Penn (full ride) vs. Columbia ($50k) vs. NYU (aid is pending Forum

[Doorkeeper]

I would say take Penn unless you get a Butler (half tuition) at Columbia or 90-120k+ at NYU.

[crumpetsandtea]

Absolutely take Penn.

[Xifeng]

Absolutely take Penn.

I agree that you'd need at least 90k from CCN to make turning down Penn acceptable.

[Bronck]

I would say take Penn unless you get a Butler (half tuition) at Columbia or 90-120k+ at NYU.

This sounds about right to me.

[Dany]

Wouldn't half tuition at CLS still be like $156,000 in debt (not even taking into account tuition increases)? Still crazy to take that over Penn.

[Stifler]

Is Penn truly a no-brainer?

Yes.

[NinerFan]

I think you should factor in money, but it's about more than money. Is this scholarship dependent on grades? If so, that is something you should consider. Because i know of students losing scholarships because they could not maintain certain grades. Also, I think you should really go to a school that makes you happy. If you only choose a school because of finances, you may not do as well because you are not as happy. That should be factored in. I also want to go to law school in New York, so I would be leaning towards NYC law schools. What I think you should do is try your best to negotiate the costs down at NYU.

Law school is law school. I very much doubt that his experience will be very different between Penn, CLS, and NYU, and if "happiness" is worth $100k to you, you either need to be a millionaire or get over yourself. Penn has great employment statistics, will leave OP with very little debt, and probably has the same type of students that CLS/NYU have, and that should make OP happy. He has his whole life to live in NYC, and Penn can get him there without crushing debt.

He'd be wise to negotiate with NYU, but barring any extremely surprising generosity on their part, he'd be foolish not to choose Penn.

Law school is NOT law school. There are CLEAR differences. Some people are not just as happy in certain areas. For example, I have classmates who dropped out of undergrad/law school because of their surroundings. Also, if what your saying truly was the case, the poster would not have made this thread and would have taken Penn. He wants to take Columbia or NYU and there's nothing wrong with that. However, I do understand where you are coming from, but debt should not be the only thing that should be considered. I read on this board domes of times where posters pick Harvard over a full ride at NYU. Debt is just one factor.

People who got into NYU probably got into UPenn. Vice versa. The student bodies are not going to differ all that much. I'm sure OP will find some people they can get along with within the Upenn student body.

[dixiecupdrinking]

If you are really going to do public interest, then you should keep in mind that the amount you pay back is what matters, not how much you borrow. LRAPs matter.

That said, that much money probably means you have to just go to Penn. Even if you follow through with public interest, not having big debts means not having to worry for ten years about keeping your job, not becoming ineligible for LRAP for whatever reason (assets, spousal income, etc.), and so on. And if you do decide to go work at Skadden (I know you sound determined not to but still, it happens more often than not) you will be thrilled not to have loans so you can put a lot of money in the bank and keep your career options open from day one.

[Veyron]

If you are really going to do public interest, then you should keep in mind that the amount you pay back is what matters, not how much you borrow. LRAPs matter.

That said, that much money probably means you have to just go to Penn. Even if you follow through with public interest, not having big debts means not having to worry for ten years about keeping your job, not becoming ineligible for LRAP for whatever reason (assets, spousal income, etc.), and so on. And if you do decide to go work at Skadden (I know you sound determined not to but still, it happens more often than not) you will be thrilled not to have loans so you can put a lot of money in the bank and keep your career options open from day one.

The other thing, of course, is that you still have to pay debt with LRAP, just not as much. And Penn doesn't require you to stay in PI for 3 consecutive years like NYU does to get LRAP so you have that security as well.

[thelawyler]

Penn seems to be the clear winner here, but see if NYU/Columbia will throw money at you.

[Tadatsune]

Short and sweet. What do I do? I had my heart set on living in NYC, but I just learned of Penn's full ride offer and I only have 2 days to decide. I will call Columbia and NYU to re-negotiate, but I would have to take out loans to pay for any amount of uncovered tuition, and I am planning to enter non-lucrative legal areas (AKA public defense work, education policy, and the like - I'm not gonna be looking for a job at Skadden).

Thoughts? Is Penn truly a no-brainer?

You can live in NYC after you graduate from Penn.

[dingbat]

I think you should factor in money, but it's about more than money. Is this scholarship dependent on grades? If so, that is something you should consider. Because i know of students losing scholarships because they could not maintain certain grades. Also, I think you should really go to a school that makes you happy. If you only choose a school because of finances, you may not do as well because you are not as happy. That should be factored in. I also want to go to law school in New York, so I would be leaning towards NYC law schools. What I think you should do is try your best to negotiate the costs down at NYU.

You're either rich or naive.
Penn is the obvious choice unless OP is very well off.
The cost difference is easily double what the average family makes in a year.

Seriously, go to Penn

[Fiddler08]

Wouldn't half tuition at CLS still be like $156,000 in debt (not even taking into account tuition increases)? Still crazy to take that over Penn.

It's not has if OP will have no debt if he takes the Penn scholly. He'll still have to pay for COL expenses....

[Dany]

Wouldn't half tuition at CLS still be like $156,000 in debt (not even taking into account tuition increases)? Still crazy to take that over Penn.

It's not has if OP will have no debt if he takes the Penn scholly. He'll still have to pay for COL expenses....

Duh? It would still be $156,000 v. like $75k-ish. That's still crazy to me. Columbia isn't worth $80k more than Penn.

[dixiecupdrinking]

If you are really going to do public interest, then you should keep in mind that the amount you pay back is what matters, not how much you borrow. LRAPs matter.

That said, that much money probably means you have to just go to Penn. Even if you follow through with public interest, not having big debts means not having to worry for ten years about keeping your job, not becoming ineligible for LRAP for whatever reason (assets, spousal income, etc.), and so on. And if you do decide to go work at Skadden (I know you sound determined not to but still, it happens more often than not) you will be thrilled not to have loans so you can put a lot of money in the bank and keep your career options open from day one.

The other thing, of course, is that you still have to pay debt with LRAP, just not as much. And Penn doesn't require you to stay in PI for 3 consecutive years like NYU does to get LRAP so you have that security as well.

Right, but even with a full ride it sounds like OP will have enough debt that LRAP may come into play... gotta figure $50k or so just for COL loans. Once you hit whatever that threshold is where LRAP is preferable to making normal payments, it doesn't matter how much you borrow (provided you stay in the program until full discharge, which, of course, is a huge caveat).

Anyway, I certainly don't advocate passing up that much guaranteed money upfront for a highly-contingent promise to get repaid somewhat less money later, especially for schools that are essentially equal. I just wanted to underscore that the finances are a bit more complicated than some have suggested.

[enzo66]

Let me refine my question: What amount of money should I need to see from NYU or CLS before I would even consider turning down Penn's full ride?

Probably more than 100k. If the difference between the schools is 15k/year or less (including the difference in cost of living) you could start considering NYU/CLS. Personally I would take Penn unless the difference was 10k/year or less.

+1