Gulc (probably sticker) vs GW (75k scholarship) EDIT-now 96k

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bbalcrzy23
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Gulc (probably sticker) vs GW (75k scholarship) EDIT-now 96k

Postby bbalcrzy23 » Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:18 pm

Mechanical engineer with work experience. Plans to do IP Law ( biglaw or market paying boutique, probably more of the litigation and counseling side). Also accepted to NU, but would prefer DC because of family.

Just received 75k offer from GW today, difficult to pass up. I'm going to show it to Georgetown, think they will match or at least offer something?

Thanks in advance for your advice.

EDIT: Offer was increased to $96K. I can't fathom giving up that much money to go to Georgetown. Any thoughts?
Last edited by bbalcrzy23 on Tue May 01, 2012 11:15 pm, edited 17 times in total.

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El_Gallo
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Re: Gulc (probably sticker) vs GW (75k total)

Postby El_Gallo » Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:36 pm

Tough call. With your IP credentials I would lean towards GW. They are known as an IP powerhouse and 75g is nothing to scoff at.

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Chucky21
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Re: Gulc (probably sticker) vs GW (75k total)

Postby Chucky21 » Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:07 pm

GULC is the best school in DC, you don't want to pass that up.

bbalcrzy23
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Re: Gulc (probably sticker) vs GW (75k total)

Postby bbalcrzy23 » Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:22 pm

Chucky21 wrote:GULC is the best school in DC, you don't want to pass that up.


Valid point but would you mind expanding on that?

I feel the same way, I'm just worried it may be the prestige hunger I've developed since finding TLS.

If the primary goal is to acquire a market paying position upon graduation, is there a big difference between Gtown and GW, in DC? And if that difference is marginal, 75k + interest is a big deal.

I've run the numbers and even with best case scenario of hitting market paying (biglaw), $260k in debt still sucks.

I feel like at GW I may regret passing on gtown (a t14). Part of me says that's a valid concern, part says that's shallow 0L meaningless shyza.

09042014
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Re: Gulc (probably sticker) vs GW (75k total)

Postby 09042014 » Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:25 pm

I'd lean towards GWU because you are an ME with WE.

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Tadatsune
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Re: Gulc (probably sticker) vs GW (75k total)

Postby Tadatsune » Sat Apr 21, 2012 9:00 pm

Using TLS's favorite crude biglaw approximation (250+ Firms + Fed Clerkships):

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub ... Bd3c&gid=3

You are looking at a ~13.5% difference between Gtown (44%) and GW (30.5%).

http://www.law.gwu.edu/Careers/prospect ... stics.aspx

If my calculations are correct, GW's numbers for c/o 2011 are an ugly 23%. I don't have Gtown's numbers to compare.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... pUVE#gid=0

This puts GULC's 5 year NLJ250 average at 42%, with the caveat that last year was down around 31%. Here, I lack the GW numbers to compare.

----------------

Some thoughts:

Gtown at sticker is scary (~18% no long-term employment for c/o 2010).

GW is also scary (26% no long-term employment for same year). Looking at class of 2011, a quick compasison leave us with 421/518 with long-tem, JD required jobs, or 19% unemployment (though this figure may not use the same methodology as the previous one, since I did it myself.)

A caveat might be that both these schools seem to send a decent quantity of people into gov't. That might account for some of the lower biglaw numbers. (Of course, the feds aren't supposed to be hiring now, so...)

Usually I'd say stay away from GW, but my gut feeling is that IP + 75k changes the equation.
GW is known for IP, and if anyone is getting jobs out of GW it's probably the IP kids, and 75k would help give you some insurance.

I vote GW, but you'll probably want a second opinion. This is a hard one.

bbalcrzy23
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Re: Gulc (probably sticker) vs GW (75k total)

Postby bbalcrzy23 » Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:07 am

Tadatsune wrote:Using TLS's favorite crude biglaw approximation (250+ Firms + Fed Clerkships):

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub ... Bd3c&gid=3

You are looking at a ~13.5% difference between Gtown (44%) and GW (30.5%).

http://www.law.gwu.edu/Careers/prospect ... stics.aspx

If my calculations are correct, GW's numbers for c/o 2011 are an ugly 23%. I don't have Gtown's numbers to compare.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... pUVE#gid=0

This puts GULC's 5 year NLJ250 average at 42%, with the caveat that last year was down around 31%. Here, I lack the GW numbers to compare.

----------------

Some thoughts:

Gtown at sticker is scary (~18% no long-term employment for c/o 2010).

GW is also scary (26% no long-term employment for same year). Looking at class of 2011, a quick compasison leave us with 421/518 with long-tem, JD required jobs, or 19% unemployment (though this figure may not use the same methodology as the previous one, since I did it myself.)

A caveat might be that both these schools seem to send a decent quantity of people into gov't. That might account for some of the lower biglaw numbers. (Of course, the feds aren't supposed to be hiring now, so...)

Usually I'd say stay away from GW, but my gut feeling is that IP + 75k changes the equation.
GW is known for IP, and if anyone is getting jobs out of GW it's probably the IP kids, and 75k would help give you some insurance.

I vote GW, but you'll probably want a second opinion. This is a hard one.


Thanks for all the info. I'm pretty surprised by the poll results thus far; thought there would be way more pro-GW because of IP focus.

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bk1
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Re: Gulc (probably sticker) vs GW (75k total)

Postby bk1 » Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:12 am

bbalcrzy23 wrote:Thanks for all the info. I'm pretty surprised by the poll results thus far; thought there would be way more pro-GW because of IP focus.


I don't think TLSers have enough knowledge regarding IP hiring to give you anything more than an uneducated guess. I know I sure don't.

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Tadatsune
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Re: Gulc (probably sticker) vs GW (75k total)

Postby Tadatsune » Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:18 am

bk1 wrote:
bbalcrzy23 wrote:Thanks for all the info. I'm pretty surprised by the poll results thus far; thought there would be way more pro-GW because of IP focus.


I don't think TLSers have enough knowledge regarding IP hiring to give you anything more than an uneducated guess. I know I sure don't.


Ditto.

Seriously, talk to some lawyers, or at least some IP-type people. There is an "ask-a-law-student" forum, you know.

JasonR
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Re: Gulc (probably sticker) vs GW (75k total)

Postby JasonR » Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:08 pm

It doesn't seem to have confused anyone in the thread yet, but your thread title makes it look like you're possibly going to pay sticker at GULC but only $75K total at GW. You should edit it and label either both in terms of scholly amounts or both in terms of cost of attendance.

bbalcrzy23
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Re: Gulc (probably sticker) vs GW (75k total)

Postby bbalcrzy23 » Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:36 pm

JasonR wrote:It doesn't seem to have confused anyone in the thread yet, but your thread title makes it look like you're possibly going to pay sticker at GULC but only $75K total at GW. You should edit it and label either both in terms of scholly amounts or both in terms of cost of attendance.


Fixed, thanks.

bbalcrzy23
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Re: Gulc (probably sticker) vs GW (75k scholarship)

Postby bbalcrzy23 » Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:06 pm

OP here.

Sent request for money to Georgetown two weeks ago and haven't heard anything yet.

Seat deposit is due at the end of the week. I will probably send another email tomorrow and call them with an update to my situation - GW $75k and NU acceptance.

Also, NU is going to give final decision on financial aid by Friday.

Do I lose all leverage with Georgetown after I pay my seat deposit there?

Additionally, I know you can pay seat deposits at multiple schools but what if there is a scholarship attached? GW is demanding a signed intent to enroll form this week. Sounds unethical to accept that and subsequently back out. What's the general consensus on this? A few days to make a decision like this isn't easy.

Thanks to everyone who has offered their advice. I hope to offer back some value down the road.

chaoticreassembly
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Re: Gulc (probably sticker) vs GW (75k scholarship)

Postby chaoticreassembly » Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:12 pm

I certainly hope it's not unethical. As a professional procrastinator, I waited until deadline to submit all my applications. Since the deadline for GW was later than most, I received other acceptances earlier. I was accepted at William & Mary, confirmed my intent to enroll (well, I chose "hold my seat" rather than "I am definitely enrolling), then was accepted by Fordham, paid the seat deposit, and 3 days later got into GW. I intend to go.

You shouldn't feel obligated to attend a law school because you paid $4-500 dollars or confirmed a desire to have your seat held. This determines your future. It's a life-changing decision that is ultimately paramount to concerns regarding etiquette.

bbalcrzy23
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Re: Gulc (probably sticker) vs GW (75k scholarship)

Postby bbalcrzy23 » Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:07 pm

chaoticreassembly wrote:I certainly hope it's not unethical. As a professional procrastinator, I waited until deadline to submit all my applications. Since the deadline for GW was later than most, I received other acceptances earlier. I was accepted at William & Mary, confirmed my intent to enroll (well, I chose "hold my seat" rather than "I am definitely enrolling), then was accepted by Fordham, paid the seat deposit, and 3 days later got into GW. I intend to go.

You shouldn't feel obligated to attend a law school because you paid $4-500 dollars or confirmed a desire to have your seat held. This determines your future. It's a life-changing decision that is ultimately paramount to concerns regarding etiquette.


I wasn't sure if the contract was binding. After giving it a second look, I don't think it is. It is simply an "intent to enroll."

bbalcrzy23
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Re: Gulc (probably sticker) vs GW (75k scholarship)

Postby bbalcrzy23 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:11 am

Offer was increased to $96K. I can't fathom giving up $96K + interest for Georgetown. Any thoughts?

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Doorkeeper
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Re: Gulc (probably sticker) vs GW (75k scholarship)

Postby Doorkeeper » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:26 am

bbalcrzy23 wrote:Offer was increased to $96K. I can't fathom giving up $96K + interest for Georgetown. Any thoughts?

Have you tried to negotiate with Georgetown?

1) Try to negotiate.
2) If they don't give you anything, go GW.

woeisme
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Re: Gulc (probably sticker) vs GW (75k scholarship)

Postby woeisme » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:29 am

I'd write GULC and say that its your first choice but that you can't attend without financial aid in light of the 96k scholly at GWU. Hopefully they'll offer something. If they do, re-evaluate. But without any money and given your credentials and goals, GWU with that kind of money is probably a good choice. Choosing GULC even over GWU here wouldn't be crazy though, but it's probably not what most people would do.

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Tadatsune
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Re: Gulc (probably sticker) vs GW (75k scholarship)

Postby Tadatsune » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:32 am

Doorkeeper wrote:
bbalcrzy23 wrote:Offer was increased to $96K. I can't fathom giving up $96K + interest for Georgetown. Any thoughts?

Have you tried to negotiate with Georgetown?

1) Try to negotiate.
2) If they don't give you anything, go GW.


96k is a real good reason to pick GW.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Gulc (probably sticker) vs GW (75k scholarship)

Postby CanadianWolf » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:34 am

1) GWU with $96,000.
2) GW with $75,000.
3) Georgetown.

bbalcrzy23
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Re: Gulc (probably sticker) vs GW (96k scholarship)

Postby bbalcrzy23 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:41 am

Thanks for the replies thus far.

Yes I have actively been negotiating with Georgetown. They keep telling me they are out of money. I have a feeling things will change after seat deposits are due next week, but who knows.

I'm just trying to qualify what I am giving up by not going to Georgetown.
-T14 prestige? (on my resume for my entire career)
-national job placement?
-better placement into IP litigation?
-do partnership chances change?

woeisme
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Re: Gulc (probably sticker) vs GW (96k scholarship)

Postby woeisme » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:45 am

bbalcrzy23 wrote:Thanks for the replies thus far.

Yes I have actively been negotiating with Georgetown. They keep telling me they are out of money. I have a feeling things will change after seat deposits are due next week, but who knows.

I'm just trying to qualify what I am giving up by not going to Georgetown.
-T14 prestige? (on my resume for my entire career)
-national job placement?
-better placement into IP litigation?
-do partnership chances change?


The thing is that you're IPsecure... so all the benefits for attending a T14 are less meaningful for you. I mean they are still there for sure, but you already have a leg up with regard to the job search. No idea about partnership chances. I'm not sure that this really is affected though.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Gulc (probably sticker) vs GW (75k scholarship)

Postby CanadianWolf » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:47 am

What you give up by attending GWU with a large scholarship is the stress that accompanies high debt.

bbalcrzy23
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Re: Gulc (probably sticker) vs GW (75k scholarship)

Postby bbalcrzy23 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:02 am

CanadianWolf wrote:What you give up by attending GWU with a large scholarship is the stress that accompanies high debt.


Totally agree. I am strongly strongly leaning towards GWU. Just wanted to get some outside advice.

Graduating with relatively no debt provides an incalculable amount of freedom.

seb15
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Re: Gulc (probably sticker) vs GW (75k scholarship)

Postby seb15 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:37 pm

Hi,

I'm in virtually the same situation as you, with the same concerns. ONly that I am not shooting for IP but international law. Both have great International programs, though I think GULC has a better program (and presumably I'd be in the Global Law Scholars program there). Having said that, the idea of a massive debt load post graduation is frightening.




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