Where ever you choose, good luck.

Also, consider retaking and reapplying.

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Re: Drexel ($$$$$) vs Rutgers N ($$$) vs Brooklyn ($$)

Postby Tadatsune » Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:21 pm

Also, consider retaking and reapplying.


If there is any chance of raising your LSAT, I'd be tempted to do this and shoot for $$$ at Temple.

Mike Pib
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Re: Drexel ($$$$$) vs Rutgers N ($$$) vs Brooklyn ($$)

Postby Mike Pib » Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:52 pm

Tadatsune wrote:
Also, consider retaking and reapplying.


If there is any chance of raising your LSAT, I'd be tempted to do this and shoot for $$$ at Temple.


There's very little chance of raising my LSAT. I'm dreadful at the logic games section and I'll never do any better than the 164 which was an unexpected surprise, and I don't have a career now so I don't want to wait another year.

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skers
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Re: Drexel ($$$$$) vs Rutgers N ($$$) vs Brooklyn ($$)

Postby skers » Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:14 pm

Mike Pib wrote:
Tadatsune wrote:
Also, consider retaking and reapplying.


If there is any chance of raising your LSAT, I'd be tempted to do this and shoot for $$$ at Temple.


I don't have a career now.



Unfortunately, the schools you're looking at now give you a 50/50 chance of changing this.

bartleby
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Re: Drexel ($$$$$) vs Rutgers N ($$$) vs Brooklyn ($$)

Postby bartleby » Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:34 pm

A lot of people (including me) would say wait a year, blah blah blah, but that's a lot of hindsight from own experiences.

Most applicants are applying because they don't want to wait a year, don't want to retake the LSAT, and don't have shit to do for a full year.

There needs to be some middle ground...MTal...

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JCFindley
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Re: Drexel ($$$$$) vs Rutgers N ($$$) vs Brooklyn ($$)

Postby JCFindley » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:22 pm

Mike Pib wrote:This just in: BLS clarified that the 47k is renewable for each year as long as I remain out of the bottom 20 percent. I guess they figured, correctly, that my hesitance to commit was based on competition and cost.

I like those odds, and I like free tuition, although rent in Brooklyn is still astronomical. Should this be a game changer? I'm worried about how brutally competitive the NYC legal job market is, will Brooklyn give me opportunities in NJ or Philly too?


Brooklyn will improve your odds a bit in NYC, but Rutgers>>>>>>Brooklyn in NJ. I have no idea about Philly....

But then, if Brooklyn is cheaper than Rutgers.....

Mike Pib
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Re: Drexel ($$$$$) vs Rutgers N ($$$) vs Brooklyn ($$)

Postby Mike Pib » Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:12 pm

This just in: Rutgers Camden upgraded my scholarship to a full ride. I still have no intention of going there (because it's Camden, yuck), but it goes to show, the longer you wait to put down your deposit the more money they'll throw at you.




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